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Metae corys not doing well.


411fishkeeping
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Hello Co-op friends,

Yesterday I purchased my first corys, Metae, from my local Pet Supermarket. I have been in the hobby for many years, but I have never had corys. I believe that they had come in that day, so I didn't want to get them for that reason. However, I bought the 7 that they had and got them home into a 20 gallon with a bristle nose pleco and java moss. Water parameters are 0 Ammonia/Nitrite, ~20 ppm Nitrate, 7.0 pH, 77 degree water temp. When I got up this morning to go to work, I saw that one of the 7 wasn't looking as good as the others. Sadlty, it had passed by the time I returned home. I was able to take it back to the store, which I did in a hurry, but when I came back home from that trip, I realized another one looked like it was also on it's way out. In the brief time it took me to bag the deceased cory, I noticed that it appeared to have some type of bruise on its lower side, but I did not take too much time to exam it unfortunately. It appears that another is now developing the same issue. Upon further observation, the affected cory will swim to the surface for a gulp of air from time to time. I have a sponge filter with an air stone and an internal canister disturbing the water surface, so oxygenation should be good. The other five seem to be doing well swimming around the tank and eating blood worms. If any one has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it as I would rather have the fish than my money back. Pet Supermarket does guarantee fish for 7 days, but I just want these corys!

With Gratitude,

411fishkeeping

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Edited by 411fishkeeping
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I can't say for certain but I think that gravel / substrate is going to be an issue for them, it looks pretty sharp.  Can you show the full tank so we can see what's going on with filtration and decor?

Please add an airstone for oxygenation if you don't already have one.  The temperature for them would be 72-74 preferably. (21-23C)

As far as the fin issues, stuff I'm seeing I would treat for bacterial right now and potentially add some salt.  I just did this for mine and I did the level 2 treatment for mine.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/aquarium-salt-for-sick-fish

I'll grab a photo of my substrate and try to clarify on how it could be causing damage, but I don't think that's the whole story here.

EDIT:
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This is seachem flourite dark and it's about as "sharp" as I would say is advisable for corys.  It's a very soft material in general, it's a clay based product.  It isn't hard in the sense of sturdy / stiff and they tend to do ok with it.  They don't like it, but they do ok with it.  Moreso, the edges are a blunt edge as opposed to a thin/fine/sharp edge.

Sand is advisable, fine substrate in particular.  The stuff I see in your tank looks like small gravel size pieces of lava rock.  If that's what it is, then I think it's very very sharp stuff and will very likely cause cuts and injuries long term or cut their barbels.

Edited by nabokovfan87
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Thank you for taking the time to write your reply. I have a sponge filter with an air stone and an internal canister disturbing the water surface, so oxygenation should be good. They are on Eco Complete substrate. I think the one that passed and the one pictured may have sustained some type of internal injury in shipping or transit to my tank, but it’s hard to say. The Cory that passed appeared to have some type of internal bruising or bleeding as a dark spot was evident on its side when I removed it. I unfortunately did not photograph it. I considered treating with salt, but I decided not to because the fish already appears to be stressed due to travel I am sure. The fin issues don’t appear to be the main source of the ailment, so I would consider that a secondary issue to the wound on its side. Thanks again for the insight and recommendations, it’s a tough call for sure.

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The store did not say anything about them when I purchased them, other than that they had arrived that same day. Yes, they all seemed fine in the store from what I could tell, but I did not spend too much time examining each one. I have purchased some good fish there before, so it’s fair to say I did not do my due diligence. They all appeared fine when I got them home. In the morning the one that passed had notably muted colors compared to the others, similar to the one pictured. You can see the difference in color in the pictures.

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The red reminds me of Septicemia. I believe this is treated with something like Maracyn or Maracyn 2. 

On 7/28/2022 at 12:17 AM, 411fishkeeping said:

In the morning the one that passed had notably muted colors compared to the others, similar to the one pictured. You can see the difference in color in the pictures.

Muted colors is typical of a stressed and ill fish. 

Another note but I would not worry about corydoras gulping for air. This is a normal thing that all corydoras do, but I do not think it is in any way connected to the illness at hand.

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On 7/28/2022 at 2:17 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

The store did not say anything about them when I purchased them, other than that they had arrived that same day. Yes, they all seemed fine in the store from what I could tell, but I did not spend too much time examining each one. I have purchased some good fish there before, so it’s fair to say I did not do my due diligence. They all appeared fine when I got them home. In the morning the one that passed had notably muted colors compared to the others, similar to the one pictured. You can see the difference in color in the pictures.

Have they been eating any of the food that you've given them.. They should be fine now to start using medication if you've got any.

Hopefully someone more experienced in keeping Corys can tune in

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On 7/27/2022 at 11:20 PM, FinalFins said:

Another note but I would not worry about corydoras gulping for air. This is a normal thing that all corydoras do, but I do not think it is in any way connected to the illness at hand.

Thank you for clarifying this. I think that the cory pictured still has a little more life left than the one that passed, as I did not notice said behavior in the deceased Cory.

On 7/27/2022 at 11:24 PM, anitstuk said:

Have they been eating any of the food that you've given them.

Yes. The smaller, more lively ones ate up some blood worms. The larger one and the sick one did not eat.

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On 7/27/2022 at 11:20 PM, FinalFins said:

The red reminds me of Septicemia.

Seems like it is extremely fast acting. Of course, if it is a viral infection, the stress of travel would have compromised their immune system enough to cause an infection, but it seems to be killing them in about 12 hours. I will know what the prognosis is on the Cory pictured in the morning and update this post accordingly. Thank you for your input.

On 7/27/2022 at 11:24 PM, anitstuk said:

Hopefully someone more experienced in keeping Corys can tune in

I am hoping so!! For their sake!!

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On 7/27/2022 at 9:05 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

The Cory that passed appeared to have some type of internal bruising or bleeding as a dark spot was evident on its side when I removed it.

Epsom salt might be beneficial here.  I would proceed with bacterial treatment (Maracyn or Erythromycin).  Potentially they got jostled in shipping or something?  Did the bag they were moved in have a corner where they could get trapped in and crushed accidentally?

Essentially they were shipped to the store (stressed) and very likely had some damage in shipping.  They may or may not have been added to the store's tank and had to adapt ever so slightly yet again.  Then they were taken to your tank and had to acclimate again.  It's a lot of movement and stress in a very short time, that is one explanation for a few losses.  The redness. sores, and damage you're seeing I think you can view it as shipping issues and your best bet is to try to treat illness that could be caused by that type of damage.  If you see a fuzz (like a cottonball) then you're looking more towards fungal as well as bacterial issues.  For now, I would suggest clean water, lots of air, good temperature, and bacterial meds.  Epsom salt baths would be an added help, but not required. If you do go down that route, I would simply suggest doing a lot of research prior to doing so.  Any signs of stress (discomfort or lack of breathing), immediately put them back in the tank with lots of air.

On 7/27/2022 at 9:05 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

I have a sponge filter with an air stone and an internal canister disturbing the water surface, so oxygenation should be good.

Sounds good.  The easiest way to tell if it is an issue is prolonged very rabid gill plate movement and redness.  I don't see that, so it's a good sign.

On 7/27/2022 at 9:05 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

They are on Eco Complete substrate.

So weird!  I would think they would be ok, as long as the substrate is not leeching any ammonia causing burning as they are mostly spending time on the bottom.  As long as the substrate does not feel sharp to your fingers when you pass your hand through it, I would think it's acceptable. I have had mine on the fluval stratum.  Trick of the photo I guess, it looked really sharp in some of the photos!

Edited by nabokovfan87
random large gap.
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On 7/27/2022 at 9:05 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

I considered treating with salt, but I decided not to because the fish already appears to be stressed due to travel I am sure.

The salt (normal aquarium salt) will help them with air exchange and the wounds and stuff.  It gives them a little bit of minerals in the water as well to help with recovery. 

from the blog post:

Quote

1 Tbsp Salt per 3 Gallons of Water

Add 1 tablespoon (Tbsp) of salt per 3 gallons of water. You can pour the salt directly into the aquarium or hospital tank, but some people like to dissolve the salt in a small cup of water first. This level of salt is like using Neosporin topical ointment for a small cut (in other words, it’s not very strong). It’s used to fight mild cases of bacterial and fungal infection. Plus, it gently irritates the fish’s slime coat, causing the fish to make more beneficial mucus that can block some parasites and microorganisms from reaching its body.

Can I Use Salt for Fish in Quarantine?

Yes, you can treat new fish using the level 1 low salt dosage for 2 weeks. This solution should eradicate roughly 60% of potential illnesses. You can also use this technique for healing any fish that got beat up and needs some solitary recovery time in a hospital tank.

 

Edited by nabokovfan87
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On 7/28/2022 at 2:32 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

Thank you for clarifying this. I think that the cory pictured still has a little more life left than the one that passed, as I did not notice said behavior in the deceased Cory.

Yes. The smaller, more lively ones ate up some blood worms. The larger one and the sick one did not eat.

Hopefully they don't have to go too long without food. Fingers crossed!

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On 7/28/2022 at 6:46 AM, Colu said:

It's possible they have red blotch disease the recommended treatment is a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment such as kanaplex or maracyn2

Thank you for the response and insight. Unfortunately, the cory in question and the second of the 7 did not make it through the night. Out the group 3 were larger and 4 were smaller, and within each group they were approximately the same size. Two of the larger have passed, and the last remaining larger cory is starting to show symptoms like the first two. At least now I have a good picture of their final state as I did not photograph the first. Could this still be red blotch? -Regards 

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On 7/28/2022 at 12:42 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would think they would be ok, as long as the substrate is not leeching any ammonia causing burning as they are mostly spending time on the bottom.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I thought maybe it was Ammonia at first, but it tested 0 on API test drops.

On 7/28/2022 at 12:42 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

If you see a fuzz (like a cottonball) then you're looking more towards fungal as well as bacterial issues.  For now, I would suggest clean water, lots of air, good temperature, and bacterial meds.

No fuzz, just the eventual what I would call internal hemorrhage. I appreciate it!

Edited by 411fishkeeping
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Sorry I didn’t read all the post. I think the fish was roughly treated. The spine on the dorsal is broke. They look fragile but they are not easy to break. Having been poked by a Cory my hand had a simlair “ bruise” im sure this is lost in a ton of other reasons. Cories are not the easiest fish to ship. A bag full of fish with 3 swords on each fish bounced around bumpyinto each other. I’m surprised as many corys make it through shipping as they do

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On 7/28/2022 at 10:09 AM, Brandon p said:

A bag full of fish with 3 swords on each fish bounced around bumpyinto each other. I’m surprised as many corys make it through shipping as they do

Thanks for your reply. I do my best to treat them with kid gloves once I get them from the store, so I am believing more and more that the shipping process is to blame. Not knowing how they came in, it might be interesting to assume that the 3 larger ones, which appear to be the affected ones, came in one bag to the store and the four smaller in another. At least I have a great guarantee from the store to cover it, but I just hate to see such great fish go to waste basically...

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On 7/28/2022 at 11:30 AM, 411fishkeeping said:

Thanks for your reply. I do my best to treat them with kid gloves once I get them from the store, so I am believing more and more that the shipping process is to blame. Not knowing how they came in, it might be interesting to assume that the 3 larger ones, which appear to be the affected ones, came in one bag to the store and the four smaller in another. At least I have a great guarantee from the store to cover it, but I just hate to see such great fish go to waste basically...

I mean more just the whole proces from breeder to store. Most people carry there fish home like they’ve got the finest Crystal in that bag.  @Coluknows his treatments to so I listen when he gives advice I normally take it fast

Edited by Brandon p
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@Dancing Matt @Colu @Brandon p thank you all for your time and contributions to this problem. Unfortunately, the last affected fish has passed, for a total of 3/7 lost with all the same symptoms. The other 4 smaller corys are doing great it seems, with nice color and activity levels. They will receive another feeding of blood worms tonight, and hopefully the store can get some more in so I can end up with 8-10. If any of the other 4 corys begin to exhibit these symptoms, I will notify this thread immediately and follow @Colu's guidance for treatment.

Best Regards to all and happy fish keeping.

 

Edited by 411fishkeeping
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On 7/28/2022 at 6:14 AM, 411fishkeeping said:

No fuzz, just the eventual what I would call internal hemorrhage. I appreciate it!

Yeah, sounds and looks like they went through a heck of a time in shipping.

I understand that the two in question passed. I would encourage treatment with the antibiotic medications (any of the 3 mentioned above) if possible as well as salt.  It will help the other corys recover from whatever happened and any other internal damage.

On 7/28/2022 at 10:27 AM, 411fishkeeping said:

They will receive another feeding of blood worms tonight, and hopefully the store can get some more in so I can end up with 8-10.

I feed mine spirulina brine / blood worms alternating days.  The love both!  Best of luck.

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On 7/28/2022 at 12:42 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah, sounds and looks like they went through a heck of a time in shipping.

I understand that the two in question passed. I would encourage treatment with the antibiotic medications (any of the 3 mentioned above) if possible as well as salt.  It will help the other corys recover from whatever happened and any other internal damage.

I feed mine spirulina brine / blood worms alternating days.  The love both!  Best of luck.

I will gladly try both! Thank you for taking the time.

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