Ammonia issue has me exhausted

[DebD]

Major ammonia issue. A week ago, Wednesday, a kid I was babysitting overnight tossed about 1/4 cup of baby brine shrimp (which may of been dead as I was planning on tossing them) into 2 of my tanks. I found out Thursday when it spiked presumably from die off.

1 tank has 7 juvenile Lemon BNs & 5 Ember tetras The 2nd tank has 2 juvenile L333 2.5", 5 young phantom tetra, 2 German rams and 3 rescued oto.

Since then both tanks got a 50% wc initially and have been doing 20-30% almost daily plus Prime daily. I've also added Pristine or Fritz bacteria on wc . I'm not seeing much of a difference yet. Ammonia still around 2-4 in both tanks.. I've removed rocks vacuuming under them,  tap rinsed my sponges & intake on the HOBs. Added a 2nd sponge into the Bn tank too. 

Sunday, I noticed ich spots on 2 bn and an ember. I've focused on the ich issue in that tank entirely and continued daily wc.  Luckily the other tank is ich free and also has had daily 25% changes. 
Other levels  nitrite 0, nitrate 5, Ph 6.6
I'm mentally exhausted on what else to do.  (On the bright side ich is clearing up.) 

Edited April 2, 2021 by DebD

[Colu]

Washing your filter sponges in tap water will kill the benefial bacterial on sponge could be why your still haveing ammonia problems have you tested your tap water for ammonia

[DebD]

If there's still BB in the substrate and HOB, that confuses me and I assumed some of the die off would be in the sponges. My other levels are normal.

[Colu]

 am i reading it wrong is just the intake sponge  you cleaned in tap water and not the filter pads in your HOB

[GardenStateGoldfish]

Have you checked your tap? Also what test are you using? Api liquid test kit? Ir will register chloramine and ammonium as ammonia in the test, if you tap is high in chloramine and you use prime to neutralize the chlormaine, it breaks down to ammonia, then made safe again by the prime by turning ammonia into ammonium, which is non toxic. If you have 2 ppm of ammonium the test will show dark green but not be harmful.

 

Tldr check your taps ammonia reading before doing more water changes

[DebD]

I've checked my tap. I have 3 other tanks with no issues (29 and 2 10) and 1 15 cycling). I understand about the tap. Beginning of March, the snow melt had tap water all messed up w ammonia and Ph until the treatment plant straightened it out.  We generally have extremely soft water here. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by DebD

[DebD]

14 minutes ago, Colu said:

 am i reading it wrong is just the intake sponge  you cleaned in tap water and not the filter pads in your HOB

Right. Not the bio rings

[GardenStateGoldfish]

1 hour ago, DebD said:

I've checked my tap. I have 3 other tanks with no issues (29 and 2 10) and 1 15 cycling). I understand about the tap. Beginning of March, the snow melt had tap water all messed up w ammonia and Ph until the treatment plant straightened it out.  We generally have extremely soft water here. 

This time of year is when municipalities in the US (not sure where your from) do flushing of the lines which usually has a ton of extra chemicals. You may be experiencing this problem in you one tank due to the frequency of water changing being higher then your other tanks. But if your confident that it is not your tap water maybe check if your food is expired or if you use any of those bacteria in a bottle things during water changes that they haven’t died otherwise your just adding in ammonia basically. 

[Biotope Biologist]

Well first off hello and welcome. 

 

Second, the reaction to the situation was a bit overkill. Vacuuming the rocks and cleaning the sponge and the massive initial water change followed by to frequent of water changes is the issue. This caused both a shock to your system and your fish. Your bacteria population very likely could have handled the extra load without much intervention other than removing the excess shrimp with a net. Now what I would do is switch back to weekly water changes of however much you were doing. The issue with the water changes being too frequent is that your bacteria does not have enough time to establish itself and remove the excess so you are constantly starting and restarting the "cycle." Let the system do what it's supposed to do. Human nature is always to interfere when we see a problem, but sometimes it's best to sit back and let everything work itself out.

 

Keep up with the ich treatments for as long as the medication indicates even if you see the treatment working. Also unrelated but bottled bacteria is a gimmick, they provide little if any benefit to established aquariums. 

[DebD]

7 minutes ago, GardenStateGoldfish said:

This time of year is when municipalities in the US (not sure where your from) do flushing of the lines which usually has a ton of extra chemicals. You may be experiencing this problem in you one tank due to the frequency of water changing being higher then your other tanks. But if your confident that it is not your tap water maybe check if your food is expired or if you use any of those bacteria in a bottle things during water changes that they haven’t died otherwise your just adding in ammonia basically. 

I just rechecked my tap. 0 ammonia. My bacteria I purchased a couple weeks ago on this site and expires 2022. I don't always add it on w/c and have added to my other tanks that aren't affected. 

This is why I'm perplexed on my options. 😖 I'm at a standstill in my Bn tank because of having to address ich w/ salt and medicine, at least for the next week to 10 days but am still doing 20/25% wc daily as per instructions. 

The other non-ick tank I'm at a loss with. I think if I can rectify it in that one, once the ich tx is over I can then focus on that one. 😔

[DebD]

11 minutes ago, Biotope Biologist said:

Well first off hello and welcome. 

 

Second, the reaction to the situation was a bit overkill. Vacuuming the rocks and cleaning the sponge and the massive initial water change followed by to frequent of water changes is the issue. This caused both a shock to your system and your fish. Your bacteria population very likely could have handled the extra load without much intervention other than removing the excess shrimp with a net. Now what I would do is switch back to weekly water changes of however much you were doing. The issue with the water changes being too frequent is that your bacteria does not have enough time to establish itself and remove the excess so you are constantly starting and restarting the "cycle." Let the system do what it's supposed to do. Human nature is always to interfere when we see a problem, but sometimes it's best to sit back and let everything work itself out.

 

Keep up with the ich treatments for as long as the medication indicates even if you see the treatment working. Also unrelated but bottled bacteria is a gimmick, they provide little if any benefit to established aquariums. 

Thank you. I had followed advice from FB initially. I won't touch the non-ich tank. Medication indicates 20% change. I did the salt / Rid-ich plus tx I found recommended for plecos because that's what was available immediately to me. 

I'll just keep using Prime, quit worrying, and give it a week to next wc in the non-ich tank.  I've got at least 5-10+ days to finish treatment in the pleco tank and will follow your advice after that's taken care of. 🙏❤🙏

Edited April 2, 2021 by DebD

[DebD]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:05 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

Well first off hello and welcome. 

 

Second, the reaction to the situation was a bit overkill. Vacuuming the rocks and cleaning the sponge and the massive initial water change followed by to frequent of water changes is the issue. This caused both a shock to your system and your fish. Your bacteria population very likely could have handled the extra load without much intervention other than removing the excess shrimp with a net. Now what I would do is switch back to weekly water changes of however much you were doing. The issue with the water changes being too frequent is that your bacteria does not have enough time to establish itself and remove the excess so you are constantly starting and restarting the "cycle." Let the system do what it's supposed to do. Human nature is always to interfere when we see a problem, but sometimes it's best to sit back and let everything work itself out.

 

Keep up with the ich treatments for as long as the medication indicates even if you see the treatment working. Also unrelated but bottled bacteria is a gimmick, they provide little if any benefit to established aquariums. 

After almost a month of dealing with this I'm at a loss. I tried the *let it be* approach. Tank 1, the ich tank, I moved the remaining lemon plecos into the newly cycled 40 after their recovery (I lost 3 Lf lemons) and the embers into my 15 fry tank. I let it have a bacterial bloom then 10 days ago did an 80% change, rinsed filters in the removed water, deep vac the gravel and refilled. The first readings are that tank. No its not cycling those are the exact same readings as before change. I run about a 5-10 nitrate. 

The 2nd tank should have a stock share in Prime as it houses my L333, 2 GBR and 5 phantom tetras. Once again, those readings have not changed in the last 3 weeks despite the usual weekly water changes of 20/30%. So the *let it be* isn't working either. My other 29, 2 10s, 40 and 15 are fine. 

Since I know what a cycling tank looks like , I'm going to assume from the results with first tank that the dead bbs are embedded in or on the substrate. Unless someone has another idea. 

I had hoped to clear up tank 1 which has no fish and move the fish from tank 2 into it then address that tank. 

I'm at a loss 😔😢

Edited April 19, 2021 by DebD

[Patrick_G]

I think I would try adding some cycled media to your filter, maybe combined with a full water change. 

[DebD]

4 minutes ago, Patrick_G said:

I think I would try adding some cycled media to your filter, maybe combined with a full water change. 

Oh I did that. I actually got some from a friend because I had used my backup media for my 40 and 15.  Tank 1 has throughly dank cycled media in it.  The reading are still the same as the entire month before. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by DebD

[DebD]

This is why I'm beginning to think whatever is going on is adhered to the substrate. ATM there are no fish in tank 1.  Maybe hydrogen peroxide? At this point forcing a mini cycle mat be faster. Remove the cycled media first before adding the peroxide. Idk

If I can get tank 1 settled I can move the fish into it from tank 2. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by DebD