Your cycling method and why you choose it

[face]

Ok so I’ve been in the hobby just long enough to see the last few years of fish in cycles being common and the rise of artificial cycles (for lack of a better word)in the early days of them taking over the debates of which is better went on and on…and on lol but it seems like the liquid ammonia type has taken over and I’m wondering why

The old school method was put small numbers of hardly fish in and wait for a while Then add the fish you actually care about the cycling fish would usually be discarded (feeder gold fish usually)

then testing because more common so people realize or it because easier to  just cycle with the fish you want so that’s what people did 

 then the ghost feeding method came in drop a piece of shrimp or something in and Wait this was done because the testing shows that you need to do frequent water changes to keep the ammonia down so it was easy to do this instead 

then the liquid method came in as a side to that as a more controlled way of doing the same thing 

so all of this got me thinking why people choose the method they do today 

fish in cycles are still a thing not as common but definitely doable, you can even go really scientific and  Weigh out your food  so you know how much ammonia your adding to your tank even with a fish in cycle (16%by weight of your foods protein…ish)

Ghost feeling doesn’t seem common at all which I find weird it seems to be the easiest

The liquid method seems to have taken over completely nothing wrong with that but I’m wondering why it’s a little more fidelity at least it seems that way 

And in closing all these methods existed at the same time, but I’m just talking more commonly at least around where I am your experience may vary and this isn’t even touching on bottled bacteria but I’m rambling to much already lol so why do what you do?

[lefty o]

hang on while i get the pop corn!🙈

[face]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:33 AM, lefty o said:

hang on while i get the pop corn!🙈

Still that much of a hot topic? I was kind of hoping it wouldn’t be lol

[NOLANANO]

On 2/19/2024 at 8:47 AM, face said:

Still that much of a hot topic? I was kind of hoping it wouldn’t be lol

It is. Before I get flamed, Let me start by saying that I have a single tank and its been cycled for a few years so I don't use any method often BUT I do prefer the fish in cycle where you test the water daily and do water changes as needed. To me its the "dumb dumb" method that is very easy to follow and see results. You have the ammonia source in your small amount of fish (in my last case it was 3 endlers) and you can easily see in the test tubes whether or not a water change is needed.  It is a pain in the butt changing water every day or every other day but its pretty fool proof.  I also used Fritze Zyme after every water change to try to add some beneficial bacteria. 

I have never tried the liquid ammonia so maybe that would be easier but the ghost feeding method always seemed vague to me. Based on research, I could never figure out how much I should be ghost feeding and when to add more food, etc. Just didn't seem definitive enough for my liking and like most, I want fish in my tank as quicky as possible, not 2 months of feeding nothing hoping that bacteria begin to grow.

[JettsPapa]

As long as the fish keeper is diligent about doing water changes during a fish-in cycle, I don't see a problem with it.  There are some people who vehemently disagree (I will leave it at that so I don't get in trouble).

[macdaddy36]

When I set up my first tank I ghost fed for a few weeks, but I only every saw like 1ppm nitrate, and never any ammonia or nitrite. I went and got a few Harlequin Rasboras and gradually built the stocking up from there. What is weird is using both API test kit and ACO test kits I have never detected any ammonia or nitrite and very little nitrate in the last 2+ years, not even during "cycling". This is probably because when I first set up my tank I did daily water changes even before the fish was added for some reason. Probably the fact that I started off with lots of plants contributed to this.

Now that I have lots of media whenever I set up a new tank or redo an old one I just use media from another tank and let it sit for a little while while ghost feeding and then add some hardy, established fish from another tank to start it off. I think this is definitely the most simple method.

Edited February 19 by macdaddy36

[Tony s]

Yeah, I’m not really sure why it’s so controversial. All three systems work just fine. I have done all three before. By accident in my first couple of tanks. You know, buy tank, add fish. But we learn. My lfs still recommends a fish in cycle. They offer a few very hardy species until the tank is cycled, then they do exchanges when ready. I usually add fishless fuel ammonia, just because it’s so convenient. I have done ghost feeding before. I do use fritzyme7, but Seachem stability or Dr Tim’s work just as well. I really think it’s just a personal choice and have no issues with any cycling method. I do think for larger tanks it’s a bit easier with fuel. Not going to try water change in large tanks. I still use buckets as my tanks are scattered around. 
 

the only consideration for me, is the health of the animals. That’s a whole lot of water changing. But as long as you can keep up with it. It’s not a problem. The problem is that a lot of people either can’t or won’t be consistent enough.and the animals do suffer.

[face]

Thank you for the replys that was the kind of response I was looking for I’ve seen all types succeed and I’ve seen all types fail both in fresh and salt water so it doesn’t really matter what people choose I just like to hear why people do want they do sometimes you learn something so thank again 

[Tony s]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:58 AM, face said:

Thank you for the replys that was the kind of response I was looking for

Yeah, we’re all very nice here. I wonder what happens when you throw that question into the wild 😜 

[beastie]

Hey I can contribute here. I have six tanks, and except one that has been running on with a similar setup, and for sure same filter for the past like 11 years, a lot of them were done in the past few years by one method or another.

The first tank I did I spent like few months cycling, no fish, just plants, maybe snails, maybe food, light, nothing else. All the others I chose a different approach. Soaking sponge in existing tank, using mulm from other tanks, if I needed a tank that I needed fast, I would mix 50% of substrate from other tank. The substrate would have malaysian trumpet snails, I would also add ramshorns, plants from established tanks. I think the plants that are not newly bought and stagnant, but really cuts of healthy plants that just use the boost in nutrients, are the biggest game changer.

I essentially did a fish in cycle when I needed to move fish from one tank to a newly setup different tank, that had previously used filter and half the substrate. Granted I dont do much measuring and water tests as I just dont find them reliable, I often cant do anything about the end result, so for me it is a why bother situation. I think frankly all the approaches have the same result. I always hated the fish in cycle. What do you do with the "hardy not the end fish" there? do you keep it? give it to someone else to destroy its gills with ammonia? Who knows right

I think any cycle can be fixed or its effects reverted with a large amount of floating and fast growing plants and frequent water changes, so in the end the results are sort of the same no? 

[jwcarlson]

Fish in, up to the full final stocking.  Sometimes more in a temporary situation.  

Water changes up to daily, sometimes twice a day in extreme circumstances.  Doing a 125 right now doing about 75% water change every 3 days.  It has a three rams and like 25 half grown sterbai corys.  None of them seem to be having an issue with the nitrite level.  I'm also putting in Stability occasionally.  The hobby is becoming water change phobic.  They (water changes) just solve so many obvious issues and an unbelievable number of issues we can't see (if I had to guess).  

You can also bring filter media from other aquariums.  I'd do that with my 125, but I'm trying to keep bladder snails out of the tank and I don't trust any of my other tanks not to have eggs in the sponges/media.

[Tony s]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:03 AM, beastie said:

What do you do with the "hardy not the end fish" there

 

On 2/19/2024 at 11:03 AM, beastie said:

What do you do with the "hardy not the end fish" there? do you keep it? give it to someone else to destroy its gills with ammonia? Who knows right

Yeah, and that’s the only problem I see. People like us are going to take care of our animals. I like what my lfs does. They make sure (as much as they can) the animals are treated well. Too many people don’t have respect for their animals. They’re just decorations. And trust me, I’m not an animal welfare nut. My family actually raises livestock for a living, but animal welfare is and should be important.

I hate the idea of a throw away animal 

[AndEEss]

The problem with fish-in is two fold:

1) A “hardy” fish is still being burned by ammonia and nitrite. It just doesn’t die as quickly as a less hardy fish. 
 

2) You’re then throwing a live animal away or sending it back to the LFS so it can be tortured again. Or, if the fish keeper is bad enough at caring for the animals in question, the fish are tortured to death. 

 

 

[macdaddy36]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:28 AM, Tony s said:

 

Yeah, and that’s the only problem I see. People like us are going to take care of our animals. I like what my lfs does. They make sure (as much as they can) the animals are treated well. Too many people don’t have respect for their animals. They’re just decorations. And trust me, I’m not an animal welfare nut. My family actually raises livestock for a living, but animal welfare is and should be important.

I hate the idea of a throw away animal 

In my case, they are Harlequin Rasboras. I have kept them since and they are some of my favorite fish. Also, if you stay up on water changes daily or even more frequently as needed and have some hungry floating plants then almost no nitrite or ammonia will be present at any time to harm the fish. 

Edited February 19 by macdaddy36

[Sun.singh1991]

After using Fritzyme 7 and Seachem matrix in my tanks, I have never had a problem with cycling an aquarium. 
 
I just make sure the tank has pH is over 6.8 and temp over 76 and the bacteria have always kept up. 

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:19 AM, NOLANANO said:

It is. Before I get flamed, Let me start by saying that I have a single tank and its been cycled for a few years so I don't use any method often BUT I do prefer the fish in cycle where you test the water daily and do water changes as needed. To me its the "dumb dumb" method that is very easy to follow and see results. You have the ammonia source in your small amount of fish (in my last case it was 3 endlers) and you can easily see in the test tubes whether or not a water change is needed.  It is a pain in the butt changing water every day or every other day but its pretty fool proof.  I also used Fritze Zyme after every water change to try to add some beneficial bacteria. 

I have never tried the liquid ammonia so maybe that would be easier but the ghost feeding method always seemed vague to me. Based on research, I could never figure out how much I should be ghost feeding and when to add more food, etc. Just didn't seem definitive enough for my liking and like most, I want fish in my tank as quicky as possible, not 2 months of feeding nothing hoping that bacteria begin to grow.

Yeah I would, but I prefer the fishless cycle because I have smaller tanks so I would need a few small fish, but I have no access to small non schooling fish (because most schooling fish need at least 6 fish) and online is a lot of money for shipping at a total of like 100 dollars! No kid.  I know how to cycle doing the fishless way and i want to stick with it! IMO .

 

On 2/19/2024 at 9:29 AM, face said:

Ok so I’ve been in the hobby just long enough to see the last few years of fish in cycles being common and the rise of artificial cycles (for lack of a better word)in the early days of them taking over the debates of which is better went on and on…and on lol but it seems like the liquid ammonia type has taken over and I’m wondering why

The old school method was put small numbers of hardly fish in and wait for a while Then add the fish you actually care about the cycling fish would usually be discarded (feeder gold fish usually)

then testing because more common so people realize or it because easier to  just cycle with the fish you want so that’s what people did 

 then the ghost feeding method came in drop a piece of shrimp or something in and Wait this was done because the testing shows that you need to do frequent water changes to keep the ammonia down so it was easy to do this instead 

then the liquid method came in as a side to that as a more controlled way of doing the same thing 

so all of this got me thinking why people choose the method they do today 

fish in cycles are still a thing not as common but definitely doable, you can even go really scientific and  Weigh out your food  so you know how much ammonia your adding to your tank even with a fish in cycle (16%by weight of your foods protein…ish)

Ghost feeling doesn’t seem common at all which I find weird it seems to be the easiest

The liquid method seems to have taken over completely nothing wrong with that but I’m wondering why it’s a little more fidelity at least it seems that way 

And in closing all these methods existed at the same time, but I’m just talking more commonly at least around where I am your experience may vary and this isn’t even touching on bottled bacteria but I’m rambling to much already lol so why do what you do?

 

On 2/19/2024 at 11:36 AM, AndEEss said:

The problem with fish-in is two fold:

1) A “hardy” fish is still being burned by ammonia and nitrite. It just doesn’t die as quickly as a less hardy fish. 
 

2) You’re then throwing a live animal away or sending it back to the LFS so it can be tortured again. Or, if the fish keeper is bad enough at caring for the animals in question, the fish are tortured to death. 

 

 

Yes I agree @AndEEss, but I would not say it is torture 

[Gannon]

I've never had a failed cycle. I use ammonia bottles that are labeled Dr Tim's aquatics ammonia or something like that. I dose to 2ppm ammonia and then it usually takes 2.5 weeks for a new tank to get through that. Then I redose 2ppm ammonia and repeat until the tank can get through it in a day. Likely overkill, but you should at the very least get your tank to run it 2-3 times which usually gets to the point anyways. 

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:57 AM, Gannon said:

I've never had a failed cycle. I use ammonia bottles that are labeled Dr Tim's aquatics ammonia or something like that. I dose to 2ppm ammonia and then it usually takes 2.5 weeks for a new tank to get through that. Then I redose 2ppm ammonia and repeat until the tank can get through it in a day. Likely overkill, but you should at the very least get your tank to run it 2-3 times which usually gets to the point anyways. 

Exactly what I do and it took maybe 3 weeks and no issues yet.

[Gannon]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:59 AM, Bigdog99 said:

Exactly what I do and it took maybe 3 weeks and no issues yet.

Its incredibly reliable unlike say fish food cycling and not expensive or anything.

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:45 AM, JettsPapa said:

As long as the fish keeper is diligent about doing water changes during a fish-in cycle, I don't see a problem with it.  There are some people who vehemently disagree (I will leave it at that so I don't get in trouble).

Yeah, I don’t like it a lot, but i would do it lol

On 2/19/2024 at 12:00 PM, Gannon said:

It’s incredibly reliable unlike say fish food cycling and not expensive or anything.

Yes, the fish food way is prob the worst non scientific method IMO

[bryanisag]

So I recently went through this with a "worms in cycle" and I followed Michaels fish room technique. It seemed to work out but took a while. I bought 10 portions of black worms at my lfs and set them up in a new 10 gallon with a brand new sponge filter because all of my seeded sponge filters have planeria in them. Then following Micheals advice I dosed with dechlorinator at double strength every 2 days. It is supposed to detoxify ammonia for the fish "worms in this case" in cycle. What I am wondering though is if the bacteria is able to process the detoxified ammonia. I mean I got a cycle eventually and I think the worms all did fine but it's kinda hard to tell if worms are happy. 

[Pepere]

My next tank is going to be a 75 gallon.  
 

I intend to try a dark cycle, using filter squeezings to jump start the cycle and ammonia..

 

No plants, no lights.  Wait until the cycle has matured with ammonia dosing for at least 6-8 weeks before planting..

 

The theory being that you have a microbiologicaly mature tank before putting in plants that supposedly leads to less algae problems once you put in plants…

 

My suspicion is it is like a weather forecast.  I will tell you more a few months after having tried it…

[jwcarlson]

You squeeze enough filter gunk into a new tank and it's cycled "immediately" IMO.  Unless you're putting in 400 tetras or something crazy.  

It's the best way to go about it aside from possible pathogen exchange.

[Charestv]

My method unfortunately was to listen blindly to what petsmart told me only to realize the next day there was a problem. Then i came on here and found all these nice people who explained it to me the proper way and I'm now at the point where i think this weekend i will be ready to get a couple fish. 

[Whitecloud09]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:29 PM, Charestv said:

My method unfortunately was to listen blindly to what petsmart told me only to realize the next day there was a problem. Then i came on here and found all these nice people who explained it to me the proper way and I'm now at the point where i think this weekend i will be ready to get a couple fish. 

Yes, I went through the same thing because I listened to petsmart, not saying petsmart people are not helpful but I think they might emphasize the fish in cycle to much and totally ignore any other method. (At least my petsmart is like that😁)