mountaintoppufferkeeper

I do feed daphnia semi regularly. I havent had much success getting them to last long in with fish mouths. Even if there are heavy plants my fish tend to eat them all immediately in my tanks. An auto feeder is about the best way I have found to level out the feeding since it will feed a tank on the schedule I set and last for up to a month before needing a refill. I can then just supplement with live foods like daphnia when i am around. The other option ive used is a banquet block / vacation block etc. a time release food that fish work on for up to 3 days I havent notice it fouling the water in my tanks when i have used one. I also am of then my opinion most fish, that are adult sizes, can happliy go much longer than we think without food.

Late to the party but happy to have found this thread. Ive had a few species I suppose. I went into the wayback machine for a few of these and added a few notes I couldnt help myself. I do plan on red eyes eventually and possibly a 2nd try with another group of hairys if I find 6+ to grow out together. One short white worm feeding included from my youtube channel. I dont post too often but i try to add any noteworthy fishroom events there. Not pictured are my inital puffer a 4" wild caught hairy puffer purchased in 2017 that died suddenly in late 2018. Also not pictured my group of 6 pea puffers that were in the fishroom for a bit before moving on. *** The puffer beginnings *** Tetraodon schoutedeni (Spotted Congo Puffer) A few years back (August 2018 arrival) single puffer. Slight mishap with a surface skimmer in 2019 was a tough lesson for me. Excellent species I enjoyed this one so much I tried some other species and colonys of ambush puffer species. Tetraodon lineatus (Nile Puffer /Fahaka Puffer) Single Fahaka arrived April 2020 raised to 6" and sent to a permanent home following the tour of my fishroom done by weldon tanks. A little too flighty for me up here on the mountain. This tank became the Pao cf. palustris breeding colony. **** Current projects ***** Pao baileyi (Hairy Puffer) colony Hairy puffers are really the colony that started it all. These three were wild caught arrived 2019. 3 distinct peraonalities, 3 different food color preferences, 3 hunting strategies. Yet to breed but lots of spawning behaviors. I'd have gone with 6 and let them decide on their trio if i could do over. Display in front of puffer in pipe followed by two of 3 in a pipe wiggling and rubbing. no eggs yet but possibly someday. Pao cf Palustris (Mekong River Puffer) colony I started with 6 wild caught adults in my 75 gallon. I thought the patterns were great and was pretty sure if I figjred these out it sould help me with the hairys. They self selected down to trio within 30 days of arrival. All the male palustris photos are of my one adult male despite the wide range of color and patterns shown. He has some personality saying hi to me and humbly requesting his meal of 50 or so gut loaded nightcrawlers. The blemishes are some spawning nicks on his body. Male in standard coloration but bristled up and looking for more food from me "the food guy".(nightcrawler food below him) One of the 2 female pao cf palustris (standard coloration) Male courtship colors displaying for the 2 adult females. The dsrk green is about half way between normal and spawning dress color. Male spawning dance. The male inflates to about the size of a softball, reverses his colors to this nearly black dark green base with light green spots. Normal color is lighter green base with dark markings Spawning colors. Male right female left both reverse to light spots on a darker base color Spawn in cave male attending and guarding When he is on this color he will not allow anything within eyesight of his eggs but me. I pull up to 80% of the spawn once eyed up and ready to hatch. I use a coop airline tube as a slow flow siphon by having the end flow into a specimen containef. He attacks the airline a bit and has even "sat" on it with his body to stop spawn removal. If I took them all he would have all that aggression to defend them and no use for it. That can causs him to go on a scorched earth rampage throught the tank. (I learned that one the hard way early on) Pao cf palustris Day 0 in a ziss breeder box very zoomed in on the cell phone camera. day 1 fry Pao cf palustris Fry first batch around week 2 Moved to a growout with her 12 siblings day 25 ish . My short of the first whiteworm feeding. Same batch same growout month 3 or so. 5 cooperatively feeding on nightcrawlers. Though friendly fire does occasionally happen mostly just a group of puffers. 1 bag of 2nd batch of palustris fry on way to new home. 100% survival for the trip. Subwassertang in the bag for cover and polyfilter cubes for a little filtration helped Tetraodon miurus (Congo Puffer) colony 5 wild caught adolescents growing out. Change colors from light brown to black eaxh of the colors shown here can be exhibited by all 5 puffers shown. Not very aggressive towards eachother currently. I expect around 3 or 4 " there will be a pair or trio formed and the others will move out to new tanks or another keeper. Close up shows the freckling pattern on congos. Blackworms in substrate didnt last long. Snails also disnt last long. These do bury themselves a bit in the blasting media substrate.

For that setup I would be more comfortable with panda loaches etc but If a corydoras was the decision I would look at the corys who are found in rivers with colder water and coastal drainages for the better cory chances long term. Corydoras trilineatus, Corydoras paleatus, Scleromystax barbatus, etc. In my tanks, normally, the colder they get the slower the metabolism, the slower the growth, and the more they are just trying to survive than to live. Any of the wild caught catfish species from coastal drainages in Uraguay or Brazil could see to 65⁰ for months at a time depending on where they are found in nature. Parts of the Capivari River in Brazil, where some aquarium catfish have been found, can run 68⁰ for long periods in cold months and occasionally have gone down as low as 13 celcius / 55.4⁰ in the coldest months. Id guess many species could deal with the colder temps but they would be happier and longer lived at 65⁰-72⁰ range than the 60⁰ and below. I have been growing my colony of F1 Scleromystax baianinho II (C112) at 72⁰ normally and occasionally have longer runs at 68⁰ in the winter. They are more active at 72⁰ that 68⁰ and most active at 74⁰ for me I attempted growing out 15 F2 Corydoras sterbai at 70-72⁰ with clown killes but they were less active. I run them at 74⁰-75⁰ now and they actively hunt the substrate.

Bummer. 5 in the parent tank is pretty good still. You'll be able to build off this run and have more batches in no time. Once they start making fry my bet is they are like the pao puffers and dont stop. Looking forward to learning about the figure 8 through your experiences.

Congrats looks great

I have done a spotted congo puffer, was +/- 4" full grown adult, in a 29 gallon but that was also in a 140 gallon rack sump system with lots of plants in the sump to assist with water stability. I also kept her in a 40 breeder without issue. If I had a 32, Id give my abilities a shot with a spotted congo and some live plants. My spotted congo also enjoyed "yard care" and was often nibbling plants down. I had the most success with 4 plants : any anubius species I tried, java fern, java moss, and pogostemon octopus (once it took off). They seemed to hold up better than most stem plants. For me, bigger volume is always better for puffer water. How much maintainence is needed depends on water volume, feeding schedules, how the plants run within it, and any sponge etc filtration I use between water changes. I raised a fahaka from 1" to 6" or so. At 6" a 75 worked for a single fahaka in my water and setup using live plants, a bigger hang on back filter, 2 medium sponge filters, and 25% water changes every 3 days ( Normally ended up being TUE ,SAT)

@AnttwonGood looking fry there. They look ready for bbs whenever you have any hatched. 2 or 3 times a day works for my pao fry

I believe that is a way to get a little "instant infursoria" based off some past forum threads buy a few of the experts on here. I normally use java moss from an established tank for a bit of infusoria as well as fry cover.

Nice. I am unsure how brackish might impact parameters and change the process but my guess would be between days day 14 to 21 or 1/4 " is a good time to begin to decide who needs to move where and when. I do not like to move palustris much earlier than that to limit stress and reduce issues with feeding in the bigger tank I like to leave my pao fry in breeder box for 14 days or 1/4" in length or so before I move them to a tank I want them well started and feeding on at least baby brine shrimp and possibly some grindal or whiteworms etc before they go to a grow out tank and have to really swim and actively hunt food. I have also found that the bigger the grow out group the more accepting of new foods they are and the more aggression is reduced across the puffers. Two things I always do when moving are 1. I keep them under water for the move to avoid them puffing up with air and being unable to expel it. That is a rare issue but it can happen. 2. I do not mix different spawns with different lengths together - the bigger ones will view the smaller puffers as a food source so I keep them in their original group with their similar sized siblings. I keep / have kept thirteen 3" palustris adolescents in a 25 gallon currently with no issues one-hundred 1/8th" palustris in a breeder box growing out feeding 2 times a day of baby brine shrimp and vinegar eels five 1.5" Tetraodon Miurus Congo Puffers growing out in a 30 gallon (18"x26"x15") thirty 1/2" palustris were grown out in a 24 gallon (18"x26"x12") tank with no issues for me I have shipped palustris before and I waited until they were around 3/4" to send them out they all made it no problem at that size

Awesome. Those hang on backs are pretty good at that I use a large intake sponge on mine and I'm pretty sure it still takes a few. I bet they look great in that 10 gallon. I would consider doing an internal tank breeder box or net breeder etc for the first few days just to keep them closer to the food. If they are anything like the baby puffers that I have managed to get going it is a benefit to have them in a smaller area close to food and easier for you to observe behaviors eating digestion etc. Even those white net ones with the green plastic frame from big box pet stores should be good for that for short term. I use vitachem on any frozen or gel foods I feed to the adult puffers. I have also done drops into the water per the bottle label before with no issues. In my tanks it has never hurt to use it per the directions.

After it was suggested in a livestream. This is pretty much my fish club. Its nice to have everyone to share, talk mostly fish with, and learn from.

I do 50% apple cider vinegar 50% water . Happy to share any info I have managed to acquire. Congrats on the success.

I do 50% apple cider vinegar 50% water

Vinegar eels are pretty good for my baby puffers very small the move around and they tend to stay alive and in the water column for a bit. i put a few slices of apple in a glass bottle with a neck 50% apple cider vinegar 50%. They are handy to have around they dont really smell and are always ready to harvest while i wait for brine shrimp You got this. Im pumped to see your progress with them

...also the most experienced figure 8 puffer keeper and breeder i have met Puffer signal recieved 😁

No worries thats cool stuff. In my opinion whatever feels right on moving them is worth trying with some of them. Id keep them under water so they do not inflate with air and get stuck It can happen. My first group i moved a portion to a breeder box in the parents tank. I do like the internal breeder boxes like ziss from coop just because it keeps them closer to the food and circulates the water and food for them. For me a bigger tank makes it a little harder to monitor and feed. As small as possible is the key early. I have not had success with frozen or freeze dried foods but of the 3 id probably try the freeze dried brine shrimp and start live brine when you can. I would guess you could start live baby brine and feed them at 24 hours from now and get plenty to make it evwn with just that. Vinegar eels then baby brine are even better at least for the pao puffers. My puffer spawns normally have 50% make it to 30 days every batch lilely because of food competion and genetics. I would definately consider documenting everything in the journey and 3ach improvement with figure 8s. There are also many members with much more experience than me that will likely chime in with some better info. If you have eggs and fry swimming like that id assume 1 the parents dont bother them much and 2 they breed often. From my experience puffers wont stop making puffers once they start. Its ridiculous how many you can get once you figure out what they need.

@AnttwonYou may be among or the first to breed them. But those are baby puffers in my experience congrats. id defer to the egg scatterer puffer breeders for better info but.... I breed cave spawners currently Fry feeding I feed vinegar eels from day 1 to 14. i feed live bbs from day 3 to 30 And i feed white worms grindal worms blackworms from 14 to 45 By day 30 i add in earthworms frozen krill snails etc I do a breeder box until they get to 1/2 inch then a grow out Ive raised 75 in a 35 gallon long within a rack system( to 45 days) Ive raised 13 to 3" in a 20 gallon More space is better the pao canibalize the weak which is natural bit more space limits that Photos for reference Day before hatching. Hatching Day 1 Day 1 Day 10 from tonights live bbs feeding

Sounds like it will be an awesome tank

In my limited personal experience with puffers everything in a puffer tank lives at the discretion of the puffers. Short fins, fast and middle/top water swimmers probably have a better chance of living together than anything down low, slow, or long finned. Its possible the pea puffers will decide to pick at those types as well. I had my group of 6 in a semi planted 20 long and made seperate attempts of schools of strawbery rasbora (Boraras naevus), zebra danios, and finally adolescent variatus platies. All got evicted to other tanks by the puffer group danios lasted the longest. Id guess more plants might have helped but puffers really enjoy exploring and really enjoy playing/ grabbing just about everything... eventually. I dont think they really need dithers but if I wanted other fish with pea puffers id probably try a big school of ember tetra, celestial pearl danios, or something like the strawberry rasbora and some nice thick bushy plants and roots to breakline of sight when an escape is necessary

I second @Colu. Between the two options and if it were me id go for the 20 high over the 10 gallon since it has a little more surface area. Never hurts to have more territory. I have had success with groups of 6 they tend to act as their own dither fish and spread their aggression out across the group.

Some food does go through for sure but those edges collect a bit and the other fish eat whatever goes through. Flake works well for my sterbai fry but they also eat anything edible in there

Im a big mulm fan. I have a ziss tumbler and a few others but havent quite mastered tumbling eggs. If I dont do the breeder box i normally do a 3/4 full specimine container with a drop of methelyne blue, hung inside the tank with rigid airline bubbling enough to break surface tension and flow over the eggs if its needed for a species. That works for my setup if its a species that gets fungus on fertile eggs that tends to mitigate it for me.

I have done sterbai eggs in the ziss box. I prefer it for corys over the other styles of breeder box; id suggest adding live moss etc from the main tank in there when they hatch for the micro foods and cover it provides them. I do like the mesh bottom since its that much more water flow and i dont need to worry about temp fluctuations or water quality quite as much as other methods. They other bonus is any food the fry dont eat generally falls through. They get a little gunky at 7 days or so and i siphon the mesh with an airline tube. I just roll the eggs from the tank side where layed to my gloved finger and to the inside of the box. They were spaced enough that the fungus didnt spread from the few that did fungus. They cory fry will normally sit on that plastic edge in mine. I have the box in a 50 gallon. I normally feed the box standard food this is extreme flake, they also have done repashy in the box and live baby brine. The brine will fall through the mesh and feed the rest of the tank. Im sure its possible that they could have a freak accident but i personally think this box is excellent for my fry. If i do methelyne blue i use a specimine container hung in the tank with a slow bubbling rigid airline to break surface tension. Sterbai fry F2 i also use the boxes to raise batches of mekong puffer fry. Normaly they stay in them to 24 days with no issues before moving to a grow out tank. F1 puffer fry Tonights pull day 0 F1 Pao cf palustris

I sure dont mind the weather even up here in Divide

I bet however it happened its a neat story. But Id guess as some point somewhere in the distribution line not too long before the retail store one hatchling survived getting mixed into the pea puffers and and ended up in that photo. Something probably worth noting is Pao species are generally 10 to 15 cm ( 4 to 6 inches) grown.