Electrical for fish room

[ARMYVET]

On 7/6/2021 at 7:09 AM, Jimmy said:

Sub panel being in the shop, right? Thank you for the feedback 

Yes the sub panel will be in the shop and all of your electrical for the fish will come from it.   Trust me...by doing it this way you will have peace of mind knowing you can grow if wanted or needed without any problems of overloading. 

Abide by one rule....NO EXTENSION CORDS IN THE FISH ROOM.  If mapped out right you will never need one!  

[Jimmy]

On 7/6/2021 at 5:32 AM, ARMYVET said:

Yes the sub panel will be in the shop and all of your electrical for the fish will come from it.   Trust me...by doing it this way you will have peace of mind knowing you can grow if wanted or needed without any problems of overloading. 

Abide by one rule....NO EXTENSION CORDS IN THE FISH ROOM.  If mapped out right you will never need one!  

Thanks again. After much consideration going to reach out to a electrician or two that family suggests. I think getting 50amp out there adding more gcfi outlets than I need is a good option. Outlets being pretty high up. I may need to upgrade my main breaker

[ARMYVET]

It was my pleasure to be a help …please don’t hesitate to ask any questions 

[Streetwise]

I am a network guy, and I really appreciate the sparky work that I see on the forum.

[Andy's Fish Den]

Just a suggestion here, something I had seen in someone else's fishroom and I am going to do if I ever build a new room, run a circuit and put all out lets in ceiling to plug lights into. This way you can hang the light fixtures and not have cords hanging down behind tanks, and if you are not using lights with built in timers like Fluval 3.0, you can easily add a timer to the entire circuit to have all the lights go on and off at same time. 

[Jimmy]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:46 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

Just a suggestion here, something I had seen in someone else's fishroom and I am going to do if I ever build a new room, run a circuit and put all out lets in ceiling to plug lights into. This way you can hang the light fixtures and not have cords hanging down behind tanks, and if you are not using lights with built in timers like Fluval 3.0, you can easily add a timer to the entire circuit to have all the lights go on and off at same time. 

This is a great idea, I figured I’d put them up high on the wall but I suppose the ceiling makes the most sense 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/6/2021 at 7:32 AM, ARMYVET said:

NO EXTENSION CORDS IN THE FISH ROOM

After reading this thread, and @ARMYVET's advice, I feel like I need to reconsider my approach to...  Well, electricity.  I've got GCFI all over, but same goes for extension cords.  Indeed, I am not sure how I would even begin to power my setup without them.  That said, I'm going to be thinking about it seriously now.  Thanks!

[ARMYVET]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:46 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

After reading this thread, and @ARMYVET's advice, I feel like I need to reconsider my approach to...  Well, electricity.  I've got GCFI all over, but same goes for extension cords.  Indeed, I am not sure how I would even begin to power my setup without them.  That said, I'm going to be thinking about it seriously now.  Thanks!

Its not that the extensions cords are bad per say but they lead to overloading circuits because its in ou nature to plug into power strips that have 10 outlets on them and just keep on plugin and plugging in because there is an open slot an before you know it the wire in that wall is blistering hot and eventually something is going to give.  You alway hope the breaker trips but sometimes it doesn't because its right below the threshold but in your types of houses with wooden framed houses...that's kindling. 

If my words here has helped you to rethink things and it save you the potential of a fire...I am eternally grateful!  

Please feel free to reach out if you have any questions! 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:23 AM, ARMYVET said:

If my words here has helped you to rethink things and it save you the potential of a fire...I am eternally grateful!

Without trying to divert from the OP's thread. 

No, no.  It is I who am grateful to you, sir!  Your kind and patient reply (though not even directed to me) has caused be to rethink and research my use of extension cords.  I'm not overloading them, but there are so many considerations with them I had never known.  It's opened my eyes.  For the remainder of my life. 

[lefty o]

something to always keep in mind, extension cords are for temporary use.

[Jimmy]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:02 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Without trying to divert from the OP's thread. 

No, no.  It is I who am grateful to you, sir!  Your kind and patient reply (though not even directed to me) has caused be to rethink and research my use of extension cords.  I'm not overloading them, but there are so many considerations with them I had never known.  It's opened my eyes.  For the remainder of my life. 

I’m glad I asked this forum is fantastic. It has me rethinking my little room.

[ARMYVET]

@Jimmy This hobby is supposed to bring us joy. Sometimes unintentionally without knowing it we may do things that can make it not so enjoyable or downright dangerous as in the case of the electrical setup I saw in some of the fish rooms I visited.  

I kindly offered them the same advice I gave to you and even offered to one to help and in both instances I was told that they didn't think they had a problem.  Mind you in neither instance were they electricians or concerned as they walked across floors with puddles and indoor extension cords running all over the place including the floors.  

I can only lead the horse to water...not make him drink it....If he choses to not drink and dies of thirst...I can at least say I tried and continue doing what I do and that is try to help people.  

I would love to see pictures of your fish room ....you should start a journal documenting the stages as it comes together. Not only will we get to enjoy it but it could help others with questions they may have and thru your learning experience you can help others.

 

[Jimmy]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:42 AM, ARMYVET said:

@Jimmy This hobby is supposed to bring us joy. Sometimes unintentionally without knowing it we may do things that can make it not so enjoyable or downright dangerous as in the case of the electrical setup I saw in some of the fish rooms I visited.  

I kindly offered them the same advice I gave to you and even offered to one to help and in both instances I was told that they didn't think they had a problem.  Mind you in neither instance were they electricians or concerned as they walked across floors with puddles and indoor extension cords running all over the place including the floors.  

I can only lead the horse to water...not make him drink it....If he choses to not drink and dies of thirst...I can at least say I tried and continue doing what I do and that is try to help people.  

I would love to see pictures of your fish room ....you should start a journal documenting the stages as it comes together. Not only will we get to enjoy it but it could help others with questions they may have and thru your learning experience you can help others.

 

I will make sure to report back, I’m merely planning but have my wife’s support. She said get a electrician but even if it is a trusted acquaintance I suspect it will be spendy. But I was already afraid of overloading the circuit. So peace of mind and safety is worth a million bucks. Also I should invest right

[Jimmy]

On 7/6/2021 at 5:14 AM, ARMYVET said:

No problem....all this discussion had me thinking and rechecking all that I am doing as well so thank you for that.  My subpanel in the garage/fishroom is an 80 amp sub (ability to increase to 150 if needed)  and will house 3 20 amp GFCI breakers with the ability to add more if necessary all running to my generator panel. (I have a whole house generator...we live in hurricane alley) If the power goes out the generator kicks in and the fish room keeps on running....well at least that is the plan.  

 

[Jimmy]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:16 PM, Jimmy said:

 

So I’m gonna lean on you if you have the time. I talked to my wife and she has encouraged me to get a electrician. Huge win LOL. I asked her what if it costed upwards of 1000 or even 2000 bucks and I still had her support. My family gave me a reference to someone they have worked with a few times that they like. He’s going to come out to give me a bid and hopefully some consultation. Ultimately my concerns are that I don’t have enough available power left in my panel so is it simple as pulling the main out and putting in a higher capacity breaker? I have 2 open spots but I don’t know enough to safely diagnose.

it being a small room, I mean small like 6x7 to 8x8 how much of a heater will I really need if properly insulated. It’s going to be in my detached shop which isn’t insulated. Can you over insulate? Realistically if I follow the 10 watts per square foot I should essentially be able to get away with a 750/1000 watt heater? I’m ok with seasonal dips. I originally planned on a radiant oil heater but maybe a cadet on thermostat would suffice? 
will I need to get a exhaust fan for summer or would a dehumidifier cover my basis?
 

Also, do I need to vent this room in any way? I believe I’m going to use foam insulated board and finish with drywall.

please let me know if this is excessive questioning LOL. I will have a lot tied into this so I’d rather be informed and execute to the best of my ability. 

 

[Streetwise]

I would get outlets with built-in USB if I were building a fish room.

[ARMYVET]

If the main wiring coming into the panel can handle a larger load the. It’s as simple and plugging in a new larger main breaker. If not then larger main wires from the pole to the meter box need to be run.

Over insulate an issue?  Not to my knowledge.  I would insulate the space as well as possible..if you double the r value of the recommended insulation you only need 7 watts per sqft.  So a 500 watt heater would be enough and save electricity. 

An exhaust fan may be necessary if you room gets hot in the summer.  Hot room means hot water.  An exhaust fan helps keep water temps down thru evaporative cooling!

My fish room is air conditioned so no exhaust fan or de humidifier needed.  But I have to run the ac so trade one for the other lol

Never too many questions.  That’s what I here  for …to help if I can

 

 

[Jimmy]

On 7/8/2021 at 2:16 PM, ARMYVET said:

If the main wiring coming into the panel can handle a larger load the. It’s as simple and plugging in a new larger main breaker. If not then larger main wires from the pole to the meter box need to be run.

Over insulate an issue?  Not to my knowledge.  I would insulate the space as well as possible..if you double the r value of the recommended insulation you only need 7 watts per sqft.  So a 500 watt heater would be enough and save electricity. 

An exhaust fan may be necessary if you room gets hot in the summer.  Hot room means hot water.  An exhaust fan helps keep water temps down thru evaporative cooling!

My fish room is air conditioned so no exhaust fan or de humidifier needed.  But I have to run the ac so trade one for the other lol

Never too many questions.  That’s what I here  for …to help if I can

 

 

This is a 200 watt panel right?

I’m concerned about moisture build up and wondering if I can totally seal it off. I could also run an ac and make a port for it no problem.

someone suggested r value of 5 for walls and 10-15 for ceiling in my area. A room this small I could easily bump this up 

[lefty o]

are you planning on building out the walls? as in 2x4 studs and sheet rock, or just letting it fly. if building out, batt insulation will crank up the r value to 11-12 depending on what you choose. for a simple r-5 glue on 1" pink polystyrene sheet insulation. in case pink isnt your color, you can paint over the pink sheets. i did the ceiling in my garage with the 1" pink sheets, painted first when flat on the ground and easy to do then put up. stuff cuts easy, and is light enough for a 7yr old to do the job.😎

[Jimmy]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:39 PM, lefty o said:

are you planning on building out the walls? as in 2x4 studs and sheet rock, or just letting it fly. if building out, batt insulation will crank up the r value to 11-12 depending on what you choose. for a simple r-5 glue on 1" pink polystyrene sheet insulation. in case pink isnt your color, you can paint over the pink sheets. i did the ceiling in my garage with the 1" pink sheets, painted first when flat on the ground and easy to do then put up. stuff cuts easy, and is light enough for a 7yr old to do the job.😎

Batt insulation? I will look up all my options. I will being framing in with 2x4 and drywall yes.

[lefty o]

batt=roll insulation comes in rolls of 16" wide by 3" thick to stuff between studs.

[Jimmy]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:29 PM, lefty o said:

batt=roll insulation comes in rolls of 16" wide by 3" thick to stuff between studs.

Wonder if I was to do that, then finished with foam board rather than drywall how effective my room would be at managing heat? Then seal the seams of the board with tape.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:02 AM, Jimmy said:

Wonder if I was to do that, then finished with foam board rather than drywall how effective my room would be at managing heat? Then seal the seams of the board with tape.

I've used the 2" foam board as divider walls in unfinished parts of the basement.  When moisture was a concern, I caulked between the boards and ran down the seam to seal it.  I'm not sure the foil tape will take paint, but I haven't tried.  It does provide a pretty solid moisture barrier though!  I've also done similar with batting then used the 1" attached to the studs with screws through very large washers to finish (same seam sealing), and then caulked the screws to prevent moisture intrusion.  In that area the moisture is intentionally high (it's a grow room for some high elevation tropical plants and they are misted 3 times a day).  Again, I have not had issues with moisture.  So, I think what you are suggesting in combination with @lefty o's advice can work.  I've done it.  Well, except the paint.  The space is super ugly, but very functional. 

[ARMYVET]

@JimmyYes that is a 200 amp panel as it sits.  Now depending on the size of the main feed wires coming in from the pole...that will determine if you can just "plug and play"  a larger main breaker.  I am suspecting your wire might be 4/0 feeders.  If so you can safely upgrade to 250 amps...to go to 300 amp service you will need to upgrade the main feeders to 300 KCMIL.  

Now whether or not 200 or upgrading to 250 would be enough....I would be surprised if it wouldnt be.  They can run a load test as your panel sits right now to see how much of the 200 you are using.  Most people dont come close to using all 200 in the panel so the addition of 50 amps to the overall capacity is more than enough for what you would be doing.    

[ARMYVET]

The biggest users of electricity in a house are the Hvac-heating/cooling, stoves, clothes washers/dryers, water heaters,

Once those are calculated for, the next level usage comes from intermittent users of electricity. Stuff that comes on and goes off.  Your refrigerator/freezer , lighting, entertainment (tv/stereo).

Lastly is all the stuff that you think is off but still uses electricity...and some of that stuff is in the category above...tv, stereo, DVD player, charging stations. But this is a miniscule amount compared to everything else but it all adds up.  

You have a 200 amp service now and you not using it all....Going to a 250 amp service would most likely provide you with everything you would need for your house and fish room with headroom.