mountaintoppufferkeeper

I say whatever fish you enjoy keeping the most is the easiest to learn breeding with because you are that much more into their system set up, observation of the tank, and feeding /conditioning the group or pair. Even the percieved impossible species are attainable if I am all in on them. (Betta macrosoma in 2018, Pao puffers in 2021). Anything that you enjoy keeping that also exhibits some level of parental care is a good choice in my opinion. The parents do the hard work for you and you can often feed the same foods in one tank vs having a system to get fry from eggs and then raise those on micro foods until brine shrimp etc can be fed. I view mouthbrooding, cave spawing, and spawn guarding anything as easier than some livebearers. Cichlids, a few characin (tetra) species, some betta, and some puffers fall into these categories of spawn guarding. Livebearers have often been pretty heavy fry eaters (even in heavy plant cover for me) and often seasonal breeders. Goodeids, wild swordtails, limia, and true freshwater halfbeaks have all been fairly hard to keep going for me for these reasons. My black prince goodeids, Charcodon audax El Toboso, for example are especially prone to that fry eating and are seasonal spawners. They breed every 60 days or so for about half the year 3 or 4 batches a year per female if im lucky. Livebearers - like harder water, heavy plants in my setups Variatus platy Guppy ( though ive never really got into them) Goodeids - big fry are easy to feed day 1 Cichlids - like territory suitable to defend in my set ups Kribs - Pelvicachromis any species you like Crenicichla regani African butterfly cichlid ( they never stop up here...ever) African cichlid mouthbrooders aratus, egyptian dwarf mouthbrooders, etc Shell dweller cichlids - neolampralogus species and lamprologus species Betta and catfish - well fed and plant cover for fry to hid and feed in Betta Albimarginata, macrostoma, antuna, etc mouthbrooders Corydoras (most species) - heavy plants down low, good food, water changes, no snails. Some survive and grow in tank with enough cover for eggs to avoid predation.

AI have read the sections in the house bill ( pages 1661-1665) and the introduced senate bill on ammending the lacey act to a presumptive ban on importing, possessing, or crossing state lines with any species not approved by the secretary of the interior. The Lacey act defines wild as any creatures that, whether or not raised in captivity, normally are found in a wild state. The Which makes all aquarium inhabitants "wild" for the purposes of the law. This includes eggs and successive generations of captive born fish. For me it was concerning enough to voice my views to my Senators. The Sec of the Interior, if the ammendment is passed as written in the house bill, is who will define what minimum quantities imported means for eaxh species approved. You can already theoretically purchase a permit for many otherwise prohibited species under the lacey act through the US Fish and Wildlife Service but im sure thats a process and a half to do and not free. I imagine the presumptive ban on importation of transportation probably wont be as good or as bad as we think it could be. I also tend to view it as a way to be able to quickly change the status of a species under lacey when deemed necessary. It seems like a well intentioned paved road to make keeping species less enjoyable and more expensiveand risky to participate in moving forward. Im also not a lawyer and will not enjoy having to stay well versed in the lacey act if these ammendments become law

@Sandra the fish rookie I use the ziss hatchery for the baby brine with the coop eggs and they run on a 3 day rotation here when feeding fry or conditioning adults. I just harvest at 36 hours and reset the hatchery. I have also used bottles before with the same timeline of results. I do not keep the brine shrimp in there longer than 36 hours. I am only using it for the baby brine size of the shrimp. if I keep it going without a reset they generally will crash between 40 and 48 hours up here. I believe they are fairly nutritious but like all foods not a complete food by themselves. I rotate the puffer fry from live brine and vinegar eels to daphnia, whiteworms, cherry shrimp, snails, and earthworms I have done adult brine shrimp accidentally in the dish version of a hatcher before. Those are alien looking level nuts. I would probably try and do a longer term brine shrimp colony using a 10 gallon + tank with the standard salt concentration to hatch and some sort of filtration. That set up would also need some sort of water changing routine and maintaining salinity if the plan was a colony of different sizes. I am not that level of dedication to them or the chemistry of salt water. I hatch live brine myself in a hatcher as needed. If I had a LFS and needed them occasionally while I was there I would buy brine shrimp from a store especially if they had mature brine shrimp and that was something I was trying to feed to fish. ** additional info ** After further review of some of my fishroom references on live foods : the common brine shrimp culture is essentially an 80 degree saltwater version of a daphnia culture. The more volume of water is better for culture stability whixh is why it is done outside in simething like those plastic kid pools in some areas of the country. The shrimp eat similar foods to daphina like spirulina powder, green water, yeast mixes, planktons. The key to brine shrimp appears to be to try and keep the salinity matched between the water you add and the water in your brine shrimp culture tank. Im not a saltwater guy but id assume that is the same for all salt water fish. That consistency should limit some stress on the brine shrimp and lower the risk of reduced production or a complete crash of the culture Harvesting adults normally starts around day 30 with a fish net of a coarse enough mesh that it catches the larger sizes of shrimp needed to feed while the smaller shrimp can pass through the mesh and continue to grow and eventually reproduce. I am gueseing if a consistent portion of the bigger shrimp were harvested every 3 days or so it could be a reliable long term culture.

@Vinm they look great. Its probably me just trying to find a difference where there might not be but does the male have a shorter "nose" than the female? In the photo, The distance of the eyes to the top of the mouth looks to be shorter in the top puffer vs the bottom.

It works decsnt enough for me. I used 1/4" thick cast cell acrylic and weldon 4 acrylic glue to bond all seams into one piece. I was trying for the thinnest possible that still holds shape and is in theory tough enough for the puffers, not too expensive or hard to find, and is still fairly easy to cut with a scoring tool. I have not tried acrylic for an in tank sump/filter but I would guess the silicone would be more to hold it in place vs bond to it. I think a sump set up like that could possibly be done with twin wall polycarbonate and lighting diffuser "egg crate" if all glass were not an option. I havent tried either no idea if they work personally.

Day 3 . Fun to see those tiny puffer fry zipping around from overhead. Everything in the photo not duckweed is a Pao cf. palustris fry. I am looking to get 30-40 to 30 days in a 20 gallon then to 3 months in a 50 gallon grow out if we get them eating this week. This batch should be fun to improve witb even if that is learning what to not try next batch.

same here I haven't found a better way than that

My fahaka was a fan of ramshorn snails, mts, mystery snails, and cherry shrimp before moving out to a permanent home for a friend who wanted a fahaka and had a bigger tank. I assume that snails and crayfish work for keeping their beak trimmed. The ramshorn were the primary food sources up to its departure at 6" or so and i had plants to allow for the cherry shrimp to escape and hide. My plan following that was mystery snails and crayfish but i never got that far with that puffer. To the best of my knowledge crayfish are mostly scavengers that eat anything but if I am planning on using them as a food source I would view the food they eat as nutrition for my puffer; if its not good enough for my puffer its not good enough for the food culture I am feeding them. I have just started on the dwarf crayfish path ( about 4 times the size of a cherry shrimp as adults). I do have berried females and soon to be full with the crayfish version of shrimplets... crayfishlets? If crayfish are legal in your area, my process is to keep the crayfish species similar to cherry shrimp. Neutral ph good mineral content, caves or tubes to molt in, plants to provide cover, decent food quality, a variety of foods to gutload them. The dwarf crayfish culture tank is a polyculture with ramshorn snails and neocaradina. It is a 26"x18"x15" tank full of java moss and subbwassertang with a box filter that has crused coral for buffering. I feed shrimp foods, spirulina flake, nano blocks, pretty much everything and the colonies just grow. Ramshorn are pretty good puffer food for me they reproduce fast and grow like crazy on spirulina flake and any other quality food you have. My personal experience is they should work for a good long while with a fahaka. I could not get the mystery snails going but figured those could work for the life of the fahaka with adult mystery snails being my staple shelled food for the adult fahaka. I also culture earthworms for puffers which i would bet would be a food for a fahaka as well as insects and clams with a vitamin soak. In my opinion a puffer can eat its body weight in a sitting and especially when growing. I likely could not have too many snails or grow enough of the crawfish / shrimp to make that more than a once or twice a week food.

25Jan22 Male has left the cave the remaining eggs hatched and swam off in the 75 gallon. My buddy is now expecting his post spawning feast. A great day to be a mountain top puffer for him and the two females.

@Vinm That is a great looking setup and great information on the process of getting a pair. I also tend to view the larges as the female in my trio based off of how they behave when showing courtship behaviors. I am curious if you see any difference in the head shape or proportions of the mouth to eyes etc between the two? I haven't noticed any in my group but there are other pao that seem to have slight differences in these ratios. If you have one of those wyze type cameras I do use those to do a bit of surveillance on my groups and have used the IR function to see their activities at night. I did try the ziss tumbler with the palustris eggs but it did not work for me; it was my first time trying so likely just my inexperience with the set up but they all went bad quickly for some reason. After that experience I have not attempted to tumble puffer eggs again. I have had success using the coop specimen container with methylene blue (MB) at a concentration of a light blue tinge to the water. I put 1 drop in a container with some tank water in another container and siphon that solution through the airline to hopefully sanitize it before I use to siphon the eggs; I then siphon a little of the MB into the container then start the siphon through the airline with water from parents tank. For the Pao cf palustris, I take a long pair of tongs and use those to hold and guide the already primed airline into the cave and siphon the eggs out of there and into the container. I put that container floating/hanging inside a tank that I run at 74-76 degrees with a rigid airline tube bubbling 2 bubbles per second or so to maintain a little water movement. Once they hatch out I put a cube of polyfilter in to help maintain water quality and remove the remaining MB then feed them in there for 14 to 21 days before releasing them into a grow out tank. I may just be lucky but I have not had one egg go bad using that container method.

Me too - the guy with 3 adult, twelve 3 month old, and probably 75 1 day old Pao cf palustris

Beyond the pea puffer, Carinotetraodon travancoricus, i do not know of one. Redeye puffers of Carinotetraodon like the irrubesco and similar are generally on the smaller size. I haven't personally kept any redeyes (yet) but would consider them to be more of a 20 long or bigger puffer based on the reported adult size of 2" to 2.5".

Bigger is bigger volume wise. I haven't ever done a single pea puffer and defer to those who keep them for better advice. If I had a 5 that needed a resident i would try a single pea puffer and rearrange the plants etc occasionally to keep the puffer interested in the tank. This is an older video Cory did on the Pea puffer

Went ahead and pulled about 50% of the spawn today. The male has actually adjusted his strategy a bit he now will sit on the eggs and block the airline from sucking them up instead of actively attacking it. This is the 4 month old pao cf palustris and this spawn with fry actively hatching in the coop specimen container the background.

vinm123 read my mind when they were suggested on the wednesday stream. These guys were already being prepped for shipment. Tetraodon miurus : 5 wildcaught adolescents 1-1.5" added yesterday to a 26x18x12 (+/- 20 gallon) colony growout tank with blasting media substrate. The tank is an overflow sump system with their 20 gallon and three 26x18x15 (+/-28 gallon) tanks. Based of the palustris fry growth rates my guess is these are 1 or 2 months old. The color variation and ability to change color to communicate or camouflage is pretty cool to see. 2 larger solid colored seem to stay together. The tank is 73-76 degrees fahrenheit 7.0 ph 300tds. Daphnia, pond snails, ramshorn, blackworms, scuds, all in their tank to start. Whiteworms and smaller earthworms added to welcome them. They are very active and have eaten earthworms and scuds to this point. The three smaller of the group remain darker toned. This is the above congo puffer camouflaged into the substrate (blasting media) The more orange toned congo really wants to go play with the dogs in the snow Whatever happens this should be fun to raise them to adults and learn their group dynamics vs the Pao species I am working with .

I once had a diy co2 set up go full open overnight and woke up to 18 bucktooth tetra deaths. Worst fishroom morning ever. ****Not death but one that fakes it occasionally **** This is 3 minutes later. He just ate his body weight in worms this morning . This is 3 mins earlier he held this for 15 minutes. He also has always enjoyed floating belly up since I got him in 2018. Weird guy.

Nice set up

I think we all know my vote 😄 Besides puffers, id say some of the loaches sumo,panda, unique color forms of "khuli", etc

@Beardedbillygoat1975 I don’t really feel qualified to recommend one species over another to anyone else even highly skilled keepers like yourself but my short answer is I recommend all of them. I have yet to meet one I didn't enjoy keeping. I have kept a few puffer species and made some observations that might help narrow it down. I think any puffer can easily decide to kill everything in its tank at any moment so for me the tank with a puffer or puffers is theirs and the rest is allowed in it at their discretion. I have some puffer knowledge that might help decide though. I personally pick the species that I think I will enjoy watching and caring for. If I am being totally honest, I give extra consideration to anything that is believed to be near impossible to breed in the aquarium or thought to be impossible to keep as a group. More of a personal challenge of sorts to break the code. My favorites are Pao puffers but that mostly started because I rejected the common belief that the ambush puffers couldn't be kept in a colony and were solitary sedentary bumps on logs in all circumstances. I was fully prepared with plans B and C if I was wrong in my view. My goal is to bring 6 individuals to start a colony of all the species I keep including puffer species (when available /possible) and let it all sort itself out over time down to a pair etc. I really enjoy my hairy puffer group (3 bought in 18-19 together as a group of 3) and of course the Mekong river puffers (Male Female, Female trio down from 6 purchased adults plus regular spawns and F1 adolescents) are great. The puffers I am keeping: 1.) Pao baileyi Hairy Puffer 50gallon Aquasky light at 30% 77F 7.0 300 TDS planted + caves a. My favorite puffer I haven’t yet bred b. 3 puffer colony (“likely” : Male, Male, Female) I have kept four total over the years. One individually and my current 3 as a colony. The guess on the male vs female breakdown is just based on behaviors and who controls what cave. No successful spawning yet so not 100% sure. My personal experience is that most are way more active and personable than people think and even more so if kept with other hairy puffers. I base that off of removing one of the three to their own tank and it becoming less active and responsive to me until moved back with the pair. When they are hungry they will come out and swim the glass, make eye contact with me, look at the top, look back at me, then repeat until I give them worms or similar food. Normally the smallest (likely male) is the most active and always following me around the room by swimming midwater and being generally curious what I am up to. The other two are generally happy to keep an eye on me and watch from a perch of some kind vs actively swim. 2.) Pao cf. palustrus Mekong River Puffer 75gallon 77F 7.0 300 TDS planted + caves a. My favorite puffer for obvious reasons b. 3 puffer colony ( Male, Female, Female) They are pretty “chippy” for lack of a better term. I do not have one of the twelve 3-month-old fry who doesn’t have a bit of superficial damage from feeding run ins or disagreeing with a sibling. I believe that the males as many more aggressive than the females even as fry. The 75 gallon well planted houses the male and his two females because of the line-of-sight breaks, heavy plants, and good food. They do not fight exactly but the male runs half of the tank and only allows the females over there to feed with him or when one is spawning in his cave with him. The all will come out and swim the glass when they see you, they also like to watch the backyard occasionally which they can see from the end of the tank. The puffers I previously kept: 3.) Tetraodon lineatus Nile/Fahaka Puffer I have kept one of these to 8” or so a very quick to take off and run into things puffer. I have not seen that in the Pao species I have kept. 4.) Carinotetraodon travancoricus Pea Puffer Kept as a group of 6 they were pretty aggressive even more than the Mekong Puffers are. They were always fighting each other in my tank despite the space 40 breeder, heavy plants and food available ramshorns, bloodworms, cherry shrimp, repashy. 5.) Tetraodon schoutedeni Spotted Congo Puffer I have only kept one but this was a very active and engaging puffer in my setups. Did not get flightly and run into things as often as the fahaka did either. The currently known puffers I will try keep eventually: 6.) Tetraodon miurus Potato Puffer / Congo Puffer This is next on my list to get a colony growing up and possibly breeding. This will be my first true Congo River system species to try and grow as a colony. This will be a big learning experience either way once started. 7.) Carinotetraodon salivator Striped Redeye Puffer I have been really considering the redeyes since October or so myself. I have discovered that redeyes are most often imported in Fall and was told that is due to seasonal fluctuations which allow for them to be caught in the wild during our Fall season. When fall comes around and if I can get 6 these will be added. The redeyes are arguably rare due to the locations and seasonal availability. I think it would be fun to try and get them going as captive raised. This look is my favorite of the redeye species currently known. 8.) Carinotetraodon borneensis Borneo Redeye Puffer My 1b redeye puffer I would like to work on both if they ever show up in retail

@Patrick_G No sir they will be around in larger numbers up here. The Pao cf. palustris will have a significant portion of the fish room forever and I expect I will try and have fry and adults in a few tanks forever. I am even working on a DIY acrylic in tank display /divider to limit the damage when feeding larger foods and improve my process on selective breeding in the future. If I ever move any out of the fishroom that will probably be useful to keep those who move on with the best fins and blemish free bodies before they go. At this point I am just planning on what would be a fun next challenge to tackle down the road a bit. The redeyes are on the short list for me.

We are nearly 3 months now with 12 Pao cf palustris juveniles +/- 2" long and cohabitating in a 20 gallon they have been growing out in. Mostly happy in there together but we occasionally have fin nips or small scars from group feedings and brief puffer arguments that are almost certainly between males. They have learned how to control their pointy ends a bit now which is helpful. If i did not have well established cultures of earthworms, whiteworms, ramshorns snails, cherry shrimp, daphnia polycultured with tubifex worms, blackworms, live baby brine, vinegar eels, and soon dwarf crayfish (egged up female below) it would be hard to raise a large spawn off of frozen or prepared foods they eat frequently and a large amount per feeding. Today the "food bill" for the 12 growing puffers was forty 8" nightcrawlers 1/4 cup of live daphina. They eat more often and way more food that my adults do. I will hopefully get another puffer species to work on along with successful Pao cf palustris project, and the not yet successful Pao baileyi "hairy puffer" project started in 2018/2019. If my hairy puffer adults ever breed for me like @Vinm has had with hairy puffers, I will be thankful for that having that personal learning experience.

My breeder Pao palustris male will eat all eggs occasionally and then guard the next batch like a gladiator. I bet there is a method to the Pao baileyi and Pao palustris madness on that. It has happened twice for me where a whole spawn vanishes around day 2 and then a big batch gets going shortly after

I'm looking forward to seeing them grow for you. Such a great puffer species to work with. Do they change colors like the adults as they grow and learn to camouflage? Have you seen any do the puffing up exercise yet? When one of my palustris fry did that the first time i about lost it....and of course i was just in awe and didn't snap a photo. Congrats on the great success with these.

I second @Colu, I have even gone from the 3 up to 7 days occasionally. Not adding any food for a 7 days fast has worked out for me in the past (so long as the fish are past their fry stage). I generally use frozen cyclops or frozen daphnia and less often the frozen bloodworms when doing frozen. Baby brine shrimp, at least anecdotally, has likely helped solve and avoid bloat issues for me. I also occasionally thaw and crush some frozen peas. My dwarf chain loaches will eat pretty much everything I give them ruffage or not.

A) Do you have a bunch of empty tanks that you have room to keep running (like Dean and Cory....not at their level with that many....but a sizeable room...kinda like them)? My fishroom is just a downstairs open room and acts as a bit of a temperature stabilizer for the house. Split level mountain house with a sliding glass door and a window in that room. The "auxiliary" fish room is a rack of mostly live food cultures in the furnace room next to it. 15x20x20 room tanks along 3 walls and maybe a 10x12x10 with a a rack of 6 to 12 tanks depending on layout options used. I do have a few empty tanks.....my " just in case" tanks. 😁 Those and most of my room are various sizes of polycarbonate lab tanks (zebra danio studies etc) or restaurant supply food grade soup storage containers (with lids) i like them because I can swap out however I want to in my racks and could theoretically run them in on a sterilization setting in a dishwasher if i ever needed to do so. They are assortments of : 26x18x15 26x18x12 26x18x9 26x18x6 18x12x9 18x12x6 12x9x9 6x12x6 Mostly those are just fun to do projects in for me quick and easy using the quick connect fittings to the overflow sump. But i designed it so i could drain a big tank and replace it with any of the smaller tanks in a minute or two. They also stack so any extra are all in a 26x18x15 one rack is mostly live food cultures or attempts at cultures of: cherry shrimp, blackworms, tubifex worms, snails, daphnia, Dwarf crayfish. B) Do you just solely focus on breeding, and not have a display tank / sell them to your LFS / fish club / other? (think one maybe two tanks dedicated) I try to make them all tanks for my enjoyment. Every tank has substrate, snails, worms/scuds, and live plants. My goal is to keep interesting comfortable tanks that make fish happy and healthy enough to breed. That part is a bonus for me and never really intended but generally expected ( I do not separate anyone out of the tanks unless its a divider for a time out or a hospital tank need. I collect eggs or fry as they come) I haven't made it a regular thing with moving fish out to condition. I have a 75 acrylic for the adult Pao cf palustris breeding colony 3 x 50 gallon acrylic tsnks 50: the colony of pao baileyi 50: the orinoco pike pair with pleco colonies or L169 and L129 50: the colonies of African Butterfly Fish, Baby Dolphin, African mudfish 20 gallon acrylic: has become my fry grow out display tank which housed the Crenicichla Regani dwarf pike fry last January and the Pao cf palustris fry currently. Its decent size has its own stand and an aquasky light. C) Other - please specify For me I have always done an hour or two per day just relaxing feeding observing the tanks but i also set it up with light timers,inkbird heater regulators, auto feeders as needed, and enough plants with substrate to sustain the system. That set up generally gives my tanks enough live food to keep everyone going for arguably indefinitely to cover vacations etc. We don't have neighbors up here so no one is really feeding them for me. I automate and augment the system with my observations, including watching and reviewing the wyze camera, and interactions and mostly let them do their thing.