Mystery snail eggs & inverts journal

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:25 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Sometimes nerites will do weird things that concern me, then the next moment they are cruising around again. One time my zebra nerite was on his back writhing around and was gripping a bunch of sand in his foot. I thought he was dying or suffering. Then he dug a little hole, and then resumed cruising the tank and cleaning glass as usual (?)

Just imagine the little itch right in the center of your back.  That's all it was doing!

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Ingot eating kale.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Someone kept me company during the water change.

The kale is gone. I think Ingot is the only one that actually ate it.  At least she’s the only one I saw that showed interest. But who knows what happened while I was at work.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Underwater snail eggs..  seemed like a loosely formed clutch, and then a few eggs a short distance away

Also a shrimp climbed slate mountain. 🏆 

 

 

Bon Bon doing the chores, vacuuming.

 

she hasn’t noticed the Repashy yet.

Kratos.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Been thinking about this for a bit. Saying to myself, “Self, things are going well with the shrimp. We haven’t had any ‘incidents’ lately. We have a nice drip water change system established (and we don’t really change water too often, because parameters are good). We have only one male to three female. Maybe that’s not fair. Let’s get some more shrimp.”

And so I head to the LFS and I do get more. I got 4. Why 4, you ask? Because they had 4. 🤣 Now, dummy me, I don’t watch them bag the shrimp and the netter-upper guy takes the bag to the checker-outter guy while I continue to shop. Nor do I ask the price, as their shrimp bowl was unmarked except for “Blue Shrimp”. Bought some frozen brine shrimp, looked at the fish, etc. Go to check out and the guy is looking in the bag, and I say, there’s 4 shrimp. He finished the transaction, THEN I notice- one is a shrimplet. And then I get my total which is ouch, so I ask how much the shrimp are. $8 each. Seems steep!!  And I was charged the full $8 for that shrimplet too (but what was I gonna do, leave little shrimplet there all alone and take her family away?) Whatever, I supported local, got what I went for, done deal.

Here are the new recruits, getting ready for their 2 hr drip.

 

Java moss for their comfort. They were instantly interested and took advantage of it.

So going back to the first part, “Self, things are going well with the shrimp.”  Why then, do I look in the tank and a female is on her back??

 

Omg!  I’m really hoping she is molting. I’m kinda freaking out though. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:49 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Omg!  I’m really hoping she is molting. I’m kinda freaking out though. 

Yeah, that looks like molting. It might be just the shell and not the shrimp in there?  Keep an eye out, keep us posted.  Making sure molting is going well is literally the one thing to do with em. 🙂

Very nice new additions.  Vibrant colors!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

The shrimplet - I thought I’d lose track of her but she’s very busy! She’s utilizing the whole tank. So are the other newbies.

 

[nabokovfan87]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea was it a molt or....?  Don't leave us in suspense like this.... 😞

Edited January 14, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 5:50 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea was it a molt or....?  Don't leave us in suspense like this. 😂

Yeah so… I hate posting bad news. The shrimp passed. 😔  I carefully checked and there was no molt in progress. Meaning I took a toothpick to see if the carapace was loose. It was very affixed. So I don’t know. But before doing anything or checking the carapace, I observed for 3 hrs, zero signs of life. I even gave a little nudge to see if I could get any response, even an antenna twitch. Nada. No light banding or anything, perfect color. I really don’t know. Parameters are stable, nothing changed there.
 

I’m frustrated and I worry I just put 4 new shrimp in the tank of death. I’m getting mixed info about RO water. Some people say use it for neos, other people say not necessary, tap water is fine for neos and that RO is really only needed for caridina, which are I guess more sensitive than Neocaridina. Others say you’ll lose most of the first group and that’s normal, but the babies born into the water will be resilient and will not have issues. 😕🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited January 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:37 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Yeah so… I hate posting bad news. The shrimp passed. 😔  I carefully checked and there was no molt in progress. Meaning I took a toothpick to see if the carapace was loose. It was very affixed. So I don’t know. But before doing anything or checking the carapace, I observed for 3 hrs, zero signs of life. I even gave a little nudge to see if I could get any response, even an antenna twitch. Nada. No light banding or anything, perfect color. I really don’t know. Parameters are stable, nothing changed there.

Very sorry.  Unfortunately it does happen.   PH and Temp?  (I know it's likely a random thing, but just curious what you're at right now)

Often when shrimp die of "old age" it's similar to what you just experienced.  It just sort of happens. 😞

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:42 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Very sorry.  Unfortunately it does happen.   PH and Temp?  (I know it's likely a random thing, but just curious what you're at right now)

Often when shrimp die of "old age" it's similar to what you just experienced.  It just sort of happens. 😞

Ph 7

temp 75

i added more comments ⬆️ 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Here were my test results from today.

Nitrite 0

ammonia 0

nitrate 5

ph 7

kh 80

gh 180+ (test kit maxes out at 180)

this is why I wonder about RO water usage

@nabokovfan87

Edited January 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

this is why I wonder about RO water usage

@nabokovfan87

In which sense...?  PH could be slightly higher.  Let me try to track down some care guides.  I think it should be fine, but that's the only thing that sticks out.  (Edit: Range I found is 6.8-7.5 so you're fine)

KH/GH are fine. Ammonia (and others) are all fine.  Food is usually what molt issues mean, but not sure that's what this is right now.

Temp?

 

Quote

Recommended Tank Parameters

• pH level range: 6.4 to 8.0, ideal range: 6.8 to 7.5
• Temperature range: 72° to 82° F
• Water type: kH 0-8; gH 4-14; TDS 100-300
• Notes from the owner:
  • All dwarf shrimp prefer to live in tanks with live aquatic plants (such as willow moss, baby tears, green cabomba, etc). There are a few reasons for this:
    • 1. Dwarf shrimp love the cover that plants provide them
    • 2. They love to graze on the plants for algae
    • 3. Plants help keep the water clean for the shrimp
• We have kept Blue Velvet Shrimp in a wide array of water parameters with great success. Though they are extremely adaptable and will thrive in a pH of 6.4 to 8, we have found that the optimum pH is between 6.8 and 7.5. Water temperature can be anywhere from 68°to 80° (Fahrenheit), but the fastest breeding occurs at about 76° F.  If you plan to breed the shrimp, you will NEED to have a sponge prefilter on your filter intake to prevent the shrimp from being sucked in. 
• Also, nearly every species of fish will eat dwarf shrimp fry, so breeding is best accomplished in species-only tanks. They are very tolerant of hard water. We have kept them in water as hard as 20gH/400 TDS and still saw them breed incredibly fast.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

It came up in another thread.  How is the KH in your tank compared to your tap?  Over time, it gets higher and higher if not enough water is changed.  Not sure if that's what you mean about RO usage.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

In which sense...? 

Gh causing issues w/ shrimp breeding and molting.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 9:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Ph 7

temp 75

 

On 1/13/2023 at 10:00 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

How is the KH in your tank compared to your tap

Just checked. Gh, kH, ph - tap same as tank.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Rather than buy the machine, would probably go the distilled route since it’s just a 10g. But I need to learn more - ie: is it really necessary. Plus with ro you have to add minerals back as well as test tds and I’m not sure if I’m going down some rabbit hole or what.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:10 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Gh causing issues w/ shrimp breeding and molting.

GH I literally ignore 99% of the time. Hard water is usually "fine" but the issue is often PH/KH.  Temp is fine.  KH is right on the line, but perfectly fine.  PH is fine. 

Again, take it with a grain of salt, but my water is normally 300+ in terms of GH.  I only had losses and issues when my KH swung.  I'm talking years and years of these shrimp in the tank at two different sources. Most often no swings in parameters, but this past year after the move I did have some trouble for a few months.

I think a lot of people use RO with shrimp for the sake of trying to make the water "perfect" which tends to cause more stress in the eyes of some and that's something I do hear from Cory time to time.  I do dose in a lot of stuff, but don't have fancy shrimp to give you tested experience and a full grasp on my method and if it's reliable at all.  Amanos are their own separate type of puzzle, but.... IDK.  My gut tells me that your water from the tap has slightly lower KH and it's just a matter of water changes or food. 

I see so many stories of people with Neos that don't change water.  That has it's own effects when you do start to change water.  I've also heard people who just change water as the shrimp are in their community tanks and they don't really modify technique for them.
 

On 1/13/2023 at 7:16 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Rather than buy the machine, would probably go the distilled route since it’s just a 10g. But I need to learn more - ie: is it really necessary. Plus with ro you have to add minerals back as well as test tds and I’m not sure if I’m going down some rabbit hole or what.

Needless to say, I am working on solving this or... trying to understand this as well.  I feel your struggle.  I would opt towards tap and getting shrimp that do well in your water.  It could take months and few batches of fry, but eventually they will adapt and you will have more shrimp than you know what to do with.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

i added more comments ⬆️ 

I'll catch up!  😞

On 1/13/2023 at 6:37 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Some people say use it for neos, other people say not necessary, tap water is fine for neos and that RO is really only needed for caridina, which are I guess more sensitive than Neocaridina. Others say you’ll lose most of the first group and that’s normal, but the babies born into the water will be resilient and will not have issues. 😕🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah, all of this is accurate.

Some don't need RO or to mix their water with RO for Neos because their tap is adequate.  Your water may vary.

Caridina are more sensitive / demanding than Neos.  It's a slight thing, but they basically don't tolerate any hardness.

As for "you'll lose a lot of your first group" I've had this mentioned to me for fish as well as others.  I've heard it from Eric (corydoras breeder in washington) as well as from dean where they mention that you want to get to your second generation in your water and then you'll have fully adapted fish (or shrimp).  That is usually the rule of thumb / tribal knowledge breeders use for their projects.

Edited January 14, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:20 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

it's just a matter of water changes or food. 

I see so many stories of people with Neos that don't change water.

95% of the time they don’t eat food. They are up in the water sprite picking at algae and stuff. There is green hair algae up there that they enjoy. I do have a co op order coming tomorrow with some shrimp sticks. We will see if they descend from the water sprite and show interest.

Initially I was water changing weekly but those water changes were causing more deaths, so I backed off. I do it every 2-3 weeks now, and I drip water back in. No more than 10% usually.

The RO water info I got from a video by Flip Aquatics.

Also I have a friend in this area with a shrimp tank and she buys distilled and has no probs.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:39 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

95% of the time they don’t eat food. They are up in the water sprite picking at algae and stuff. There is green hair algae up there that they enjoy. I do have a co op order coming tomorrow with some shrimp sticks. We will see if they descend from the water sprite and show interest.

I would opt for feeding them at night to see if they go after food a little easier.  Hopefully you're able to feed them what they need.  You could also powderize something you want them to eat and then just drizzle that on the water sprite.  This was what I did with my fry and the moss.  I'm sure that would do well with the shrimp as well.  The spirulina based foods is what does the best for me, specifically those algae tabs (actual spirulina ones that I can't even find anymore, old sera ones) and soilent green repashy.

I hope, am hoping that things improve for you.  It's never easy to lose one and I know it's been a back and forth struggle with these ones for you.   All I can really is say that I'm left with a lot of questions myself based on my own experiences with my shrimp.  Different animal, but yeah.... I find myself with more questions as this thing progresses for you.
 

On 1/13/2023 at 7:39 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Initially I was water changing weekly but those water changes were causing more deaths, so I backed off. I do it every 2-3 weeks now, and I drip water back in. No more than 10% usually.

The RO water info I got from a video by Flip Aquatics.

Also I have a friend in this area with a shrimp tank and she buys distilled and has no probs.

I'll check it out, try to send you some information if I find anything worth a read for you.  Maybe Chris Lukhaup has a video I can find on the topic.

If distilled is a known useful thing, then I would say opt for that and get some new water in there. It'll help with oxygenation, tds, and KH.  Even if you're eventually able to go from 10 up to 20% WCs that's a huge improvement in my view.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

If distilled is a known useful thing, then I would say opt for that

Seems there is a learning curve to it. You have to add minerals, and additives to set your own gh and kH. And I don’t know how they’d take to water changes with different water. So many questions.. 

When I get the shrimp sticks from co op I will try placing them in the water sprite. The new guys are on the bottom, but I suspect it’s just a matter of time before they go up into the sprite.

P.S. it’s gonna be 38 degrees here tonight! This is supposed to be “The Sunshine State”!

Edited January 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

and soilent green repashy

I have this. I can maybe sprinkle this in there.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:04 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I have this. I can maybe sprinkle this in there.

I tend to feed it 2x a week when I am really, really trying to do well.  I make a batch and toss it in the freezer. 

Currently I have 12-15 tabs open about shrimp water changes.  Let's go down the rabbit hole....

On 1/13/2023 at 7:56 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Seems there is a learning curve to it. You have to add minerals, and additives to set your own gh and kH. And I don’t know how they’d take to water changes with different water. So many questions.. 

The way to get around that is to basically "age" or condition the water.  Add the buffers and give it X amount of time.  For some it's an hour, for others it's a day or several days.   I also have heard of breeders of fish / shrimp who only use old tank water for water changes and that's their version of "aged" water.

My intuition is very similar to this video and this breeder's views.
 

 

[nabokovfan87]

No idea if this is helpful, but here's a quick video of a shrimp molting.  The music is definitely fitting. LOL
 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I tend to feed it 2x a week when I am really, really trying to do well

I have been giving Repashy cubes. They used to go for them. Now they don’t. So maybe I can swirl powder in the water so it coats the water sprite.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Currently I have 12-15 tabs open about shrimp water changes

Oh my gosh, @nabokovfan87, thank you!

On 1/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The way to get around that is to basically "age" or condition the water.  Add the buffers and give it X amount of time

What I mean is, to take them from 180 gh.. to 10 gh (for example). Would that have an ill effect? Too drastic a change? Or would that put them into a more ideal, healthier environment.

On 1/14/2023 at 12:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

here's a quick video of a shrimp molting.  The music is definitely fitting

I happened upon that one yesterday around the time I examined the shrimp. I was like, quite the soundtrack here. I liked it. 🤣

On 1/13/2023 at 11:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

My intuition is very similar to this video and this breeder's views

I’m confused because I was doing all the stuff she recommends. Such as making sure temperature is the same, using Prime, and ph, gh, kH were the same. The one thing I was not doing initially though, was dripping water back in. I was pouring it. 
 

I will also add that I did have some shrimp successfully molt. I have found perfect molts since I adopted them. (Blue dream shrimp molts are whitish-clear).

🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌🐌

Next question is for @Guppysnail. York was at the top and I accidentally bumped her and she went partially into her shell and floated. No big deal, she had some air in her shell. But her operculum is in bad shape. Like it’s beginning to erode/disintegrate away. 😞 It is becoming soft. I know that operculum health is tied to protein, so I am ramping that up. My Snello has bloodworms in it, but perhaps that not cutting it. That’s not the only thing I feed though. I throw in Repashy, and the snails often get fish food that the fish leave behind after they are full. Rotation is snello, boiled veg, Repashy, algae wafers, banquet blocks, crab cuisine (the fish usually beat them to the crab cuisine so I don’t feed that one too often). Frozen foods are always consumed by the fish; I can’t seem to get them to the snails. Any advice? Could I be doing anything different? The other snails have strong healthy operculums, as far as I can tell. It is only York that has this issue. I gave her a generous amount of cichlid pellets today. 40% protein in those, and the ones I bought are too big for the fish mouths. (But just perfect for snail mouths)

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea