Is deep gravel cleaning, good or bad.

[Tanked]

What are your thoughts on deep gravel/substrate cleaning? 

In a sand/soil tank, deep cleaning would be a disaster; but what about gravel? Two of my tanks  use UGFs, so I don't have any surface debris. mulm etc.  I also deep clean right down to the plates. This might keep the plate from clogging, and it definitely turns over the gravel, reducing excess algae on the surface gravel. 

I have begun to wonder if the deep cleaning is one reason that some of my plants fail to thrive, as I am removing some of the nutrients and probably damaging some of the roots.

One slightly more interesting observation:  Gravel cleaning the planted tank reveals tiny bits of white gravel in the  syphon tube. I 've always thought that this was odd because there should not be any tiny gravel in this tank.  A sample taken directly from the tube this week, revealed the gravel to be dozens of baby Bladder Snail shells.  Except for the MTSs the snail population is healthy, so I'm guessing there is plenty of available calcium.

[Guppysnail]

I use gravel and ugf. I can see under my tanks. Not ever deep cleaning it builds up and then deteriorates into the water column. The more sophisticated layered substrates in plates allows the gunk to break down in the substrate. Gravel does not. 
 

My 2 cents. 😁

[Matt B]

I keep thinking about this subject.  Many years ago I had never heard  of or used a  gravel vac.  Then I came back to the hobby and it seemed like something to try....Everybodys doing it. .   I feel like the way I keep my tanks, ( lots of plants) that the gravel vaccing was doing more damage then good. So I stopped.  It will be interesting to see what happens in these tanks as time goes by. 

[beastie]

I use a gravel vac for sand tanks, to suck up the top 1 cm layer, but not deeper. If I dont, corydoras have bacterial issues, if I go deeper, I get algae.

In some tanks, like the shrimp one, I dont gravel vac at all, in some I have snails digging through the substrate. Many old schoold fish keepers never gravel vac and have amazing tanks, father fish has some videos regarding the microfauna that lives there. I would not omit cleaning substrate with sensitive substrate dwellers I guess

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I vac the sand.  I use PFS so it's heavy enough to fall back down out of the siphon.  I get a gross-looking line in the sand if I don't.  Plus the sand turns greyish black, and looks nasty if I don't turn it.  There are mixed opinions.  Some people vac it and some don't.  I saw Rachel O'Leary lightly vac the sand, so I went ahead and did it too.

When I had a UGF w/ gravel I would siphon down to the plates too.  Clearing that mulm will keep the water flowing nicely through the plates.  You don't need mulm to be there for UGF effectiveness; you just need BB which is going to develop regardless.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Tanked]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea @beastie  For now at least, my only sand tank is PFS, pest snail only, and no tech beyond the light.  The PSO does better here than anywhere else.  I do  surface vac occasionally, Accumulated detritus seems to cause the Wisteria to drop leaves sooner and also causes some interesting algae issues.  @beastie I can't think of reason deep cleaning the sand causes algae.  That's a new one for me.

@Matt B Two of my gravel tanks run HOB and UGFs together.  Either one is capable of handling the tank by itself.  Because I tend to over think things, I begin to wonder about how much gravel cleaning I need to do if any. From there it went to: If deep gravel cleaning is bad, why are the crypts the only plants that are actually growing?

I quickly ended up with more questions than answers, so I decided to throw it out here and see what others thought.

 

[Galabar]

I have a custom made (PVC pipe) UGF with a thick layer of pea gravel.  I don't clean the gravel and the water remains clear.  This is a glass bottom tank.  So, I can see the white PVC pipes, and nothing seems to accumulate.  However, if there was less gravel, it might...

[Matt B]

I started really looking at the gravel layers in these tanks that I  stopped gravel vacuuming.  The waters are clear and I  don't focus to much on the mulm or detritus layers, but when you start looking. Wow! .  I'm guessing some anaerobic bacteria? And who knows what?  So the aquarium lilys and vallisneria thrive. But so does the black beard and staghorn algae. .   Check out the Endler fry inspecting my slack algae glass cleaning!  Not impressed! 

[Tanked]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:29 PM, Matt B said:

I started really looking at the gravel layers in these tanks that I  stopped gravel vacuuming.  The waters are clear and I  don't focus to much on the mulm or detritus layers, but when you start looking. Wow! .  I'm guessing some anaerobic bacteria? And who knows what?  So the aquarium lilys and vallisneria thrive. But so does the black beard and staghorn algae. .   Check out the Endler fry inspecting my slack algae glass cleaning!  Not impressed! 

 

On 11/8/2023 at 7:29 PM, Matt B said:

Check out the Endler fry inspecting my slack algae glass cleaning!  Not impressed! 

 

You missed a spot!

 

I think this is to be expected when you look too close.🙈

For now at least, I stopped deep cleaning the planted tank gravel.  At one time or another this tank has had Staghorn and String algae, and seems to have a forever battle with spot algae.  The fish are healthy and the water is clear do I'm not too concerned.  I added some plants last week, and I'm waiting to see if they are going to survive.  My Italian Val has migrated to the front edge of the tank again.  I believe it is seeking direct sun, or it could be looking for the additional nutrients that collect there, similar to your photos.

 

[reefhugger]

I've been gravel vacuuming under the probably mistaken idea it it keeps the water parameters in check from ammonia, nitrites. nitrates?  When I vac during water changes it looks like I'm pulling out a ton of debris that would cause water spikes as it degrades.  I do have planted tanks . I am getting better at not over feeding but probably still need to cut back more.    By vacuuming am I reducing BB?   Does the garbage in the gravel affect water parameters?  

[Robert K]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:10 PM, reefhugger said:

I've been gravel vacuuming under the probably mistaken idea it it keeps the water parameters in check from ammonia, nitrites. nitrates?  When I vac during water changes it looks like I'm pulling out a ton of debris that would cause water spikes as it degrades.  I do have planted tanks . I am getting better at not over feeding but probably still need to cut back more.    By vacuuming am I reducing BB?   Does the garbage in the gravel affect water parameters?  

I think this is pretty close to where I'm at. It seems to me that I get more nitrates out of the tank when vacuuming compared to equally big water changes without vac. Also, it seems that I can maintain my water hardness easier with vacuuming. So as long as my nitrates don't get too high or my hardness too low I don't mind keeping the detritus in the substrate.

Good or bad? I think it depends.

[reefhugger]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:37 AM, Robert K said:

Good or bad? I think it depends.

LOL  one of the fun/frustrating things about aquariums, not always a clear yes or no.  Thanks for the reply.

[Tlindsey]

On 12/30/2023 at 6:10 AM, reefhugger said:

I've been gravel vacuuming under the probably mistaken idea it it keeps the water parameters in check from ammonia, nitrites. nitrates?  When I vac during water changes it looks like I'm pulling out a ton of debris that would cause water spikes as it degrades.  I do have planted tanks . I am getting better at not over feeding but probably still need to cut back more.    By vacuuming am I reducing BB?   Does the garbage in the gravel affect water parameters?  

@reefhugger Vacuuming the gravel will have minimal affect on beneficial bacteria only waste trapped in the gravel would affect water parameters imo.

Like stated different answers 

[Lonkley]

To me, that's plant food.  I think it's more or less sequestered under the gravel. But I could be totally wrong. 

 

[Tanked]

On 12/30/2023 at 6:10 AM, reefhugger said:

I've been gravel vacuuming under the probably mistaken idea it it keeps the water parameters in check from ammonia, nitrites. nitrates?  When I vac during water changes it looks like I'm pulling out a ton of debris that would cause water spikes as it degrades.  I do have planted tanks . I am getting better at not over feeding but probably still need to cut back more.    By vacuuming am I reducing BB?   Does the garbage in the gravel affect water parameters?  

Yes to both questions.  BB is everywhere   Vacuuming alone won't reduce it enough to matter.   The garbage (detritus)  is part of the nitrogen cycle that your plants and the BB rely on.  In a non planted tank or an overstocked tank you can get too much of a good thing.

[Mmiller2001]

I do not vacuum. It's only caused more problems than solved.

[jaywking]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:40 AM, Matt B said:

I keep thinking about this subject.  Many years ago I had never heard  of or used a  gravel vac.  Then I came back to the hobby and it seemed like something to try....Everybodys doing it. .   I feel like the way I keep my tanks, ( lots of plants) that the gravel vaccing was doing more damage then good. So I stopped.  It will be interesting to see what happens in these tanks as time goes by. 

How is it going?