Saw something new to me

[Choogie]

The only store with fish here is PetSmart. Walmart has even stopped carrying them a few years ago. So PS is the only place to get anything aquarium related without driving 2-3 hrs one way to a lfs. They do have decent sales on dry goods at times and I was in there a few days ago and was looking at their dead and dying fish. They had glow fish in fluorescent colors. Are these some new to me actual breed species? I remember years ago there was a big controversy over the ethics of selling dyed fish and was just wondering if that’s what these were. I’m not knocking anyone here who might like and have them but to me they don’t look natural. Just curious. 

[Choogie]

I’d like to add I’ve fallen in love with ACO. Besides this forum and their blogs and videos that are helping me get back up to speed on current aquarium things they are great to order from. I’ve placed several orders in the last 3-4 months and they ship the same day including the one today. Twice I’ve ordered on Saturday and had it delivered on Monday and I’m in Texas. That’s almost spooky!

[Widgets]

From what I remember hearing, the painted fish from years ago were actually injected with the fluorescent dye. Some fish did not survive long. The ones that did would slowly lose the color. I never had any desire to have any.

The current fad (hopefully) is genetically modifying fish to make them glow. From what I understand, there fish are healthy and otherwise normal. I still do not have any desire.

[Choogie]

That’s the ones I remember. Kind of like the dyed chicks and bunnies they used to sell at Easter many years ago. There must be some serious gene splicing or something going on with these now. Next we’ll have 3 headed fish or something! 

[CT_]

yeah they are GMO fish with fluorescent protein expressed in their muscle tissue.  Patented too so you cant legally breed them, or maybe sell them, i forget where the line is.

[Widgets]

From what I just read, they borrowed the fluorescent genes from jellyfish and corals. They were working towards developing a fish that would change color when toxins were present in the water. The always fluorescent version was a necessary first step. They now have some versions that are only fluorescent when a specific toxin is present.

Imagine having a swimming water test kit. A Zebra Danio that changes from yellow to green based on how much ammonia is present. Another fish for Nitrites, and another for Nitrates. That might be more acceptable. Definitely more useful.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Glofish is a trademarked brand, there are strong opinions in the industry and hobby about them but this is why we do our own independent research and come up with our own opinions. Because they are trademarked they do say you are not to breed them for profit (not sure how that works out, nature finds a way). Anyway, not promoting it myself but they do have their own website and have a pretty comprehensive FAQ section, I'd read it before as I briefly kept a Glofish female Betta sadly like pretty much ALL Betta she didn't live long- I don't in any way blame her Glofish background- she seemed normal and delightful in every other way. Sadly she'll be my very last Betta. Anyway there are others on here that keep Glofish brand fish and seem happy with them. 

https://shop.glofish.com/pages/glofish-faq

Edited March 27, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[lefty o]

they are a bad idea that has been around 12-15 years or so.

[Brandon p]

Snd they still doing it to more and more species

[Choogie]

Well I hope I didn’t open a bad thread and certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone. I was just curious. We all have preferences on what fish we like. Just because they’re not my type sure doesn’t mean no one else can’t like them. Thanks for informing me on them though. I gotta admit tattle tale fish on water conditions would be as useful as a home burglar alarm. IMHO playing with genes in anything can have good or bad consequences, just depends on how it is used. 

[Cinnebuns]

I honestly see the issues surrounding them and acknowledge them, but I do personally own glo tetras and they were the very first fish I bought. Honestly, if I were to do it again, I would have gotten what I have now minus them, but they did get me into the hobby so they did a job. 

In terms of the GMO part of them, I think about it this way. GMOs are everywhere whether they are modified in a lab or by selective breeding. I honestly see little difference between modifying an organism by manually manipulating genes vs manipulating genes through selective breeding. They both have the same potential for good or bad results and have similar ethical issues behind them.

Where the line is for me is when it starts harming the organism. Dogs are always the best example for this as they have been selectively bred the longest and therefore have the greatest genetic variation. When you get into issues like short snouted dogs who can't breathe, or I believe it's pugs that can't give birth without a c-section (and are also short snouted. Poor things) then the story changes for me. 

I do think it's always good to question everything and have an ethical discussion or science can get out of control. I also respect and understand the reasons people may be afraid of GMOs or just simply not like the fake appearance of the fish. A good, yet frustrating, part of my personality is I can easily see things from multiple points of view. 

I honestly don't think there is a right answer. GMOs are here whether it's glowing fish or corn. Genetic modifications happen all the time even without a lab, yet where does good turn into bad?  I'm not always 100% sure  

[Choogie]

You said much more eloquently what I was getting at. My main concern is unintended consequences. I seriously doubt they knew the cute dog they were trying to make would have trouble breathing or giving birth. 

[Biotope Biologist]

In the science world we refer to them as GFP (green fluorescent protein). We use different colors now but still refer to them as such. Interestingly enough the protein was discovered by a team of scientists who were working out of our facilities in Friday harbor. 
 

This protein can bind anywhere a normal protein can bind and has been remarkably useful in zebra danios which have been our beloved research animal since the dawn of time. Not really, but they are very useful in finding different environmental stresses in our waterway.

 

Not to mention about 10 years back we used these proteins in rat brains to make huge advancements in understanding how our brains work and brains in general. I don’t think I can link it here but type it into your search engine of choice I have a poster of it hanging on my wall it’s a work of art seeing the different proteins lit up. I believe it’s affectionately referred to as “brainbow.”

 

I think the only trauma that glofish(tm) have endured is when the industry was still young people subjected them to black and blue lights which for extended exposure can damage our eyes and the fishes eyes. The GFP is added when they are still embryonic so no injection of the protein as adults. When I worked at pet chain store we sold them in a black light tank for all of 1 week before the black light randomly broke for some reason that I have no idea about whatsoever, so we had to switch back to a normal light. 
 

Some fish do also signal eachother with their scales to communicate and to mark who is who. Each zebra danio has a slightly different pattern, but so far research has not been definitive on whether GFP affects their ability to communicate or identify one another.

 

 

sorry this post ended up being so long since I live near these laboratories I have talked endlessly on the ethics of this since probably about 2010 when these fish made it outside of labs.

[Choogie]

Thanks. That explains why I hadn’t seen them before. I’d shut down doing fish in 08. 

[CT_]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:05 PM, Cinnebuns said:

In terms of the GMO part of them, I think about it this way. GMOs are everywhere whether they are modified in a lab or by selective breeding. I honestly see little difference between modifying an organism by manually manipulating genes vs manipulating genes through selective breeding. They both have the same potential for good or bad results and have similar ethical issues behind them.

Not to mention a lot of them are made by growing crops near a lump of cesium and then selecting things you like.  That way you get an untargeted shotgun of mutations and not have to label it. 

 

On 3/27/2022 at 10:21 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

In the science world we refer to them as GFP (green fluorescent protein). We use different colors now but still refer to them as such.

Our lab has different names for them including multiple names for gfp (eg sfGFP).  Red cyan are the common others we used (rfp cfp).

 

On 3/27/2022 at 10:21 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

The GFP is added when they are still embryonic so no injection of the protein as adults.

I think it's genomically integrated and constituativly expressed.  But I could be wrong. 

[Brandon p]

Scientists created the GloFish by inserting fluorescent genes from jellyfish and sea anemones into the eggs of a silver and black zebra danio, a tropical fish from India. The fish was designed to help scientists determine when waterways were contaminated. If they glowed, it meant there were pollutants in the water. 
 

This was the first use of them now the genes added make the fish glow all the time. I wonder if they glow in tanks that are out wack.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:15 PM, Choogie said:

You said much more eloquently what I was getting at. My main concern is unintended consequences. I seriously doubt they knew the cute dog they were trying to make would have trouble breathing or giving birth. 

One thing about glow fish is they are supposed to be easy to keep. A beginner fish. This  IMO is better than selling Neon Tetras because they are not beginner fish. 

[DaveO]

On 3/27/2022 at 12:21 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

When I worked at pet chain store we sold them in a black light tank for all of 1 week before the black light randomly broke for some reason that I have no idea about whatsoever, so we had to switch back to a normal light.

Good job breaking the black light. 🤣

[ndfi78]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:14 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

One thing about glow fish is they are supposed to be easy to keep. A beginner fish. This  IMO is better than selling Neon Tetras because they are not beginner fish. 

I can attest to this; they are extremely easy to keep. Even with all the mistakes I have made, the 3 I have are still alive. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/27/2022 at 10:44 AM, Choogie said:

Thanks. That explains why I hadn’t seen them before. I’d shut down doing fish in 08. 

I just got back into the hobby too. The last time I saw fish glow was the injected ones. I never bought them cause I figured it was cruel and they would probably die soon too. 

As for Petco and the like, my son used to work at a Petco in the fish department when he was a kid and he said ""there is A LOT of death in that store".

I went in a Petsmart the other day and they had horrible looking Bettas in cups that have been there so long green algae was growing in them. I felt sorry for those fish, it's like they were just waiting to die.

Sad... 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:27 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

I just got back into the hobby too. The last time I saw fish glow was the injected ones. I never bought them cause I figured it was cruel and they would probably die soon too. 

As for Petco and the like, my son used to work at a Petco in the fish department when he was a kid and he said ""there is A LOT of death in that store".

I went in a Petsmart the other day and they had horrible looking Bettas in cups that have been there so long green algae was growing in them. I felt sorry for those fish, it's like they were just waiting to die.

Sad... 

Yeah, the more I learn about fish stress and fish illness, the more I see in the stores that I never noticed before. A lot of times I leave the stores feeling all bummed out. And it gets my blood boiling when the stores don't remove the dead fish. 

I do want to give props to the Pet Supermarket nearby though. They have their bettas in glass open-top containers and each container has a healthy sprig of hornwort in it. They look much better than the ones in Tupperware...

Edited May 18, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea
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