Would you?

[Jeff]

I have a tempered 90g Marineland tank that I'm brainstorming for at the moment. It's eventually going to be a Discus tank. Tempered glass...aka you can't drill.

With that said, I've contemplated doing a sump for it. My reasoning is that I REALLY want to hide heaters, and a thermometer. I found this hang on back overflow. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/deluxe-cs90-with-lid-and-aqua-lifter.html  My only worry is the bulkhead in the overflow leaking at some point.

OR, there's this DIY pvc overflow method. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/this-guy-want-a-beaslbob-trap.36891/

Yes, I know: the safe route is to just hide the heaters with plants. But, I'd like to avoid having to hide them, if I can accomplish this safely.

If this were you, would you do it (either overflow method)? Regardless of your answer, please explain.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jeff

[Lemon]

i know a lot of people don't recommend hang on back overflows 

but you could use a hob refugium like this idk if it would be big enough for your heaters

[Colu]

You can get external canister filters with a heater compartment so you can hide everything

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Colu said:

You can get external canister filters with a heater compartment so you can hide everything

I'm not a fan of canisters. But, I appreciate the recommendation option.

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, quirkylemon103 said:

i know a lot of people don't recommend hang on back overflows 

but you could use a hob refugium like this idk if it would be big enough for your heaters

Oooooooooohhhhhh. I'll definitely look into this. This is tantalizing. Thanks!

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, quirkylemon103 said:

i know a lot of people don't recommend hang on back overflows 

but you could use a hob refugium like this idk if it would be big enough for your heaters

The video says you have to put the pump that it comes with, in your display. This doesn't sit well with me. 

Are you familiar with these kinds of refugiums? Can I run a pump inside of this instead?

[Lemon]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

The video says you have to put the pump that it comes with, in your display. This doesn't sit well with me. 

Are you familiar with these kinds of refugiums? Can I run a pump inside of this instead?

what's wrong with the pump inside being inside the tank? also I'm not familiar with them 

[Brandy]

If your objective is to hide all equipment (and you don't like canisters), I think you should just go with the HOB overflow and do the sump the way you want to. The bulkhead can be siliconed or otherwise sealed. I am most familiar with bulkheads on boats, and I know most of those sealants are not necessarily fish safe, but a bulkhead is a bulkhead, there is no reason for it to seal better on a drilled tank than on the HOB.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Brandy

[Jeff]

8 hours ago, quirkylemon103 said:

what's wrong with the pump inside being inside the tank? also I'm not familiar with them 

Because I'm a fan of as little equipment as possible showing in a display tank. Obviously you have to have SOME stuff (overflows, HOB filters, canister intakes-returns, etc.). But, if I can avoid a sponge filter, pumps, heaters, thermometers, wavemakers, etc....I'd rather go that route.

I just think it takes away from the look of the tank, and would rather not have to worry about trying to cover them up with plants and decor.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Jeff

[Andy's Fish Den]

If you want minimum equipment in tank, the options are a canister or using a sump, and since you can't drill the tank, using one of the hang on back overflows. I know from personal experience, and other people I know that have used them, they all fail at one time or another, even if it says fail safe. I had to replace carpet in my living room on a tank that I was using that same one you linked above from BRS.

 

[gardenman]

Something that's been done in the past, but you don't hear about it much anymore is undergravel heating. A rubberized heating element is laid in the middle of the gravel bed and connected to an external thermostat. A temperature probe in the water monitors the water temp and turns on and off the heating element as needed. You put it in the middle of the gravel as if you put it right against the bottom glass it tends to lose too much heat to the glass. By putting a half inch or so of gravel under it, the heat goes into the tank more. The site The Spruce Pets has an article about Aquarium Substrate Heating if you're intrigued. I don't know if anyone still sells the kits made for aquariums, but you can buy heat tapes, thermostat and cobble together something on your own if you're really feeling adventurous. In either case I'd strongly recommend using a GFCI circuit for the heater. That should help prevent you electrocuting yourself or your fish.

[Jeff]

On 2/2/2021 at 9:50 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

If you want minimum equipment in tank, the options are a canister or using a sump, and since you can't drill the tank, using one of the hang on back overflows. I know from personal experience, and other people I know that have used them, they all fail at one time or another, even if it says fail safe. I had to replace carpet in my living room on a tank that I was using that same one you linked above from BRS.

 

This is what I'm afraid of. Like, big time afraid. Thanks for the heads up with your experience! I'm going to be ripping out the carpet in my basement where my tank will be set up for some tile or laminate. But, I still don't want to deal with cleaning up water on the floor. I know none of us do, but I think you know what I'm talking about. It's just safer to go without the hang on back sump / overflow. 

I was leaning more towards just having the heaters in the tank, but just thought I'd brainstorm some "what ifs". Since I'm doing a tank of fish that I've never kept before, I thought that maybe I could do some equipment that I've never worked with before to boot. I really like the thought of trying new things in this hobby.

Unfortunately with my tempered tank, I'm VERY limited. Had I realized the tank was tempered, I might've been swayed to go with the Aqueon 90g that I was going back and forth with, with the Marineland one I got at the store. Then again, I really like the black silicone on the Marineland tanks.....lol. 

I digress.

[Jeff]

On 2/2/2021 at 10:09 AM, gardenman said:

Something that's been done in the past, but you don't hear about it much anymore is undergravel heating. A rubberized heating element is laid in the middle of the gravel bed and connected to an external thermostat. A temperature probe in the water monitors the water temp and turns on and off the heating element as needed. You put it in the middle of the gravel as if you put it right against the bottom glass it tends to lose too much heat to the glass. By putting a half inch or so of gravel under it, the heat goes into the tank more. The site The Spruce Pets has an article about Aquarium Substrate Heating if you're intrigued. I don't know if anyone still sells the kits made for aquariums, but you can buy heat tapes, thermostat and cobble together something on your own if you're really feeling adventurous. In either case I'd strongly recommend using a GFCI circuit for the heater. That should help prevent you electrocuting yourself or your fish.

Hmmm....never heard of this before. I'm not THAT adventurous.....lol. But, I'll definitely look into learning about this!

Already got my GFCI outlet installed! Thanks.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Jeff

[gardenman]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

Hmmm....never heard of this before. I'm not THAT adventurous.....lol. But, I'll definitely look into learning about this!

Already got my GFCI outlet installed! Thanks.

You don't hear about under substrate heating these days but it had a brief period where it was popular.  You could buy the heating cables and controllers at most online sites, but they're pretty much all gone now. JBL still makes the heating cables and controllers, but they're more sold in England/Europe than the US these days. It was considered the best way to heat a tank for a while. It promoted plant growth, the bottom heat was gentle and invisible. It was a neat option, but like lots of stuff, it never quite caught on. Companies still make heat cables, but you'd have to DIY a system now as the plug and play stuff is largely gone unless you have a source for JBL products. A company called Aqua One makes their Thermo-Sub heating system but I can't find it anyplace. If you Google "Under substrate aquarium heating" you can find many articles about it dating back twenty years or more. Since heat rises in an aquarium the coolest part of most tanks is the substrate. That's not always ideal for plants that like to be warm. Heating the substrate radiated heat throughout the tank and kept the substrate the warmest. It also created convection currents through the substrate circulating water through the substrate. 

[Jeff]

8 minutes ago, gardenman said:

You don't hear about under substrate heating these days but it had a brief period where it was popular.  You could buy the heating cables and controllers at most online sites, but they're pretty much all gone now. JBL still makes the heating cables and controllers, but they're more sold in England/Europe than the US these days. It was considered the best way to heat a tank for a while. It promoted plant growth, the bottom heat was gentle and invisible. It was a neat option, but like lots of stuff, it never quite caught on. Companies still make heat cables, but you'd have to DIY a system now as the plug and play stuff is largely gone unless you have a source for JBL products. A company called Aqua One makes their Thermo-Sub heating system but I can't find it anyplace. If you Google "Under substrate aquarium heating" you can find many articles about it dating back twenty years or more. Since heat rises in an aquarium the coolest part of most tanks is the substrate. That's not always ideal for plants that like to be warm. Heating the substrate radiated heat throughout the tank and kept the substrate the warmest. It also created convection currents through the substrate circulating water through the substrate. 

I would guess that the downfall was when it broke / malfunctioned. How would you troubleshoot something like that? I envision that to be a gigantic PITA.

[gardenman]

Those who used it said it was very reliable, but it had to be installed when you were setting up the tank and couldn't be added later. That limited it's market appeal. Planted tanks weren't as popular back then either. It's one of those products that was around before its time. A few companies are keeping it alive, mostly overseas, but it has some pretty big advantages over conventional aquarium heating, especially for planted tanks. I wouldn't be shocked to see it return to the US marketplace at some point. Those who used it back in the day raved about it. It makes sense also. If you want invisible heating, it's a good option. Assuming you can find it these days.

[BlackLabelCarling]

I'd build a skimmer box with a U tube. More common in saltwater, but works just fine in fresh water.