This one has me stumped

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I got some fish in the mail a few weeks ago.  They arrived in good health from a breeder who has been keeping and breeding them for decades.  I hit them with med-trio anyhow as I have had issues with these in the past.  Despite this they are refusing all foods (I've tried over a dozen flake and pellet types, brine shrimp, bloodworms, blackworms, etc.).  They are pecking at algae in the tank, but these are supposed to be unfussy eaters.  They are looking thin and starting to waste away.  I'm observing a little flashing on rocks, and they seem eager to eat, but then spit everything back out.  One other odd thing is that there are little white "fibers" floating through the water.  Here is a photo:

I don't know if these threads are harmful, benign, or otherwise.  Or if they are even related to the situation with the fish not eating at all, but I don't have them in any other tank.  Parameters are all good.  On point, in fact.

I'm open to all potentially useful ideas on what might be happening, and what could be done.  As the subject line says, this one has me stumped!  I've just added Expel-P, hoping this might help, but it's a complete guess. 

[MattyM]

Are your params OK? Do these white fibers move at all, or do they feel like some sort of synthetic material? 

[Guppysnail]

Do the fibers remain mostly floating then if you watch one fiber for awhile it wiggles?  If so potentially low oxygen causing detritus worms to surface an go into the water column.  Low oxygen has previously also caused me to see low- no fish appetite.  Meds reduce oxygen availability as well.  

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/6/2022 at 9:22 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I got some fish in the mail a few weeks ago.  They arrived in good health from a breeder who has been keeping and breeding them for decades.  I hit them with med-trio anyhow as I have had issues with these in the past.  Despite this they are refusing all foods (I've tried over a dozen flake and pellet types, brine shrimp, bloodworms, blackworms, etc.).  They are pecking at algae in the tank, but these are supposed to be unfussy eaters.  They are looking thin and starting to waste away.  I'm observing a little flashing on rocks, and they seem eager to eat, but then spit everything back out.  One other odd thing is that there are little white "fibers" floating through the water.  Here is a photo:

I don't know if these threads are harmful, benign, or otherwise.  Or if they are even related to the situation with the fish not eating at all, but I don't have them in any other tank.  Parameters are all good.  On point, in fact.

I would dive through this.... this was very similar to what I went through.  Algae, equipment issue, worms, etc.  In the post below there is a link to the actual movement of the worm.  I think you're best best is going to be to follow @Odd Duck's treatment regime in that thread and to dose in salt if possible (meaning, no concern for plants).  I did get rid of them with meds / salt and a lot of effort.  The main thing I will encourage you to do is to find out where they are coming from and to remove them constantly as a result.  Either the substrate or in the equipment somewhere is usually where you see them.  The other place they usually populate from is the glass itself.
 

 

Of note, the first thing I did was I added an airstone back into the tank.  Drop in oxygenation (removing extra filtration) was the cause of all of my progression of issues.

Also, when you use Expel-P, be sure to turn off lights and black out the tank as much as possible for 24 hours.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:04 PM, Guppysnail said:

Do the fibers remain mostly floating then if you watch one fiber for awhile it wiggles?

Nope.  They do not move, except to flex with the flow from the Jetlifters.  They otherwise seem inanimate. 

On 9/6/2022 at 1:04 PM, Guppysnail said:

Low oxygen has previously also caused me to see low- no fish appetite.  Meds reduce oxygen availability as well.

An interesting point!  I have two Jetlifters going behind two corner matten filters in the tank.  They move a lot of water!  I had to turn them down so the fish didn't get blown around, so I think my circulation is decent.  I also haven't seen the fish gasping at the surface.  Flashing against rocks, yes.  But surface gasping, no.  Still, I could lower the water temperature by a degree or two and see if it makes things better.  It's 26C in there right now, so maybe 25 or 24 would be good.

On 9/6/2022 at 12:03 PM, MattyM said:

Do these white fibers move at all, or do they feel like some sort of synthetic material?

Synthetic is an interesting idea.  I've decided I should test that hypothesis.  Therefore, I have hooked up an ACO powerhead in the tank, attached the output to a tube running into a 200micron filter sock, which is held in place by a magnetic sock holder.  If they are synthetic fibers, they should get pulled out by this.  If they are worms, I anticipate them being able to wriggle their way out.  I suppose I'll know in a day or so.

[Colu]

If they refusing food and starting to lose weight it could be wasting disease I would recommend treating with fritz Expel p once a week for 3 weeks 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Which fish are they @OnlyGenusCaps? Sorry to be nosy but certain breeds and types can be more problematic.

[quikv6]

Expel-P is a great guess. I would add some to the food as well. I have not had as much luck with Levamisole in the water column as opposed to the food. If they continue to spit the food, you may need Flubendazole, which has always done better in the column in a situation where a fish is spitting.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:15 PM, Colu said:

I would recommend treating with fritz Expel p once a week for 3 weeks

On 9/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, quikv6 said:

Expel-P is a great guess.

Thank you both!  It's good to know I might be on the right track.  @quikv6, I'll look into Flubendazole as well. 

[modified lung]

Fish that are refusing to eat and wasting away will often accept vinegar eels until they have the strength to eat progressively larger foods. They're probably pecking at the algae because the little microorganisms that live in there are the only thing they've found they have the strength to eat atm.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:12 PM, modified lung said:

Fish that are refusing to eat and wasting away will often accept vinegar eels until they have the strength to eat progressively larger foods.

Thanks!  I do have copious quantities of vinegar eels.  I'll give it a go.  I very much want to save these little guys.

On 9/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, quikv6 said:

you may need Flubendazole

That was it!  That was the search term I needed.  Thank you so much!  With that I found this link, which described my situation perfectly.  I'll bet @Guppysnail is correct, and despite the fact they don't appear to be alive, they might be detritus worms because the food has not been eaten. 

So, now I believe I have a reasonable idea of what is going on, why they were healthy in the tank they were in, and a course of action.  That's about as good an outcome as I could hope for with what started out s a mystery yesterday.  Thanks all!

[modified lung]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:01 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Thanks!  I do have copious quantities of vinegar eels.  I'll give it a go.  I very much want to save these little guys

I also recently had success bringing some wasting adult fish back to health with high protein powdered fry food.

On 9/7/2022 at 5:01 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

With that I found this link, which described my situation perfectly. 

That's a good link but careful with the water changes. I always get lots of pushback when I say this but tap water, even if dechlorinated, can make weak fish worse. If I need to water change a sick tank, I use water from another tank. I recently did an experiment with 4 tanks comparing the two kinds of water changes and the difference was more dramatic than I expected. Personally, I wouldn't worry much about the nematodes unless you suspect they might be parasitic.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:01 AM, modified lung said:

That's a good link but careful with the water changes. I always get lots of pushback when I say this but tap water, even if dechlorinated, can make weak fish worse.

Thanks for the heads up!  I'm on well water.  Does that work the same way?  I won't be changing much water while I wait on the medication to work anyhow.  Hopefully that delay will help too.

I don't know that the fibers/worms are part of the problem of a symptom of the problem.  The filter sock has worked a treat whatever they are though!  I'll turn it off while I feed them vinegar eels, obviously. 

If the fish are looking like they are turning a corner with the meds in a few weeks, I may try adding a bit of salt to finish off whatever was causing this.  This species should tolerate it well.  I'm not sure if I need "aquarium salt" though, or if I could equally use the tub of Tropic Marin marine salt I have on hand. 

[modified lung]

 

On 9/7/2022 at 8:16 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I'm on well water.  Does that work the same way?

Untreated well water? I don't have enough experience with it to say. My working theory is that replacing tank water with treated water might be blowing a hole in the water column's ecosystem and filling it with a big bias toward whatever survives the treatment process. A weakened immune system might not be able to handle what's coming in or losing what's being taken out. I see it a lot with dechlorinated tap water and with water pulled from the river and treated only with UV. I've seen Dr Tim Hovanec talk about something similar for saltwater tanks somewhere I need to find again.

On 9/7/2022 at 8:16 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I'm not sure if I need "aquarium salt" though, or if I could equally use the tub of Tropic Marin marine salt I have on hand. 

I use Instant Ocean and it seems to work well. I think synthetic ocean salt is better for treatments but I don't really have any real evidence to back that up.blockquote widget

 

On 9/7/2022 at 8:16 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I'm on well water.  Does that work the same way?

Untreated well water? I don't have enough experience with it to say. My working theory is that replacing tank water with treated water might be blowing a hole in the water column's ecosystem and filling it with a big bias toward whatever survives the treatment process. A weakened immune system might not be able to handle what's coming in or losing what's being taken out. I see it a lot with dechlorinated city water and with water pulled from the river and treated only with UV. I've seen Dr Tim Hovanec talk about something similar for saltwater tanks somewhere I need to find again.

On 9/7/2022 at 8:16 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I'm not sure if I need "aquarium salt" though, or if I could equally use the tub of Tropic Marin marine salt I have on hand. 

I use Instant Ocean and it seems to work well. I think synthetic ocean salt is better for treatments but I don't really have any real evidence to back that up.blockquote widget

Edited September 7, 2022 by modified lung

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/7/2022 at 2:12 PM, modified lung said:

I've seen Dr Tim Hovanec talk about something similar for saltwater tanks somewhere I need to find again.

I'd be curious to see/hear/read that if you can track it down.  Thanks again for all of your help!