Glued java fern on rocks turning brown/dying

[Karen B.]

Greetings!

I like to glue my java fern and java windolov fern on dragonstone. I try to put as little glue as possible and, for a while (sometimes weeks, other months), everything look great.

But then some brown appears on the leaf and slowly the fern disintegrate. I have yet to find a way to recover from it when it happen. The plant ends up dying.

I put fertilizer once or twice per week in my aquariums. However I have very low (if any) nitrate. Could this be the issue?

Here’s a rock I did 3 weeks ago. Every leaf was perfect and green. Now some are already starting to turn brown.

[Corbidorbidoodle]

I've run into the same problem. I had a dozen fernlets glued to a piece of driftwood and after a while they started the same thing. Seems to be contagious too. I removed the infected ferns and the adjacent ones as well. Seems to have stopped.

I actually had a few Java ferns and some buce or Anubis (can't remember which) tucked in to a driftwood crack in a different tank. The Java ferns were from the same parent plant. The brown death took out the ferns and the other adjacent epiphytes as well.

[Odd Duck]

If your nitrates are very low, you likely don’t have enough fertilizer in your water to support epiphytes.  They need some nitrates to survive.  I’m not a fertilizer expert so hopefully some will chime in with more specific advice, but for good epiphyte growth I think you should be aiming for at least 10-20 ppm nitrates in your water (even up to 40 ppm depending on the fish species you’re keeping) using a well balanced fertilizer that also has micronutrients.  Easy Green is excellent.

If your plants were grown emerse, there will almost always be some melting of mature leaves, but the plant should spring back eventually with appropriate ferts.  Java ferns are relatively slow growing, remember.  They will usually take a good while to recover from a melt.

[Jennifer V]

Have you tried dosing potassium? Java ferns suck up a lot of it so I've found that adding potassium to my tanks fixes the problem for the new leaves. 

[Brandon p]

How much glue did you use, there can be to much

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Only one of my Java fern is turning brown. I use 3 pumps Easy Green every week in a 29 gallon tank. Any ideas? Root systems look good and they are even making babies on the ends of their leaves.

ph 7.5

amm 0

Nitrite 0

NItrate 5

kH 80

gH 180

 

not sure why only 1 is affected?

 

[Karen B.]

On 5/25/2022 at 6:38 AM, Brandon p said:

How much glue did you use, there can be to much

Very little as possible!

[Patrick_G]

I have this problem too. My Java ferns seem to go through cycles that last many months. They’ll initially have some die off as they convert from immersed growth to submerged, then they’ll grow new leaves and look good for a long time and then they’ll start to go bad again. I really want to figure out the key to keeping these plants looking perfect in low tech conditions. Supplemental potassium seems to help, but it doesn’t completely solve the problem. 

[Shea Loner]

Have you had this die off when tieing the plants on? Its not as convienient as glue but it will rule out the glue causing this.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I attempted to use thread but my vision is not good enough to work with it.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:53 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I attempted to use thread but my vision is not good enough to work with it.

I had thread on one of my anubias, WAY too tight, ended up choking out half the rhizome.

I don't know what to say, but maybe this helps.  The whole thing being to make sure part of the rhizome is exposed and not completely covered in glue.

I've never had success with Java Fern, the rhizome can be very small/fragile too.
 

 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Definitely all roots and rhizome are exposed to the water. When I put glue I did it kind of on the side of a stem.

[Odd Duck]

When I glue any epiphytes, I use very small dots of glue and only on the parts of the rhizome that will be touching the wood/rock.  I prefit the rhizome where I want it to go, but also adjust so the rhizome will lay without tension on it.  Sometimes that’s in a crack, sometimes that’s curling around a protuberance, sometimes it up against a near vertical area, etc.  I fit the rhizome to where IT fits, not just where I want it, so tension against the side of the rhizome won’t gradually peel the rhizome off the glue, or the glue off the rock/wood, or the outside layer of tissue off the rhizome.  I think this gives the roots the best chance of clinging to the rock/wood and grabbing hold on their own.  The glue is NOT a permanent solution since the plant will grow and eventually, the oldest parts of the plant will die.  It can take months to years, but it will happen.  The plant needs to develop its own attachments.  Too much glue can damage the rhizome but it can also prevent early self attachment by the plant.

Now, do I always achieve the tiny dot goal?  Nah.  I fail on a regular basis.  But if I’ve tried for tiny dots, then there’s at least a decent chance that I haven’t over-glued the rhizome enough to damage it, nor applied so much glue that I’ve blocked the root’s access to the rock/wood.  How did I develop this technique?  By reading, then trying, then failing enough times that I figured out what I think the problem may be.  Am I right?  I don’t really know because I haven’t done any studies on how much is too much glue.  But this technique works for me and my more recent efforts have been much more successful than my early efforts where I got glue happy and tried to force the rhizomes to stick where they didn’t fit that well.  I personally prefer plants on wood because even with very dense wood, they attach themselves quicker than to porous rock, even lava rock.  I have multiple plants on rocks, a couple still stuck on rounded rocks, but they like to pop off those rounded rocks and they accumulate glue at each reattachment.  I’ve taken to moving them to small wood pieces when they pop off their rocks.

All this is just my opinion and take it for whatever it’s worth.  I figure if it helps anybody, it was worth the time taken to write it.  As to the dying fronds of Java fern, it happens, but if the overall plant is growing, then you’re doing OK.  If the overall plant isn’t growing, then most likely it either doesn’t have the right level or balance of nutrients or the light levels aren’t right. 

[Torrey]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:08 AM, Karen B. said:

Greetings!

I like to glue my java fern and java windolov fern on dragonstone. I try to put as little glue as possible and, for a while (sometimes weeks, other months), everything look great.

But then some brown appears on the leaf and slowly the fern disintegrate. I have yet to find a way to recover from it when it happen. The plant ends up dying.

I put fertilizer once or twice per week in my aquariums. However I have very low (if any) nitrate. Could this be the issue?

Here’s a rock I did 3 weeks ago. Every leaf was perfect and green. Now some are already starting to turn brown.

All my java and epiphytes take about 3 to 6 months to fully adjust to my water. I have discovered my snails do better if I break the weekly dose down into daily amounts. Surprise benefit was my plants started acclimating faster.

I keep a lot of snails in my tanks. They eat anything that starts melting, before the melt can spread to other leaves, much less plants. I have also gotten in the habit of floating my plants/ zip tyeing to a suction cup until they have decent roots. Once they have roots, I wrap the roots around whatever I am sticking them to, and if glue is still needed I use the cut end of a q-tip to apply a *dot* of superglue between the plant and the surface, and then hold in place for a full 5 minutes in a bowl of water. Then I move it to the aquarium. I learned the new gluing technique this year, so far it has been effective. I learned about suspending the plants last year with the ziptie and suction cup from Guppysnail, I can say that's been a huge success and I am losing less than 10% of my plants now.

[Kurt Brutting]

I have always struggled with farm grown Java Fern. I get needle leaf & Philippine Java Fern from Aquatic Peace already grown submerged. It makes a huge difference. 

[Brian]

I have never had that happen to me.  But, if you think it is the glue try using fishing line or rubber bands to hold it on the decoration.  
Also are you trying this with a new plant?  If you just purchased the plant maybe just leave it in your tank for a week or two.  

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I was wondering if rubber bands are safe for the tank? I want to rubber band Java moss to rocks because I don’t have the skill or eyesight for thread.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Odd Duck]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I was wondering if rubber bands are safe for the tank? I want to rubber band Java moss to rocks because I don’t have the skill or eyesight for thread.

I’ve used rubber bands in tanks many times over the years and while they’re safe enough, they don’t last very long.  They weaken and die quite quickly if they’re natural rubber.  Plastic ones stiffen and get brittle quickly.  I don’t plan on either type lasting much longer than about a month, tops.  

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 6/4/2022 at 8:05 AM, Odd Duck said:

I’ve used rubber bands in tanks many times over the years and while they’re safe enough, they don’t last very long.  They weaken and die quite quickly if they’re natural rubber.  Plastic ones stiffen and get brittle quickly.  I don’t plan on either type lasting much longer than about a month, tops.  

Ain't that the truth! Belt melt! These may be of use. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea, these rubber bands will tolerate being under water, UV light and temperature extremes. They're used in fishing and on boats a lot. For what it's worth, I've had plants attached to rocks with these for over a year and none have broken. 

Premium Angler Rubberbands

 

[Odd Duck]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:41 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Ain't that the truth! Belt melt! These may be of use. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea, these rubber bands will tolerate being under water, UV light and temperature extremes. They're used in fishing and on boats a lot. For what it's worth, I've had plants attached to rocks with these for over a year and none have broken. 

Premium Angler Rubberbands

 

Ooohh, interesting!  I did not know these existed!  Contemplating ordering some just to try them out, not because I actually need any.  😆 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:44 AM, Odd Duck said:

not because I actually need any.

Do we ever need half the stuff we buy for this hobby?  LOL

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I want to rubber band Java moss to rocks because I don’t have the skill or eyesight for thread.

Superglue is ridiculously easy for moss. Highly recommend that method for that plant.  You just bunch it up and stick it on the hardscape material of choice.

On 5/27/2022 at 2:23 PM, Torrey said:

All my java and epiphytes take about 3 to 6 months to fully adjust to my water. I have discovered my snails do better if I break the weekly dose down into daily amounts. Surprise benefit was my plants started acclimating faster.

My experience has been that they either do well, or they just never thrive.  I've had much better luck with Anubias.  If the Java fern isn't working for you there are other options like Buce and Anubias that would be options to try and would be added the same way to the tank.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:30 AM, Brian said:

Also are you trying this with a new plant

Plant was a couple months old and was doing well.  Then it just turned brown, but the leaves were still rigid.  They then started to deteriorate and cause ammonia, so I removed the dead leaves.  Oddly enough, the dying plant produced a bunch of babies.  This article says when the plant starts to die, it will do that. Pretty cool. It's like getting 10x my money's worth on 1 java fern.

Do you think there is a way I can glue to babies to the driftwood underwater?  Or would I have to take the whole driftwood out (I'd rather not).

[Odd Duck]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:23 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Plant was a couple months old and was doing well.  Then it just turned brown, but the leaves were still rigid.  They then started to deteriorate and cause ammonia, so I removed the dead leaves.  Oddly enough, the dying plant produced a bunch of babies.  This article says when the plant starts to die, it will do that. Pretty cool. It's like getting 10x my money's worth on 1 java fern.

Do you think there is a way I can glue to babies to the driftwood underwater?  Or would I have to take the whole driftwood out (I'd rather not).

I glue underwater often.  You just need to have already picked and tested your spot to make sure the plantlet will stay put with minimal pressure on the rhizome or it will eventually pull away from the glue.  Use 1 or 2 tiny dabs of glue where you expect the rhizome to contact the wood, press the plant into place swift and sure, and hold for at least 20 seconds.  Try to move one finger to hold the plant in place while you pry your other fingers away from the glue and be prepared to wear tiny glue and plant bits for about a day or so.  You can also use tweezers to place the plant but I seem to often end up gluing the plant to the tweezers.  Glue comes fingers easier than tweezers.

Happy gluing!

[Patrick_G]

On 6/25/2022 at 10:33 AM, Odd Duck said:

glue underwater often.

Thanks! Tip of the week!