New Discus Journal

[jwcarlson]

Thanks 🙂

 

In the 10 gallon the change was... almost instantaneous.  The one who was previously in the tank started pecking at stuff.  The rest of them except one went after a little piece of beef heart after they'd been in there for an hour or so.  They didn't eat much, but they hadn't faced the front of their tank since Wednesday.  They're at least scooting around this little tank.

 

What's the best way to completely sterilize everything?  I'm talking wipe everything out in all the sponges and everything.

[Odd Duck]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:22 PM, jwcarlson said:

Thanks 🙂

 

In the 10 gallon the change was... almost instantaneous.  The one who was previously in the tank started pecking at stuff.  The rest of them except one went after a little piece of beef heart after they'd been in there for an hour or so.  They didn't eat much, but they hadn't faced the front of their tank since Wednesday.  They're at least scooting around this little tank.

 

What's the best way to completely sterilize everything?  I'm talking wipe everything out in all the sponges and everything.

Glad to hear you’re seeing some positive changes.  Feed light so you don’t overwhelm your filter in the small tank.

As far as disinfecting, peroxide is your best bet, but you’ll completely set back your cycle.  I would instead just wipe down everything, scrub it with a melamine sponge, and thoroughly rinse everything, filter and all.  This will set back your cycle, but not start it completely over, but should clear any issues.  You will still have some bacteria but they’ll have to rebuild numbers.  Do a 100% water change, of course, after the full wipe down, so anything loosened from the wipe down is siphoned away.

Good luck with your fishies.

[jwcarlson]

I don't necessarily disagree... but I already wipe the inside walls down every evening with water change.  Wipe the bottom when I can't get it clean (about every other change).  And same with the inside of the lids.  Also wipe down the wires/tubes/heaters nightly and then every few days unhook the air hoses and clean the areas inside the sponge tubes.

I'm increasingly worried that something entered the system somehow.  But I used all the same hoses, barrels, etc to fill the hospital tank.  The difference between the two tanks are the filters.

I don't know... my mind is racing and at this point there's not much to do but wait.

I've already drained the 75... I'm nuking the whole thing, "cycle" be darned.  I'm already wrapping my head around putting the same sponges back in at all, honestly.  Enough of my rambling.  Nothing to do but wait at this point.

[Odd Duck]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:54 PM, jwcarlson said:

I don't necessarily disagree... but I already wipe the inside walls down every evening with water change.  Wipe the bottom when I can't get it clean (about every other change).  And same with the inside of the lids.  Also wipe down the wires/tubes/heaters nightly and then every few days unhook the air hoses and clean the areas inside the sponge tubes.

I'm increasingly worried that something entered the system somehow.  But I used all the same hoses, barrels, etc to fill the hospital tank.  The difference between the two tanks are the filters.

I don't know... my mind is racing and at this point there's not much to do but wait.

I've already drained the 75... I'm nuking the whole thing, "cycle" be darned.  I'm already wrapping my head around putting the same sponges back in at all, honestly.  Enough of my rambling.  Nothing to do but wait at this point.

It sounds like you won’t be at all comfortable without disinfecting, so peroxide is your friend.  You can dilute half and half with tap water, let sit for 10 minutes, then rinse well.

Do you have another tank you trust?  Some squeezings from a filter from that tank is going to be your best reboot on your filter.

[jwcarlson]

Yeah I have a community tank in which everyone seems healthy.  My only hangup is the "cross contamination" issue that seems pretty prevalently spoken about in discus circles.  There's a guy that I might be able to have ship me a sponge, I vaguely remember him saying he keeps sponges ready for new discus keepers... I'd pay him handsomely for one right now.

[Torrey]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:08 PM, jwcarlson said:

Yeah I have a community tank in which everyone seems healthy.  My only hangup is the "cross contamination" issue that seems pretty prevalently spoken about in discus circles.  There's a guy that I might be able to have ship me a sponge, I vaguely remember him saying he keeps sponges ready for new discus keepers... I'd pay him handsomely for one right now.

I have two other options, sit with it and see how you feel.

Option one:

1. Take your current filtration out, and run it in a bucket of dechlorinated water. Trust that the beneficial bacteria in there is good, and feed the bucket as if the fish were in there. I like my fish blender to make a puree, so it is liquified. Start by feeding light, and gradually increase.

2. Dump a bottle of H2O2 in your 75 to wipe out whatever is in there, and let it sit for 72 hours. Wipe down the inside like you normally do, and repeat. After another 72 hours, 100% water change, and bring your filters back over. 

Option 2:

1. Send your tank water off to one of the labs that do full testing. Ask for full spectrum bacteria, parasitic, mineral and contaminants. Will cost about $70. Then decide if you need to wipe everything out in your filters/order a preseeded filter... but remember when you get it that if it went through temp extremes, the bb colony may have died.

Regardless, start off feeding super light.

[jwcarlson]

On 3/12/2022 at 10:02 PM, Torrey said:

I have two other options, sit with it and see how you feel.

Option one:

1. Take your current filtration out, and run it in a bucket of dechlorinated water. Trust that the beneficial bacteria in there is good, and feed the bucket as if the fish were in there. I like my fish blender to make a puree, so it is liquified. Start by feeding light, and gradually increase.

2. Dump a bottle of H2O2 in your 75 to wipe out whatever is in there, and let it sit for 72 hours. Wipe down the inside like you normally do, and repeat. After another 72 hours, 100% water change, and bring your filters back over. 

Option 2:

1. Send your tank water off to one of the labs that do full testing. Ask for full spectrum bacteria, parasitic, mineral and contaminants. Will cost about $70. Then decide if you need to wipe everything out in your filters/order a preseeded filter... but remember when you get it that if it went through temp extremes, the bb colony may have died.

Regardless, start off feeding super light.

I boiled my sponges.  Which destroyed the bases on my co-op filters 😞

Whoops.  Taking this opportunity to paint the bottom (outside) and change the background.  Peroxided the inside wiped/scrubbed everything 3+ times.  Rinsed a bunch.  Will rinse and scrub again tomorrow, it's all dry right now on end so I could paint it. 

Got a good source to buy seeded sponges?  Thankfully the little sponge filter in the 10 gallon now is keeping nitrite at zero.  I didn't test ammonia.  Very very very light feeding in the 10 gallon to hopefully just keep them from slipping any further back.  When I put the big tank back together and put filtration back in, should I squeeze that smaller sponge into the tank and let the bigger ones slurp up the leavings?  Or maybe squeeze it into a bucket of dechlored water so it doesn't drop a bunch of gunk in the tank.  That would be easy enough.  Put the little filter in the big tank and could feed the filters in the bucket easy enough.  I've got more filters coming from the Co-Op because right now all of them in the tank are going to be baseless and floating around. 😄

I tend to have a good cascade of problems once one thing goes wrong.  All the other plastic on the filters was fine, but the bases bubbled up like they inflated internally.  The top ring where the center tube thing that holds the sponge shrunk down by about 20% so nothing fits on it.

 

The good thing is the fish seem "ok" for the time being.  I am, however, very disappointed that I didn't move them sooner.  Live and learn.  I'll spare the dead fish pic, but it was a beautiful "blue diamond".  I only bought two of them and was really considering getting ten just of them.  He was already 3.25" long.

[Torrey]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:37 PM, jwcarlson said:

I boiled my sponges.  Which destroyed the bases on my co-op filters 😞

Whoops.  Taking this opportunity to paint the bottom (outside) and change the background.  Peroxided the inside wiped/scrubbed everything 3+ times.  Rinsed a bunch.  Will rinse and scrub again tomorrow, it's all dry right now on end so I could paint it. 

Got a good source to buy seeded sponges?  Thankfully the little sponge filter in the 10 gallon now is keeping nitrite at zero.  I didn't test ammonia.  Very very very light feeding in the 10 gallon to hopefully just keep them from slipping any further back.  When I put the big tank back together and put filtration back in, should I squeeze that smaller sponge into the tank and let the bigger ones slurp up the leavings?  Or maybe squeeze it into a bucket of dechlored water so it doesn't drop a bunch of gunk in the tank.  That would be easy enough.  Put the little filter in the big tank and could feed the filters in the bucket easy enough.  I've got more filters coming from the Co-Op because right now all of them in the tank are going to be baseless and floating around. 😄

I tend to have a good cascade of problems once one thing goes wrong.  All the other plastic on the filters was fine, but the bases bubbled up like they inflated internally.  The top ring where the center tube thing that holds the sponge shrunk down by about 20% so nothing fits on it.

 

The good thing is the fish seem "ok" for the time being.  I am, however, very disappointed that I didn't move them sooner.  Live and learn.  I'll spare the dead fish pic, but it was a beautiful "blue diamond".  I only bought two of them and was really considering getting ten just of them.  He was already 3.25" long.

Oof... Yeah, it sounds like you prefer my learning method.

I don't boil much of anything beyond wood... and even that is rare these days (the more we know, right?)

H2O2 is my choice of cleaners, shocked my tech at the CPAP place for my (thanks to covid) new need for a CPAP because I won't run my water tank for the CPAP through the dishwasher, I put H2O2 in it instead. Whole machine is in great shape, including mask, because i clean it daily with the peroxide, lol. Now that I am using the ZeroWater instead of the recommended distilled water, I don't even get a film anymore.

I don't know anyone who ships seeded filters, I thought I saw you had said you did. My old trick was to run the filters in the bucket while I was getting the tank ready with a heavy dose of SeaChem beneficial bacteria or Turtle Sludge destroyer from Tetra (these have been the only bacteria starters that have ever made ameasurable difference for me. I like FritZyme... but for the strength/concentration and success rates, I just couldn't justify the cost). Feed the bucket and keep adding beneficial bacteria daily. Test daily, and watch for the ammonia to switch to nitrites... the second stage of bacterial colony growth always takes longer for me.

I like dosing in the bucket instead of the tank, because I have nightmares of having the O2 drop too low with the added BB culture in the tank with fish. In a bucket with no livestock that isn't an issue. Also, I can dose a 5 gallon bucket at 4x the dose (for 5 gallons) to concentrate the BB culture in the water for the sponges, and still not use a quarter of what I would need in a 75 gallon, so  ore cost effective in the long run. win/win

[jwcarlson]

I don't understand why the plastic on the base would warp, but the rest wouldn't... but it doesn't much matter, frankly.  It wasn't designed to be boiled, I'm sure.  It was a suggestion on the discus forum and that felt cleaner to me than putting some chemical in it and then worrying if I rinsed it all out.  Right now I forced one base on and double stacked a set of sponges.  The other is quasi floating.  Two bases totally useless.  😄

 

The discus are back in the big tank as of last night.  They were happy to see me this AM, though we've certainly taken a step or ten back considering almost all of my interactions with them for a week have involved near-fatal (fatal for one) illness, hands grabbing fish, nets scooping when that doesn't work, etc.  While the tank was getting sanitized and everything cleaned/sanitized, I painted "fake sand" on the bottom of the tank (to be clear on the bottom OUTSIDE) and change the background from black window film to blue.  As a result the fish look really pale.  Which I am not stoked about.  They look really pathetic compared to in the 75 w/ black background (and even in the 10 which also has a black back).  In their defense, it could be because they just got moved around and crammed into a bucket, a tiny tank, a bucket again... etc.  But I think it's the background/bottom doing it.  Kind of wishing I would have just left it as is because the fish looked fantastic in person.  I've seen so many people say that discus show color best against blue and light colored bottoms.  So I'll give this some time and see.  Exponentially more concerned with their health at this point, for sure.  Can always change the background down the line again.  

Edited March 14, 2022 by jwcarlson

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

So boiling is my choice of sanitation with a lot of things of course there are times I understand some of those things aren't going to take it well. What I usually do is boil the water first then take it off the heat- THAT is when I put the items in the pot and leave it there until the water is cool enough for me to pull the items out. Often after that they are either completely air dried- or put to immediate use- if air drying when is sun available that is where they sit- in the light. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[jwcarlson]

I used these as weights on top of the sponges to hold them down, they weren't even completely under water.  I did probably leave them in there a bit too long.  

To be clear, I am not complaining or anything.  The other suggestion someone gave was to microwave.  I'm sure microwaving the sponge would be fine.  I do this to sanitize potting soil.  But if you microwave the ACO sponge filter you're going to end up needing a new sponge filter or microwave or perhaps both.  There's A LOT of metal in the base of it (which is what I did with one of the ruined one... whack it with a hammer until I could see inside of it).

[jwcarlson]

Still extremely bummed about being down to nine.  But the remainder, minus the one that barely eats, are doing well.  

 

They do like their nightly water change. 

[Brandon p]

Please don’t take this a disrespectful. I think you are over doing things. You have some of the best discus in the world if they are from Stendker. Since they are breed in Germany for years and Germany has harder water than discus normally Like. By changing water and wiping everything down no bacteria can form.  I know that discus don’t need substrate but it does help with bacteria. You have more drive than  a lot of people have in this chat you can do to much though. I have discus and have had some die. I just lost my four from wathley(spelling) after been in the hospital for a time. I’m almost sure it was due to the fact that it was time for a water change( once a month). The problem with there discus now is the keep ph at a low level. I have to use phosphoric acid to lower ph( there is a process to it you can’t just add the acid to the tank or the fish die). I know that you are looking for sponges seeded. If you have a second tank with one just take one from there. There are places/ people that will send you a seeded sponge but you don’t know where/what it came from. I can see you like things clean but maybe try an every other night water change especially in the 75, in the 10 things probably can process out. In my experience they love planted tanks with drift and moss or algae growing it. They like to graze on the algae. Keep tring I’m 100%!on your side. I love discus and you have some awesome ones. Discus keeping has changed some in the last 15 year I kept them as a teen in the 90’s and I have changes so much partly be the fish have be breed different and I found some stuff works and other doesn’t. Like meds I will only use two and the are not popular so I’m not saying unless asked. Keep it you will get it. I often have extra time and a descent researcher if you every need help that has documentation did I hear you have bees? 

[jwcarlson]

You certainly don't have to worry about offending me or anything 🙂

Re: overdoing it... maybe, but I'd to grow out really nice discus otherwise what's the point? 😄  My understanding is that means lots of food and pounding them with clean water.  At this point my biggest mistake was dumping the Fritz Zyme in... that must have caused some sort of crash (ph?) or bacterial?  Either way, it proved fatal.

I believe that I can change my way through the cycle based on a pretty large number of discus folks that say they don't necessarily exchange sponges, they just do large daily changes with prime and stability and eventually filters catch up.

 

Your thoughts are dissimilar to mine as I have not wiped down the sides or bottom for a couple days.  I will probably wipe the front tomorrow.  Then the sides the following day.  Then the back/wires then bottom.  I got right to the cusp of being cycled (ammonia and nitrites were 0 or maybe very very slightly above) before I blew it with the Zyme.

My tap water starts at 7 and ages to ~8.2 over 24 hours.  I am not currently doing anything to chase pH.  My understanding is that while my pH is high (and my water is hard as all get out) as long as all of that is stable, it's not a concern.  I cannot argue with any of this as my discus are (or at least were) growing very well.  Except the little dude.  I am tempted to crank up the temp in my 37 and plop him in there.  When he was alone in the 10 gallon he didn't eat, but will only take a couple pecks when there's other discus around.  So I'm wondering if maybe in a community tank he'd be willing to eat.

I have sponges and filters in another tank that I could bring over, but am genuinely afraid because of cross contamination.  Which might sound silly, but have seen enough and heard around about it that it doesn't seem worth it.  If I was trying to only change water weekly while allowing ammonia and nitrite to build up, then I would be more concerned.  As of now, I'm just trying for some safety factor.  

Yeah I've got bees.  I raise queens for my own use and to sell.  Also sell nucleus colonies and honey (obviously).  It started as a little hobby, but, not to toot my own horn... I have a knack for it and have grown from three purchases colonies to about 40 of them now (eight years).  It's morphed into a small business, which has probably taken a little bit of the fun out of it.  The main problem with bees as that the time required to maintain them is typically during daylight hours.  Hours of which are in short supply for me.  Conversely, I do all my discus maintenance after everyone else is in bed.  I've gotten exceedingly efficient at keeping bees over the years, though, and because I breed my own - over time I've got a bee that does pretty well with my management style.

Here's one of my 2019 queens, pictured in spring 2021 (her second production year): 

 

[Brandon p]

You sound like you have a plan and that is good a lot of people don’t have a clue and spend good money on a fish they know nothing about.I wasshould have made it more clear the point I was trying to make was if you buy seeded sponges you often don’t know what they have been in and at least if you used your own you know. I agree I don’t like to move sponges. The do sell some bacteria that is often use in making shrimp filter that is a power that you can put the. Powder on the sponges and it “seeded” the bacteria. It comes dry and is activated once wet. I don’t remember that name but I could look? I think wattley is having complaints because I can go to a breeder on eBay who has been breeding in his local water and not have problem putting them in my water. With there’s they are so good at maintaining ph and other thing that grow Beautiful Discus that people pay a lot for and they have trouble with them. I hope to get some more discus for my 115 gal soon, but they won’t be wattley. 
 

I asked about beekeeping because my family has done it since the late 1790’sor early 1800’s when they came from Germany. There now all over the country. I worked with my grandmother, grandfather and uncle through the 90’s when I was in school. They were either the #1 or 2 producers in the star of Fl. At one time my grandfather was one of less than a dozen people that could artificially inseminate queens. Most of the time we would pul a few frame from a hive and put in nucs so they would make a queen. He would make queens to sell but once africanized bees got here in the early 2000’s you could do that. You would get some nasty hives if they cross bred on there own. They are my small and my uncle is the last one left here. One year we sold 256 55gal barrels of palmetto honey. That’s almost 6 semi truck loads. But you know it can hit or miss and some times it was much lesss. It takes a lot of work and knowledge to keep bees im sure you will get the fish going as well

[Odd Duck]

@jwcarlson I think the water changes are fine, but I’m not sure you’re helping yourself with wiping down the sides of the tank.  That bacterial film is part of your beneficial bacteria.  Can you remind me what all filtration you have?  I know it’s all in here somewhere, but it’s late, and I’m tired.  Help this old brain work a little better and do a recap, please?  I see the double stack large ACO sponge, anything else?  Tank size where they are now?  Any other flow besides the sponges?

[jwcarlson]

@Odd DuckIt's just sponges.  Right now double stack, single, and one of the ones that hangs on the wall with two sponges about the size of soda cans.  They're in a 75.  Trying to keep it relatively low flow, I have been considering a smaller powerhead to connect to one of these sponges.  But I'm enjoying "no" flow, honestly.  Every tank I have ever had has always had at least one HOB, usually two, plus an air bubbler or wall.  

I do understand that the film is part of the BB, but have been cautioned about it harboring "bad stuff".  However, I think I'm coming off that a little and will either rotate what parts I am wiping down or will maybe not start wiping at all until I get to the point of zero ammonia for a longer stretch.  

I do think that the large, daily water changes prevent a lot of issues one might otherwise see cycling with fish in.  When my community tank dropped out of cycle I water changed my way through.  It definitely slows down the cycling process, but if I'm doing the maintenance anyway... *shrug*  On my community tank I did 50% water changes twice a day for about three weeks to get through it.  Fish never seemed to skip a beat.

Me seeking a sponge is simply part of trying to build a little safety margin.  At this point the goal isn't to get cycled ASAP, it's to make sure the fish are OK through the process.  I wouldn't just buy one of of ebay, but thought maybe there was someone "out there" selling fishless sponges or something. 😄  I have found some, but wouldn't be comfortable.  Like I said, I could take one of three filters off of my community tank and plop it over.  That would probably solve most of my cycling, but I would be nervous.  And I would also be nervous about dropping a mail order sponge in... so I fully realize I'm talking out of both side of my mouth! 🙂

More than anything I'm just thinking out loud.  Putting words "on paper" has always helped me think things through.  Water checked out fine after work last night and I don't feed after WC so they're in pretty pristine water for roughly 12 hours.  I'm still feeding at reduced levels, I don't think they'll be an issue it will just take awhile to get things rolling fully.

 

@Brandon pThat's pretty awesome with the bees.  Beekeeping has changed so drastically in the last 40 years.  Can't imagine 100+ years!  My dad and grandpa started keeping them in 1978.  Kept them strictly as a hobby, but when varroa was introduced they couldn't keep anything alive over winter and eventually quit because of that.  That's a lot of honey, I usually only produce 1500-2000# of honey per year.  My bees do pay for themselves and then some.  But honey harvest is actually my least favorite part of beekeeping.  I am trying to find the balance of selling off enough nucs and queens to get things a little flatter on the honey production curve.  I also haven't fed my bees in three years.  I've got a system that works pretty well with timing of what flows we have as well as keeping extra deeps on production colonies so I can dole out frames of feed to nucs in the summer/fall instead of filling feeders.  I winter in triple 10-frame deeps and sometimes a production colony will be 5 deeps and some (3-5) medium supers.

[Odd Duck]

On 3/16/2022 at 7:28 AM, jwcarlson said:

@Odd DuckIt's just sponges.  Right now double stack, single, and one of the ones that hangs on the wall with two sponges about the size of soda cans.  They're in a 75.  Trying to keep it relatively low flow, I have been considering a smaller powerhead to connect to one of these sponges.  But I'm enjoying "no" flow, honestly.  Every tank I have ever had has always had at least one HOB, usually two, plus an air bubbler or wall.  

I do understand that the film is part of the BB, but have been cautioned about it harboring "bad stuff".  However, I think I'm coming off that a little and will either rotate what parts I am wiping down or will maybe not start wiping at all until I get to the point of zero ammonia for a longer stretch.  

I do think that the large, daily water changes prevent a lot of issues one might otherwise see cycling with fish in.  When my community tank dropped out of cycle I water changed my way through.  It definitely slows down the cycling process, but if I'm doing the maintenance anyway... *shrug*  On my community tank I did 50% water changes twice a day for about three weeks to get through it.  Fish never seemed to skip a beat.

Me seeking a sponge is simply part of trying to build a little safety margin.  At this point the goal isn't to get cycled ASAP, it's to make sure the fish are OK through the process.  I wouldn't just buy one of of ebay, but thought maybe there was someone "out there" selling fishless sponges or something. 😄  I have found some, but wouldn't be comfortable.  Like I said, I could take one of three filters off of my community tank and plop it over.  That would probably solve most of my cycling, but I would be nervous.  And I would also be nervous about dropping a mail order sponge in... so I fully realize I'm talking out of both side of my mouth! 🙂

More than anything I'm just thinking out loud.  Putting words "on paper" has always helped me think things through.  Water checked out fine after work last night and I don't feed after WC so they're in pretty pristine water for roughly 12 hours.  I'm still feeding at reduced levels, I don't think they'll be an issue it will just take awhile to get things rolling fully.

 

Yes, your large water changes are good when forced into a fish in cycle.  A completely appropriate way to handle this situation.

I suppose it’s possible that your biofilm could harbor bad bacteria as well, but it can also serve to prevent bad bacteria from attaching by crowding them out.  That’s the main idea behind probiotics in people and animals.  Personally, I would leave the biofilm to develop.  There isn’t a clear indicator of any bacterial infection in your tank, so for now with the current status, biofilm is your friend.

I’m all for safety margin in biofiltraction.  I’m the woman over here routinely running about 40-60 gallons worth of sponge filtration on every 10 gallon tank and roughly the same proportionate overfiltration on all my tanks.  I’ve got sponge-packed and pre-filtered HOB’s on my 100 G worth about 180 gallons, plus 2 double stacked air-driven sponges worth about another 160 gallons at least.  Plus it’s heavily planted.  I’m all about biofiltration.  Heck, I’ve got about 20 gallons of biofiltration on my 2 gallon tank.

How would you feel about adding plants in pots?  Or emerse grown plants like pothos?  Let’s you still maintain a pretty pristine bottom but helps with your params?  Potted giant Val would look pretty awesome and give some cover for mental help for the fish.  It’s super soft and not going to hurt them.  I would start growing them in a different tank so they do any melting elsewhere.  3-4 pots packed with Val would be very cool, give them a refuge to reduce stress, and help stabilize things once established.

Try leaving your tank unwiped until your parameters settle.  Keep doing your water changes.  And drop a towel or blanket over 1/2 of the front of the tank.  You do have the lights off to reduce stress, right?  I guess I haven’t asked or talked about that, yet.

[jwcarlson]

I've got the lights back on at like 5%, which honestly seems to keep them a little more settled on average.  Might have to do with shadows/sillouettes.  I'd say they're pretty well back to normal and "happy".  They've adjusted really well to a sometimes chaotic house.  A bit of a step back when moved back to the bigger tank, but that was short lived.  They'll still rush up and eat from my hand when I'm putting food in and come greet (beg) anyone who walks to the tank.  Discus seem pretty good about letting you know when they're stressed and they don't seem to be exhibiting anything noticeable right now.

Lights were off for close to a week.  Other than room lights or natural lighting.  Today will be the first day that I put them back in "auto" except for turning them on during water changes so I could see a little better.  

I've thought about potting some plants and agree that it would be nice to do.  I am not having luck with the val in my community tank.  I have two pothos cuttings rooting in a jar and plan to add them to the tank at some point.  Probably would have done it by now if not for the setback last week.  I need to remember to pick-up something to hold them in the tank and simply have not remembered to do so.  Also have some philodendron that I could make cuttings of.  I have several cuttings from awhile back that are just now sending new shoots in a pot.  So I guess I could unpot those and use them too.  

My only concern with pothos like that is that the freeze dried black worms get to floating around a bit and might be difficult to clean out.  But I guess with a big water change I could pretty easily rinse roots out while I'm doing that.  I'm thinking I'll put them in a shower caddy or something like that.  I saw some 3D printed plant holders that would also be OK.  Another thought was to do bamboo, but we're just now approaching a time in which I could have some bamboo shipped because of temperatures.

My overall goal here is to grow these out which takes roughly a year to get closer to adult size (though I think they'll grow longer than that).  And then consider transitioning to something else as far as the tank goes.  Not sure what that might be.  Community, planted, etc.  Or maybe sell them all and put a bearded dragon in there. 😄

 

I cannot tell you the science behind wiping tanks down, but it seems universally recommended.  I haven't wiped sides or bottom for a week between qt and now back to the big tank (understanding any time in qt doesn't translate the film over to the big tank).  I'll let it slide for a bit 🙂

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by jwcarlson

[Odd Duck]

Glad to hear they are no longer acting stressed.  All this sounds like a good plan overall with emerse plants and potted Vals if you can coax them into cooperating.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@jwcarlsoncheck Etsy for the pothos keepers/planters. There’s some great ones they 3D print. 

Clean water is good water. I think it’s great your not chasing parameters. With discus I’ve always heard it’s about consistency and you’re dialing down to get there. Totally reasonable. 

Plants in planters are great. As you said you’re trying to build in to your system things that can support you long term over this next year. I think planting Pogostemon SO, Amazon swords or other easy to grow long and bushy plants that could grow fast and give cover as well as some additional biome. I use some aquasoil, crushed coral, lava rock and any inert substrate I have and plant into that. Some osmocote or root tabs in there help as well. 
 

Have fun, it’s hard jumping from one event to the next like this. I’ve been on a similar run lately so my sympathies as well as support as we can all need it when the 💩 hits the fan.

[jwcarlson]

@Beardedbillygoat1975

I think Etsy is probably where I'd seen them.  Pogo grows really well for me in my community tank.  I've got a bunch of it with all the other "clippings" in a bucket that I'm using to store plants I might want to use.  But I really don't have any use for them, so it's a bit of a waste at the moment.  Maybe someone locally would want them.  Don't know if Pogo would like the heat in the discus tank, but considering it's just sitting in a bucket... what's the harm.  Would do the diluted bleach sanitizing dip, probably.  

Also nervous of plants.

Do you see a theme here? 😄 😄

Pothos is probably a fair compromise to start.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Jason from RedFishBlueFish YT and fish shop went through his plant processing on a livestream some months back and it was very in-depth. Might help you with your plant jitters. I see no downsides using plants from a good source, quarantining, treating and using them judiciously in your tank. Crinum and aponogetons would be 2 others that would be fast growing and give you some cover for your discus. 

[Bevs1965]

I am in the UK, I have been doing exactly the same as you, I recommend feeding the Stendker goodheart beefheart a couple of times a day, the best advice I can give you is feed and water changes, I would do 30-40% every other day if you can, it stimulates the growth, I use a HMA filter for water changes, with good feeding and frequent water changes, keep them warm they will colour and grow better, less chance of a stunted Discus…Good luck.

https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/7-filter-media/
 

This website has saved me a fortune I have a filter full of pot scrubbers and a filter full of 30ppi foam from Swiss Tropical I had it shipped over, have a read through all the chapters it is brilliant advice.

[jwcarlson]

Beautiful fish, @Bevs1965!

Did you grow them out or purchase adults?

 

I do feed beefheart (my own grind) and freeze-dried australian black worms.  Daily 70% water changes. 🙂

Going to look over the filter link.