Dutch/ plant farm 75 gallon (and other projects)

[gjcarew]

I'm moving my journal over from another forum. I've made intros here before, this is my most recent project. 

I managed to win the AGA Dutch-style aquascape competition last year. I am hoping it wasn't a fluke, so I'm going to try again this year.

In its current format, this tank is not Dutch-style. But you must learn how to grow before you can garden, and I am still learning how to grow. This tank uses 6 T5HO lights and inert gravel, both of which are new to me. I need to get a handle on what plants do well in these conditions before I start massaging this to actually look like a Dutch-style aquarium.

What other projects? I also dabble with ponds, wabi kusa, and living walls. I am interested in trying my hand at a really great paludarium and biotope someday, but for the time being I don't have the bandwidth. Most aquarium projects are on hold right now as I bought a house last fall that has needed pretty constant repair. 

A few warnings: I'm not a great writer. I have given up on trying to be super scientific and precise, so if you ask me a specific question my answer may be hand-wavey. Try to keep in mind that the way I do things is only one of a whole spectrum of ways to keep successful aquaria. I am no an expert, just a guy semi-obsessed with one of the nichest hobbies imaginable.

Current dosing: 

15 ppm Ca, 12.2 g  CaSO4,2H2O
7.5 ppm Mg, 14.4 g MgSO4,7H2O

 

7.2 ppm NO3/ 3.33 g

2.8 ppm PO4/ 1.5 g

15.2 ppm K2SO4/ 5.19 g

Edited December 13, 2023 by gjcarew

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Glad too have you over here. And thank goodness for unscientific!!!!

[SkaleyAquatics]

@gjcarew Glad to see this 75g finally, was looking for it after you had mentioned you turn down the 22g after getting this one on the other platform. Will be giving you a follow on this one. 

[gjcarew]

The rare midweek update: I just bought a 10 lb CO2 tank and a flow meter. This tank is big enough, and I push CO2 hard enough, that a bubble counter doesn't do me much good. The other advantage is I will be able to give injection rates in terms of cubic centimeters per minute per gallon, which is an actual rate rather than the ambiguous unit of "bubbles per second."

[Mmiller2001]

Which flow meter?

 

[gjcarew]

This made me go back in my emails to check and I dont think they sent me a receipt. I'm pretty sure it was the Dwyer RMA 151 SSV, which has a 5-50 cc/m scale. I'll have to check tomorrow that they are sending my order, because the payment definitely went through!

Edited March 4, 2022 by gjcarew

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’ve seen your posts on the other forum and the posts here as well. You are very welcome here and appreciate all the experience and expertise you bring! 

[gjcarew]

I trimmed some Ludwigia rubin, Alternanthera reineckii "variegated," Lobelia cardinalis, and Bacopa caroliniana to sell at the GSAS auction tomorrow. 

I also got rid of some plants that I've had since November that just weren't doing well: Lagenandra meboldii "green," Rotala wallichii "long leaf," and Mayaca sp. "Santarem Red Fireworks." As you can see below, they were far from thriving. 

My (poorly kept) secret is that I'm not particularly good at growing plants. I just try a bunch out, and only keep the ones that do well. Different plants want different conditions, and if you try to change parameters to fit one plant you will inevitably throw them off for another. Much better in my opinion to just keep plants that like the soup you're serving.

On the positive side, I'm really happy with the recovery of my Microsorum pteropus sp. India. After a few months in a low tech tank it was looking super rough, and the existing stock is recovered from almost bare rhizomes. It's a variety with somewhat narrow but very short leaves.

 The Cryptocoryne nurii "Luminous green" has been looking really good as well, and a third tiny plant is starting to pop up. At the current rate it seems like it makes a new plant every three leaves or so. I love the brown and green stripey pattern on its leaves.

Here is the current dosing. These are given for a 50 gallon water change volume, not based on the whole tank (75 galon) volume:

15 ppm Ca, 12.2 g  CaSO4,2H2O
7.5 ppm Mg, 14.4 g MgSO4,7H2O
16 ppm NO3, 5 g KNO3
6 ppm PO4, 1.6 g KH2PO4
16 ppm K (30 ppm total), 6.75 g K2SO4
 

Overall I'm happy where things are. If things go as planned I should be getting some fish in here soon. I'm still fighting algae more than in a mature tank but the healthy plant mass is reaching that critical point where algae can no longer take hold. Today's maintenance was about three hours due to pulling algae, replacing an empty CO2 tank, and trimming, but I should be able to get that down to about half that time soon enough.

Edited March 8, 2022 by gjcarew

[Mmiller2001]

Have you been able to get a PAR measure with your new light?

[Patrick_G]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:46 AM, gjcarew said:

I trimmed some Ludwigia rubin, Alternanthera reineckii "variegated," Lobelia cardinalis, and Bacopa caroliniana to sell at the GSAS auction tomorrow. 

On my way! 

On 3/8/2022 at 12:46 AM, gjcarew said:

My (poorly kept) secret is that I'm not particularly good at growing plants. I just try a bunch out, and only keep the ones that do well.

That pretty much sums up my horticulture hobby too.

[laritheloud]

On 3/8/2022 at 3:46 AM, gjcarew said:

My (poorly kept) secret is that I'm not particularly good at growing plants. I just try a bunch out, and only keep the ones that do well. Different plants want different conditions, and if you try to change parameters to fit one plant you will inevitably throw them off for another. Much better in my opinion to just keep plants that like the soup you're serving.

This is my favorite philosophy. I tried a huge mishmash of plants across my tanks, took out the ones that failed, and replaced them with things I liked better and knew would grow nicely. Most of my tanks are still evolving as I adjust and tweak and pull out unhealthy-looking plants! 

I absolutely love seeing your progress and your plant growth is stunning. Glad to see you here and sharing your work with us.

[gjcarew]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:30 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Have you been able to get a PAR measure with your new light?

I just picked up the par meter today so I should be able to get some hard numbers this weekend.

I was planning to try to pick up some rainbowfish at the GSAS auction today but prices ended up being pretty outrageous. In preparation, I took some water quality readings which, having not had fish in here for a while, I hadn't done recently. Almost everything was as expected except KH. I moved last fall and I apparently haven't checked it since then, but KH was 4 when the Seattle KH is usually 0-1. So I looked up the water report and turns out that despite being less a quarter mile from the Seattle city limits, we are on a different water source.

Most plants are fine, but this explains why the mayaca "santarem red fireworks," rotala wallichii and ammania gracilis have been struggling. They all prefer soft water. Most aquatic plants prefer soft water, when it comes down to it. So now the question is whether I should dive down the RO/DI rabbit hole, or just limit myself to plants that like the conditions I have.

Edit: I'm being ridiculous, 4 dKH is fine. Especially after I just said in the post above that it's better not to chase parameters. 

I'm mostly just sad because I have a sneaking suspicion that I won't be growing syngonanthus any time soon. I'll also have to dial the Ca+Mg dosing waaay back. I was getting what looks like potassium and iron deficiency symptoms, pretty sure that's because calcium is way higher than expected and is an antagonist to the uptake of many other nutrients.

Edited March 10, 2022 by gjcarew

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:55 AM, gjcarew said:

I just picked up the par meter today so I should be able to get some hard numbers this weekend.

I was planning to try to pick up some rainbowfish at the GSAS auction today but prices ended up being pretty outrageous. In preparation, I took some water quality readings which, having not had fish in here for a while, I hadn't done recently. Almost everything was as expected except KH. I moved last fall and I apparently haven't checked it since then, but KH was 4 when the Seattle KH is usually 0-1. So I looked up the water report and turns out that despite being less a quarter mile from the Seattle city limits, we are on a different water source.

Most plants are fine, but this explains why the mayaca "santarem red fireworks," rotala wallichii and ammania gracilis have been struggling. They all prefer soft water. Most aquatic plants prefer soft water, when it comes down to it. So now the question is whether I should dive down the RO/DI rabbit hole, or just limit myself to plants that like the conditions I have.

Edit: I'm being ridiculous, 4 dKH is fine. Especially after I just said in the post above that it's better not to chase parameters. 

I'm mostly just sad because I have a sneaking suspicion that I won't be growing syngonanthus any time soon. I'll also have to dial the Ca+Mg dosing waaay back. I was getting what looks like potassium and iron deficiency symptoms, pretty sure that's because calcium is way higher than expected and is an antagonist to the uptake of many other nutrients.

You are going to have to dive into RO/DI, Belem only like 6.0 or below!

[gjcarew]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:46 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

You are going to have to dive into RO/DI, Belem only like 6.0 or below!

I'm going to try out some mineralized topsoil root tabs under them to see if that helps for now. I just don't know what my wife would say about introducing a 55 gallon drum into our basement. It's not out of the question, but it's gonna take some convincing.

[Torrey]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:04 PM, Patrick_G said:

On my way! 

That pretty much sums up my horticulture hobby too.

I recognize that ferry ride!!!

 

[gjcarew]

I got ahold of the club par meter and finally did some testing with some different bulb combos. I only tested par at one spot on the substrate to get even comparisons. Overall I found that as long as the sensor wasn't shaded, the PAR levels were remarkably even across the length and width of the tank.

For the pictures, I used a tripod and the same settings for every photo (1/125 shutter speed, ISO 400). I'm going to post all the pics at the end so they are easier to compare.

Combo 1: ATI purple, Geisemann Flora, AgroLED Bloom, Geisemann Tropic, Geisemann Flora, Geisemann Super Purple

96 PAR. This is the combo I've been using for the past month or so. It looks pretty good in person, but looks too cool and unnatural in photos. I'm pretty much just using all my expensive bulbs here.

Combo 2:  6500K, ATI purple, Geisemann Flora, AgroLED Bloom, Geisemann Tropic, Geisemann Flora, Geisemann Super Purple, 6500K

115 PAR. I like the look of this combo, maybe the best, but I'm not trying to blast this much PAR into the tank right now. I've done higher light than this before, but you start to lose color definition between different green plants. I'm assuming this is due to higher anthocyanin and carotenoid production to protect the leaves from high light-- many plants will tend towards yellow and pink hues at the tips. For a Dutch-style aquarium a slightly lower par is better. Growth is more manageable and the entire system is more forgiving.

Combo 3: Geisemann Flora, Agroled Bloom, Geisemann Tropic, ATI Purple

64 PAR. This is what I was running for the first month the aquarium was running. It does not photograph well on a phone camera, but overall a nice bulb combo. I was seeing some plants reaching (longer internode distance) at this PAR level.

Combo 4: 6500K, Geisemann Flora, Feisemann Super Purple, 6500K

46 PAR. I didn't care for this one. Everything looked kind of washed out.

Combo 5: 6500K, Geisemann Flora, AgroLED Bloom, Geisemann Tropic, Geisemann Flora, Geisemann Super Purple

94 PAR. I replaced one of the purple lights with a 6500K from my usual setup to try to get a warmer color temp. I really like this combo. It's lucky I like it because while setting my ATI purple bulb down I accidentally smashed it... 

Combo 6: Geisemann Flora, AgroLED Bloom, Geisemann Tropic, Geisemann Flora, Geisemann Super Purple

80 PAR. This is just from removing the generic 6500K. It's essentially one less purple bulb from where I started. 80 PAR at substrate should be high enough to grow just about any plant while still being very manageable. 

I'm strongly considering getting a 3000K bulb. The old Dutch tanks tend to have a yellowish tone that makes them feel warm and nostalgic, and I'm thinking a 3000K bulb (warm white, like an incandescent light) might help achieve that look.

Combo 1

Combo 2

Combo 3

Combo 4

Combo 5

Combo 6

 

Conclusions: The two biggest takeaways for me are that you can's tell at all how powerful a light is based on a picture, and that there is not a huge difference between a generic light and a fancy German aquarium T5 when it comes to par. Also, I was using too much purple. 

[Patrick_G]

Great info. Since most of us don’t roll our own lights these days it’s neat to see what the different combos look like. 

[Mmiller2001]

DIY spray bar?

[gjcarew]

That's actually the one that comes with the Oase Biomaster filter.

[Mmiller2001]

Where does the water enter? And how would that work with a moss wall?

[gjcarew]

 

On 3/13/2022 at 12:06 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Where does the water enter? And how would that work with a moss wall?

From the left side. I'm just gonna put the moss wall below the spray bar then remove the spray bar and move the moss up for pictures.

[Mmiller2001]

Ah, okay. I think I will try a back to front flow. Side to side seems not ideal for this tank size. 

Thank you.

[gjcarew]

Got some fish! Melanotaenia trifasciata Habgood River and notropis chromosis. I want to try the rainbow shiners outside this summer. 

I'm gonna probably get some cories down the line when I know this tank can handle a bigger bioload.

The rainbows are fairly small but already have a nice blue sheen. I'm looking forward to watching them grow out.

[gjcarew]

Not really journal related but it was pretty cool to see my aquarium in Amazonas magazine!

[Mmiller2001]

Awesome!