Would a pea puffer be nutrient deficient if fed primarily live bladder snails?

[Lexi B]

Thinking about getting a pea puffer in the near future, and have an abundance of pest bladder snails in one of my tanks. I was thinking they'd be an excellent food source for a new friend, but I'm concerned that only feeding primarily bladder snails with some frozen foods mixed in (if he ends up liking those) will make him malnourished. 

The bladder snails are actually in a tank with my pygmy corydoras, so they pick off whatever I give them which is a variety of sinking wafers, repashies, and frozen foods. By that logic it's kind of like gut loading crickets for reptiles, I assume?

[Odd Duck]

If that’s is the majority of the food your pea puffer will likely end up with nutritional deficiencies.  They need more variety than that.  If you can get them to eat frozen food, that should help balance things.  If you can grow some moss and a little algae, they will pick at small life that grows among the moss and algae.  Blackworms, whiteworms, Grindal worms, etc, also help give them some variety.  The more variety you can offer, the better they will do long term.

[Atitagain]

I agree with @Odd Duck the more variety the better. I feed my pair snails, blackworms, frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, and they also eat vibra bites. 

[Lizzyduff]

Plus,  eventually they will eat all the bladder snails.  I also recommend breeding ramshorn snails for food. My puffers ate the entirety of my bladder snail collection in a matter of weeks.  I'm dangerously low on ramshorn snails now too, but my next order should be arriving any day.  I also supplement with blood worms, brine shrimp, and neocaridina shrimps. They love picking through the Java moss for critters too. Never in my life did I imagine I'd actually be paying for bladder snails. Yet,  here we are.  This month,  approximately 50% of their diet is some sort of snail, followed by various frozen worms 30%, and the rest make up the remaining 20%. I figure the more variety the better but honestly, good luck getting one to try something new once it has a boner for whatever its decided is it's favorite 😆 🤣 

[Lexi B]

On 7/15/2022 at 12:51 PM, Lizzyduff said:

Plus,  eventually they will eat all the bladder snails.  I also recommend breeding ramshorn snails for food. My puffers ate the entirety of my bladder snail collection in a matter of weeks.  I'm dangerously low on ramshorn snails now too, but my next order should be arriving any day.  I also supplement with blood worms, brine shrimp, and neocaridina shrimps. They love picking through the Java moss for critters too. Never in my life did I imagine I'd actually be paying for bladder snails. Yet,  here we are.  This month,  approximately 50% of their diet is some sort of snail, followed by various frozen worms 30%, and the rest make up the remaining 20%. I figure the more variety the better but honestly, good luck getting one to try something new once it has a boner for whatever its decided is it's favorite 😆 🤣 

That's about what I said as planning on doing. Mostly I was just concerned they might veto the frozen foods lol

I've been fighting these bladder snails for so long that I assumed you could never run out though, so I'll definitely consider the rams horns! I like them a lot but never went for them because I haaaate over populating snails

 

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

I agree with @Odd Duck @Atitagain @Lizzyduff.For me variety seems to be the best longer term to mitigate any deficiencies found in any single food source and for enrichment so they aren't just eating the same thing everyday and get bored with it. There is also added benefit of feeding a variety that it will help limit them from getting too picky and having issues if a source of a particular food runs out. I would guess any puffer would consume all the snails in their tank incredibly efficiently and at a rate that is impressive to watch.

I feed grindalworms, whiteworms, blackworms, scuds, daphnia, MTS / pond / and ramshorn snails for live options and for frozen I do blood worms / tubifex worms / mysis shrimp / or krill with vitachem and a little garlic guard added to add some vitamins. I have also done vibra at times to change it up

[Jennifer V]

On 7/15/2022 at 2:03 PM, Lexi B said:

That's about what I said as planning on doing. Mostly I was just concerned they might veto the frozen foods lol

I've been fighting these bladder snails for so long that I assumed you could never run out though, so I'll definitely consider the rams horns! I like them a lot but never went for them because I haaaate over populating snails

 

 

If they refuse a certain food at first, you can try fasting them for a couple days and then reintroduce the food they've denied. They'll likely eat it. 

You'll be surprised how quickly they devour snails. My tank was filled with bladder snails when I got my peas and they ate all of them within a day. 

[Lexi B]

On 7/16/2022 at 10:36 AM, Jennifer V said:

If they refuse a certain food at first, you can try fasting them for a couple days and then reintroduce the food they've denied. They'll likely eat it. 

You'll be surprised how quickly they devour snails. My tank was filled with bladder snails when I got my peas and they ate all of them within a day. 

Woah! Murderous little nuggets. I've had to do the "food time out" for a Betta before, who decided he only wanted the freeze dried blood wormers as a diet instead of a treat haha

[QBNOD]

@Odd Duck @Atitagain @mountaintoppufferkeeper @Lizzyduff 

My pea puffers are food snobs. Tried fasting them, tried all kinds of frozen foods (blood worms, krill, brine shrimp, etc.) & they only eat live rams horn snails or live baby brine shrimp.  I have them in a 14g cube, started with 5 & now down to 3. 

After 7 months, I had to break down the tank today & do a heavy scrub down of everything because the dead snail bits & algae were too tough of a battle.  Going to re-scape the tank now and try to find a better balance with more plants to deal with the algae situation.  I can't believe how dirty these guys are!  The substrate was gross. 

I rinsed a lot of the substrate (mix of fluval stratum, Landen aquasoil, & black aragonite) and going to start over.  I find they go into hiding when the water fowls up & get much more active when I do a heavy water change (70%+).  Weekly heavy water change seems to be a must for these guys.  I have lots of wood in there to break up the sight lines but it makes it very tough to keep everything clean.  They do love the hiding spots in between the wood.  I only have a sponge filter hidden in the there but don't want to clutter the tank with HOB or other option since this is a display frameless tank in my entryway. 

Anybody have pea puffer food snob remedies besides starving them for several days (that hasn't been effective)? I even added 2 plenaria worms to this tank when i had an outbreak in another tank a few months back hoping they world be food for them and eat some of the detritus but the puffers ignored them and then I had to hunt down and kill the plenaria when they started to multiply before I had a bigger problem (I know... I know... I was desperate for food options for them 🤦‍♂️) 

I live in fear of running out of RHsnails so a lot of my other tanks look like snail breeding operations (which they essentially are) & I want my old tanks back to what they once were!  I also worry about running out of BBShrimp.  Never had to stress so much about feeding fish before.  I was hoping live snails, BBS here & there, & frozen foods would be my strategy but it hasn't worked out at all.  I love these guys but the maintenance + food issues are starting to annoy me & that defeats the point of keeping them – even though they are so rad!

Thanks!

Edited July 21, 2022 by QBNOD

[Atitagain]

@QBNOD blackworms work very well for me. I started to breed them around 8 months ago. I only purchased 2 portions from my LFS and both cultures are still going strong, I feed my 2 pea puffers 3-4 times a week and hit a tank or two throughout my fishroom. I haven’t updated in a while but I have a journal about my set up in my signature if your interested under “ Live food cultivating “

My blackworms are now in 2 different 3G totes but if you don’t have space, tank, or desire to keep them like that you can always buy portions from your LFS rinse them and feed them out for a couple days keeping them in your refrigerator.

On 7/21/2022 at 12:29 PM, QBNOD said:

I love these guys but the maintenance + food issues are starting to annoy me & that defeats the point of keeping them – even though they are so rad

Their special foods are an extra chore especially if like yours it’s a picky eater. Having to do the extra maintenance to keep snail shells cleaned up is another reason I give them a bunch of blackworms. 

[QBNOD]

@Atitagain I had considered starting a worm farm some time ago then opted for the snails since that seemed to be the lazy way to do it... until the mess got so out of hand with these snails. Now considering that option again. 

Unfortunately, I am very restricted to whatever I can find. I live in Kona, Hawai`i and we only have 1 Petco here + 1 Petco on the other side of the island.  There are 3 other local folks that breed fish out of their homes (all 1-2 hrs away, only open very limited weird hours).  I dream of having a LFS or of having less restrictions as far as what we can import via shipping (Hawai`i has lots of restrictions on what live animals can be brought in).  So... I work with what I have or what I can get.  Even the rams horn snails were a very convenient stowaway in the Petco shipment they received a few years back.  They are technically supposed to euthanize any stowaways that they see.  Thankfully, I am a regular - always there on fish receiving day then again on the day after their "one day quarantine" if there is anything I want!  The fish person was able to sell me a plant that contained an "overlooked" stowaway RHSnail and the rest is history...  We can't readily import lots of stuff, and what we can import, is subject to delays and inspections that often means dead on arrival.

 

But alas, the puffers must eat!  I'll look at your set-up for ideas.  Thank you!  Aloha! 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@QBNOD I do recall the restrictions in Hawaii when stationed at Schofield Barracks on Oahu. I did look at an importing permit back then and that was so difficult then I can only imagine how it is now on the big island. I would try and source whatever is around you on the live food front. In general I'd say a worm is a worm and an insect is an insect so long as they are clean of anything harmful to the puffer. 

I am not well versed in the pea puffers but have used a drop of garlic extract/ garlic guard on food with some success on other species. My theory is they associate the smell to their normal food and are more willing to try the different offerings if the smell is there. 

If allowed on the island,  I would try cherry shrimp ( they did seem to be in stock at Kona petco on the app but that app is hit or miss), scuds, and worms. Up here whiteworms and grindal worms have been great for the smaller puffers along with appropriately sized earthworms from my firshroom earthworm farm. 

If your petco carries live crickets and I would consider trying pinhead or small emough versions to match the puffer mouth sizes. Pretty much everything eats crickets and it is probably a fairly decent natual meal for them to consume

[Brandon p]

The restrictions may be a blessing I wish Florida had them years ago. @mountaintoppufferkeeperknows better than me but my puffers will eat BBS but liked when I grew it bigger. I’m a Novice puffer keeper. I only learned that because I grew them bigger when I was sick. The shrimp where bigger than the little fish they where meant for.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Brandon p

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:52 AM, Brandon p said:

The restrictions may be a blessing I wish Florida had them years ago. @mountaintoppufferkeeperknows better than me but my puffers will eat BBS but liked when I grew it bigger. I’m a Novice puffer keeper. I only learned that because I grew them bigger when I was sick. The shrimp where bigger than the little fish they where meant for.

For the most part those restricted species move into a permit program for the standard educational or scientific purposes. One of the first invasive species I saw in Hawaii was a group of wild Veiled Chameleons in a tree on Schofield barracks and of course the mongoose. 

I do use the cherry shrimp and plants for some of the puffer fry. Given enough plant cover my shrimp group will eventually dwindle down to a sustainable colony of those who avoid the puffer predators while the adolescent shrimp will periodically become puffer food as they appear. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[Odd Duck]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:29 AM, QBNOD said:

@Odd Duck @Atitagain @mountaintoppufferkeeper @Lizzyduff 

My pea puffers are food snobs. Tried fasting them, tried all kinds of frozen foods (blood worms, krill, brine shrimp, etc.) & they only eat live rams horn snails or live baby brine shrimp.  I have them in a 14g cube, started with 5 & now down to 3. 

After 7 months, I had to break down the tank today & do a heavy scrub down of everything because the dead snail bits & algae were too tough of a battle.  Going to re-scape the tank now and try to find a better balance with more plants to deal with the algae situation.  I can't believe how dirty these guys are!  The substrate was gross. 

I rinsed a lot of the substrate (mix of fluval stratum, Landen aquasoil, & black aragonite) and going to start over.  I find they go into hiding when the water fowls up & get much more active when I do a heavy water change (70%+).  Weekly heavy water change seems to be a must for these guys.  I have lots of wood in there to break up the sight lines but it makes it very tough to keep everything clean.  They do love the hiding spots in between the wood.  I only have a sponge filter hidden in the there but don't want to clutter the tank with HOB or other option since this is a display frameless tank in my entryway. 

Anybody have pea puffer food snob remedies besides starving them for several days (that hasn't been effective)? I even added 2 plenaria worms to this tank when i had an outbreak in another tank a few months back hoping they world be food for them and eat some of the detritus but the puffers ignored them and then I had to hunt down and kill the plenaria when they started to multiply before I had a bigger problem (I know... I know... I was desperate for food options for them 🤦‍♂️) 

I live in fear of running out of RHsnails so a lot of my other tanks look like snail breeding operations (which they essentially are) & I want my old tanks back to what they once were!  I also worry about running out of BBShrimp.  Never had to stress so much about feeding fish before.  I was hoping live snails, BBS here & there, & frozen foods would be my strategy but it hasn't worked out at all.  I love these guys but the maintenance + food issues are starting to annoy me & that defeats the point of keeping them – even though they are so rad!

Thanks!

If you can get live whiteworms, blackworms, and Grindal worms anywhere, I would be working hard at getting them and growing them if you’re serious about having pea puffers.  Peas are notorious for being picky about food, so sometimes live foods are the only option.  Can you cultivate mosquito larvae?  They’re a decent option if they’re available.