Shark Conservation and the (Freshwater) Aquarium Hobby

[nabokovfan87]

Hey Everyone,

I had emailed into the co-op a few months back when I first watched the documentary and I wanted to attempt to briefly share a little bit about myself and my journey with the topic.  I spent today watching the first one and I'm always left with so much on my mind afterwards.

First, and this is not an exaggeration in any way, when I was a kid I wanted to grow up and be an oceanographer.  I wanted to do something with marine life, sharks specifically, and I was truly inspired by Steve Irwin and watching his shows growing up.  Another big part of my personality is wanting to be a professional chef, cooking, and wanting to learn about cultures through different cuisines of the world.  I ended up learning a lot about computers, went to college for computer engineering while I worked as a mechanical engineer.

I've always been interested in sharks.  They are my favorite animal, favorite hockey team, and just an amazing part of our world. 

Because of that interest I generally keep my eyes peeled during shark week specials, documentaries, and on those topics. Sharkwater was released a bit ago (2006) and was a journey of someone explaining how they got involved in their conservation.  They explain some amazing things about them, about how the main character has this awe of them.  It also talked about some pretty heavy topics and things impacting the species.

Later a special came out about sharks by Gordon Ramsey in 2011 and the thing that bothered me was that the images shown were of the exact same locations doing the exact same thing every single day and nothing had changed in that time period.

Which brings us to the topic I am posting about....  Sharkwater 2: Extinction (2018).

I knew this one existed but it took me a while to see the film. I never knew what it was specifically about, beyond it was more about Rob and his journey trying to conserve the animal he loved.  As the film ended, I sat there speechless as I watched this story unfold.  I was.... I felt like I needed to actually share information and one of those small ways to do so was to email my hockey team and to email Cory.  Simply put, I think both sides would absolutely support the message and the topic if they simply had someone recommend to them to go out and watch the documentary.  I tried to contain my passion and enthusiasm and simply recommend the film, briefly share the main topic that was relevant to the hobby.  I was shocked, amazed, and blown away when I had heard the topic mentioned on a live stream as a sort of "members only" movie night.  I genuinely hope it happens.

This documentary made me think about a lot of things, but one of the main topics of Sharkwater 2 is that there is a lot of "fish" based products that do contain shark.  As a result, those products contain mercury.  This does include many things you'd never imagine and there is a list you can find via sharkwater and their conservation efforts.

As for aquaria, I looked at the back of my fish food and saw those infamous words. "Fish Meal". 

I genuinely am curious and would like to get an answer from the companies that make the food products whether or not the products used inside of them do or don't contain shark during manufacturing or the final products.  My suggestion at the time of writing the previous emails being that companies could stand behind the conservation effort and use it as advertising. I sure as heck would support purchasing food, filters, and so many other products that I already use that had the shark free icons and stuff on the labels. These byproducts apply to so much more than just fish food and I seriously think the aquarium hobby, these companies in this hobby should look into it.  In the end, I believe that this is a great way to spread some publicity for the effort to save sharks. 

I want to recommend to anyone here, please go ahead and check out that film, I would spoil anything, but I can simply ask that anyone who does know the ending or Rob's story, please don't spoil it.

Below I want to quote/post the introduction from the first Sharkwater. This is the director Rob talking about his love of sharks.
 

Quote

 

For as long as I can remember I've been drawn to sharks. They're the most amazing and mysterious animal on Earth. I thought if I studied them, I could learn about life. About balance in the ocean and how to survive on Earth. That the one animal that we fear the most is the one we can't live without.  Predator of the sea, terror of all men who enter the ocean, the very symbol of lurking danger: That is the shark.

What is he really? We know little, except the shark was here before the continents took their present form, before the dinosaur lived, and he is still here, essentially unchanged. One of the oldest living things on Earth.  How has the shark survived when almost all that lived in the beginnings has either perished or changed?  Man must know all there is to know about this enemy. Whether the shark is really an enemy. If he is, how to protect against him. If he isn't, how to live with him.

You're told your whole life, since you're a kid sharks are dangerous. You're warned about venturing too far into the ocean, but then finally you're underwater and you see the thing you were taught your whole life to fear, and it's perfect and it doesn't want to hurt you. And it's the most beautiful thing you've ever seen and your whole world changes.

Ever since I was little, I've loved the ocean. Like many kids, I tried fishing, but realized I was much happier swimming with fish than catching them. Sharks were my favorite animals on Earth, but all I'd heard about was how dangerous they were. I hated being afraid and realized the only way to find out the truth about sharks was to meet one for myself.  I became an underwater photographer and a biologist and from that point on, I followed sharks.

So little is known about what they really are and how important they are to life on Earth. Two-thirds of the world's surface is water and over 80% of life on Earth lives in the ocean.  I learned to dive so I could get close to sharks, but photographing sharks was harder than I thought.  They're so afraid of us. Sharks can see us with more than their eyes.  They can sense our energy and they viewed me as a threat. Sharks have been here for more than 400 million years before the dinosaurs when life had just begun on land.

There was little oxygen in the atmosphere and only two continents. Sharks were shaping this world. Life on Earth evolved from the sea. The first animals were tiny, single-celled organisms that gave rise to algae, coral and tiny planktonic animals. More invertebrates followed, including squids and mollusks. One of the first vertebrates with jaws and the only large animal that's remained unchanged for 400 million years is the shark. New animals to evolve in the ocean have been shaped by their predators the sharks giving rise to schooling behavior, camouflage, speed, size and communication. Sharks control the populations below them eliminating species that were easy prey and creating new ones.

Even though sharks have very few young and take up to 25 years to reach sexual maturity they've managed to survive through five major extinctions that wiped most life from the planet. They're architects of our world. Most of what people know about sharks they've heard from the media. The more time I spent with sharks, the more I realized that they're nothing like what we're told. They are perfect predators that hold the underwater world in balance the lions and tigers of the seas. I spent so much time underwater so I could gain their trust and get close enough to film them.

Everything moved together, lived together, and died with a purpose. This shark and his relatives are long-established enemies of man. He is a wicked, unpredictable opponent. If sharks are in the area you can repel them with sounds by striking the surface of the water with your cupped hand. Or you can shout underwater. Among the visual methods of preventing attacks are directing a stream of bubbles from your life preserver in his direction. Tearing up paper into small pieces and scattering them all around the raft. If a shark threatens to attack you or damage the raft do not try to shoot or knife him. Chances are you would only slightly injure and infuriate him. Remember his front end is practically all mouth. Once in your raft stay there and remain quiet.

Remember that as a human being you are smarter than a shark, if you use your head. Elephants kill more people each year than sharks do so there's some deep-seated psychological revulsion about a cold-eyed monster coming out of the deep and picking you to pieces, but that is the myth, not the reality. It's weird that white sharks have such a bad reputation because they really hardly bite. If we go into the statistics, they are not the ones who bite the most. Definitely not. And it's very hard, actually, to approach a white shark.

 

This is a Photo, another conservationist. Matt Draper.  Amazing stuff.

Edited April 21, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Fish Folk]

Thanks for sharing. There are many, many different values among the people on our planet. But I deeply wish we could agree to value the responsible stewardship of life on earth and its thoughtful conservation. There is some sense in which this is a “first world” issue… both the exploitation, and the conservation. We, well-fed, financially solvent, thoroughly educated… we are often the same people who want massive quantities of “fish meal” products… as well (one the other hand) as those able to invest a lifetime in the study of marine conservation.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:44 AM, Fish Folk said:

Thanks for sharing. There are many, many different values among the people on our planet. But I deeply wish we could agree to value the responsible stewardship of life on earth and its thoughtful conservation. There is some sense in which this is a “first world” issue… both the exploitation, and the conservation. We, well-fed, financially solvent, thoroughly educated… we are often the same people who want massive quantities of “fish meal” products… as well (one the other hand) as those able to invest a lifetime in the study of marine conservation.

Unfortunately this is a larger scale issue than I think most people realize.   The people farming the sharks then, generally speaking, eat them culturally now. Furthering the use for the meat and more byproducts from oils, skin (i.e. sandpaper), food products for humans and pets.  I highly encourage everyone to go ahead and watch the film and decide for themselves.  I really, really don't want to "spoil" the story line and the impact it may or may not have on the viewer.  All I can say is that it's very well made and highly recommended.

There is a lot of things being sold as something else, now actually containing the mercury as a result.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/21/2022 at 12:30 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I've always been interested in sharks.  They are my favorite animal, favorite hockey team, and just an amazing part of our world. 

I totally agree!  Well, except for your clearly poor choice in hockey team.  😜

On 4/21/2022 at 12:30 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I genuinely am curious and would like to get an answer from the companies that make the food products whether or not the products used inside of them do or don't contain shark during manufacturing or the final products.  My suggestion at the time of writing the previous emails being that companies could stand behind the conservation effort and use it as advertising. I sure as heck would support purchasing food, filters, and so many other products that I already use that had the shark free icons and stuff on the labels. These byproducts apply to so much more than just fish food and I seriously think the aquarium hobby, these companies in this hobby should look into it.  In the end, I believe that this is a great way to spread some publicity for the effort to save sharks.

So, I think this is a great idea!  I wonder if it might be more effective as regulation that shark ingredients can't be hidden in generic ingredient categories like "fish meal"?  I wonder if a lobbying group might not take up this mantel?  This seems like the sort of feel good legislation that is not a thread to major industry which could get bipartisan support, even in this polarized climate.  If you are interested in exploring this route, feel free to DM me if you are having trouble identifying an organization.  Though I don't have any friends currently working on sharks, I do have a number in the conservation non-profit space and marine biologist friends who might be able to offer suggestions. 

Some thoughts.

[Wrencher_Scott]

The sad thing is, when it comes to the ocean sharks are not even the tip of the iceberg. All sorts of marine animals like corals are ripped from reefs all day every day to feed the salt water keepers hobby. Very sad. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:41 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

So, I think this is a great idea!  I wonder if it might be more effective as regulation that shark ingredients can't be hidden in generic ingredient categories like "fish meal"?  I wonder if a lobbying group might not take up this mantel?  This seems like the sort of feel good legislation that is not a thread to major industry which could get bipartisan support, even in this polarized climate.  If you are interested in exploring this route, feel free to DM me if you are having trouble identifying an organization.  Though I don't have any friends currently working on sharks, I do have a number in the conservation non-profit space and marine biologist friends who might be able to offer suggestions. 

Makes total sense. Unfortunately there is a lot of $$$ that people want to use to protect the politics and even where there are laws they are ignored. I absolutely agree through, there is a very easy "feel good" way to make change and it's going to take some effort. 

Sharkwater does do lobbying and does have some weight in that avenue. They have some groups that are associated and listed on their website for the cause as well as news updates for major corporations who have reviewed or changed their products as a result of the new information brought to light.

Please be sure to pass on the recommendation to any friends would be in the field to check out the movie!!

On 4/21/2022 at 4:50 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

The sad thing is, when it comes to the ocean sharks are not even the tip of the iceberg. All sorts of marine animals like corals are ripped from reefs all day every day to feed the salt water keepers hobby. Very sad. 

Absolutely agreed and that's also very important for hobbyist to do whatever they can. Learning about project piaba was really cool for me because I know that just by buying from a specific seller I can help with those changes.

Edited April 22, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Currently watching one that was suggest on the forums here.

I would like to mention / add:

FIN (discovery plus for streaming): This is one specifically about sharks, newest one I think that is out on the subject, and it's made by Eli Roth.
Seaspiracy (Netflix streaming): This one discusses a variety of topics, the biggest one being plastics and sustainable fishing.

The Sharkwater: Extinction mentioned in the OP is directly related to the aquarium hobby.  I want to keep things focused on that topic and just wanted to briefly mention those 2 as a means to say "these exist" for anyone who may not have heard of them.

Secondly, I did email Xtreme about 7 days ago.  I sent them a link to this thread as well.  I don't know if I will get a reply back, but I simply asked them if they have heard of the issue and if they have looked into it for their products.  I really think being able to verify something as "shark free", like I said before be it a sponge or an actual food product, is something that isn't easy to do but it's a good way to share information about the issue and try to support practices that benefit our fish as well as the world we live in.

Part of this issue of verifying this is something discussed pretty heavily in the seaspiracy documentary.

Lastly, I found this today.  Very beautiful photo.

Edited July 14, 2022 by nabokovfan87
added details

[Gwallace]

It would be very interesting to send an email to each of the major food manufacturers and simply ask "what is the source for your fish meal?".  I would be amazed if any answered at all.  But very, very impressed by any that did disclose that information. 

[Guppysnail]

On 7/14/2022 at 7:42 AM, Gwallace said:

It would be very interesting to send an email to each of the major food manufacturers and simply ask "what is the source for your fish meal?".  I would be amazed if any answered at all.  But very, very impressed by any that did disclose that information. 

There is a thread on here where someone did this for their local fish club. @MJV Aquatics is who did it I will try to find the thread. 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Guppysnail

[nabokovfan87]

Definitely some interesting replies there from manufacturer's. I can appreciate "good intent" and I can appreciate their efforts to try to do things sustainably.  I think there's likely a reason to go ahead and try to have some of these things lab tested.

One of my logics for doing so is something like aquaculture and foods uses in that industry. That directly impacts us. It is definitely not an easy issue to solve and something like the changes illustrated in the world from sharkwater 1 to sharkwater 2 definitely highlights some ways that "the industry" of finning has gone a long way to try and obfuscate what is being done.

I read an article last night that stated that one of the only real methods to help the situation is similar to project piaba, tourism and people travelling to see sharks, hiring boats to do so, is something that is a means of encouraging people who are just trying to survive to earn money another way.  That mindset is hopeful, but there's a lot that has to change for that to remotely be successful. 

There was a recent arrest on this called Operation Apex that highlights just how close to home this issue is for me, potentially a lot of hobbyists.  I can't tell you the amount of times I've thought about taking a trip one day to northern California and being amazed when I see a shark at a beach or take a boat ride to go and see one on a migration route.  I truly admire so many things in nature, and I really just hope that things improve.

[Biotope Biologist]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:30 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hey Everyone,

I had emailed into the co-op a few months back when I first watched the documentary and I wanted to attempt to briefly share a little bit about myself and my journey with the topic.  I spent today watching the first one and I'm always left with so much on my mind afterwards.

First, and this is not an exaggeration in any way, when I was a kid I wanted to grow up and be an oceanographer.  I wanted to do something with marine life, sharks specifically, and I was truly inspired by Steve Irwin and watching his shows growing up.  Another big part of my personality is wanting to be a professional chef, cooking, and wanting to learn about cultures through different cuisines of the world.  I ended up learning a lot about computers, went to college for computer engineering while I worked as a mechanical engineer.

I've always been interested in sharks.  They are my favorite animal, favorite hockey team, and just an amazing part of our world. 

Because of that interest I generally keep my eyes peeled during shark week specials, documentaries, and on those topics. Sharkwater was released a bit ago (2006) and was a journey of someone explaining how they got involved in their conservation.  They explain some amazing things about them, about how the main character has this awe of them.  It also talked about some pretty heavy topics and things impacting the species.

Later a special came out about sharks by Gordon Ramsey in 2011 and the thing that bothered me was that the images shown were of the exact same locations doing the exact same thing every single day and nothing had changed in that time period.

Which brings us to the topic I am posting about....  Sharkwater 2: Extinction (2018).

I knew this one existed but it took me a while to see the film. I never knew what it was specifically about, beyond it was more about Rob and his journey trying to conserve the animal he loved.  As the film ended, I sat there speechless as I watched this story unfold.  I was.... I felt like I needed to actually share information and one of those small ways to do so was to email my hockey team and to email Cory.  Simply put, I think both sides would absolutely support the message and the topic if they simply had someone recommend to them to go out and watch the documentary.  I tried to contain my passion and enthusiasm and simply recommend the film, briefly share the main topic that was relevant to the hobby.  I was shocked, amazed, and blown away when I had heard the topic mentioned on a live stream as a sort of "members only" movie night.  I genuinely hope it happens.

This documentary made me think about a lot of things, but one of the main topics of Sharkwater 2 is that there is a lot of "fish" based products that do contain shark.  As a result, those products contain mercury.  This does include many things you'd never imagine and there is a list you can find via sharkwater and their conservation efforts.

As for aquaria, I looked at the back of my fish food and saw those infamous words. "Fish Meal". 

I genuinely am curious and would like to get an answer from the companies that make the food products whether or not the products used inside of them do or don't contain shark during manufacturing or the final products.  My suggestion at the time of writing the previous emails being that companies could stand behind the conservation effort and use it as advertising. I sure as heck would support purchasing food, filters, and so many other products that I already use that had the shark free icons and stuff on the labels. These byproducts apply to so much more than just fish food and I seriously think the aquarium hobby, these companies in this hobby should look into it.  In the end, I believe that this is a great way to spread some publicity for the effort to save sharks. 

I want to recommend to anyone here, please go ahead and check out that film, I would spoil anything, but I can simply ask that anyone who does know the ending or Rob's story, please don't spoil it.

Below I want to quote/post the introduction from the first Sharkwater. This is the director Rob talking about his love of sharks.
 

This is a Photo, another conservationist. Matt Draper.  Amazing stuff.

 

On 7/13/2022 at 11:37 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Currently watching one that was suggest on the forums here.

I would like to mention / add:

FIN (discovery plus for streaming): This is one specifically about sharks, newest one I think that is out on the subject, and it's made by Eli Roth.
Seaspiracy (Netflix streaming): This one discusses a variety of topics, the biggest one being plastics and sustainable fishing.

Sorry I found this topic rather late. I admit I’ve been busy the last few months. Firstly @nabokovfan87 thanks for bringing up this topic, it’s an important discussion. Also it’s a shame you didn’t committ to oceanography I think we lost a good one in that decision. 
 

Second I need to make abundantly clear I signed an NDA with my work even though I’m no longer employed with them, it’s federal and they take that very seriously. To the point I couldn’t share pics from my work. Which 99% were just really awesome fish species noone sees. I cannot speak about specific fishing companies or their practices. But I can give some insight to the fishing industry on the west coast. The east coast follow  similar practices, but there is some politics there I could spend an essay talking about…

 

Okay on to my words of wisdom: Seaspiracy is not an accurate depiction of fishing practices in the United States. This documentary enraged the fishing community as it tends to exaggerate the truth. Many fishermen I worked with are very concerned about the oceans and sustainability as their jobs are quite literally and figuratively on the line. The United States fishing industry is heavily monitored. In the tuna industry they will catch sharks commonly as bycatch. Usually they are thrown back unharmed. But Oceanic Mako is a very delicious food item and in parts of Washington and Oregon, probably California, but I have less experience there, it fetches a very nice price tag. All the meat is used and I believe it can be had at market for $10-15/lb. Very delicious I recommend if you visit the sleepy fishing villages. They are not threatened. They are stored in vats of ice cold butter milk and often there is only room on board for 5-10 adult specimens. Tuna fetches a very high price and while the oil is used in fish meal products it’s meat is too valuable especially overseas, To our pacific oceanic countries that border us (albeit distantly). Most of the fish meal seen in the United States comes from pollock and hake. It consists of parts that are not of value at the time. This may include gonads, fins, bones, intestines. But there are some tribes and Asian peoples who enjoy pollock gonads as Pacific Cod is on a heavy decline. The fish meal can also have bycatch such as squid, rockfish and dogfish. But I think if I remember correctly it can no longer be food grade if it has more than 8% by yield of bycatch. So often it ends up back in the ocean to hopefully recycle nutrients.

 

On to the sharkies! My SO is very attached to them as she worked with them on the Atlantic side. I remember discussing them but I don’t want to put words in her mouth. I know she said that they needed to do alot more research on them but they did do some tagging and found they have quite an interesting social network. If I can find articles I will post them.

 

In our west coast industry unfortunately we do see them as bycatch and they are released almost always unalive. We do not have any idea of historic populations numbers for most of these. Although interestingly salmon sharks are on the incline despite their favorite food source (it’s in the name) being on the decline. Stomach samples show dogshark and cod(?). It seems the puget sound is becoming a possible *holding my breath* breeding site for the cod! ninja sharks and dogsharks were the most common bycatch in the hake industry as far as sharks go. Oceanic sharks were rare and made up less than 1% of bycatch. But they always have the highest impact. These numbers are public information. I do also want to stress that incidental bycatch in these industry usually make up less than 1% of all catch. This is all bycatch! Saw a beautiful oceanic thresher shark on one of my cruises. The blues on these sharks is unreal. I understand that this is active camouflage but wow they are as deep blue as the ocean itself. Anyway unfortunately everything else is tight lipped and most of this information can be accessed on paid subscription journal sites. I had access for free but no longer do. Perhaps I can use my googlefoo to dig some up for y’all 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:02 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

On to the sharkies! My SO is very attached to them as she worked with them on the Atlantic side. I remember discussing them but I don’t want to put words in her mouth. I know she said that they needed to do alot more research on them but they did do some tagging and found they have quite an interesting social network. If I can find articles I will post them.

I was reading about this last night! https://oceanographicmagazine.com/news/social-structures-great-white-sharks/
 

On 7/14/2022 at 11:02 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

In our west coast industry unfortunately we do see them as bycatch and they are released almost always unalive.

I was watching a brief scientific response to the documentary regarding bycatch this morning.  One of the points mentioned was that when the sharks are released, they are so exhausted that a very high % of them dies.  They also broke down the records available for fishing deaths, some sort of a data set, and it discussed the deaths across bycatch vs. other metrics.  Bycatch was a very high portion of those deaths as a result of total shark deaths.  I can share that via DM if you're interested.

That being said, I was pondering this previously and I wanted to clarify something for the sake of saying the words out loud.  If we say that fishing isn't a cause of major issues, then we open ourselves up for the fishermen to say that finning is the cause.  This is a common tactic when studies are released and it's simply a point / counterpoint type of politics like lobbying in any other industry. Specifically in Costa Rica.  A lot of this was highlighted in the sharkwater documentaries as a focus of how to demonstrate legal flaws in the system.  For Rob, this was the main focus of his efforts.  On the other side of the coin, anything that comes out and says how devastating shark finning is would in turn give fisheries a leg to stand on and use the massive nets and attempt to ignore bycatch.  In my mind, I hope future politicians and policy makers across the globe can understand that bycatch, finning, shark byproducts are all detrimental to the ecosystem.  In grade school I learned about the amount of mercury in some ocean predators is so high because it's slowly been building over time, posing a serious risk to humans.  This is also going to rise again if we see continued use of shark byproducts.  This is going to be the same situation with plastics and their toxins/pollutants/colorants that we are now eating, which was left out of seaspiracy.

Another perspective for all of this, especially anyone who manufactures a product is the mentality of "out of sight, out of mind".  Say I have a company that makes high quality foods for humans.  As a chef, the encouragement is to make sure you're using whole, fresh ingredients. Once we start processing things down for big batches, once we start modifying things with preservatives and for the sake of freezing them for longer term storage, a lot of what makes the food healthy disappears. What this also does is shade what was done to the product before it arrived at your facility.  In my previous job, we have government agencies, major corporations coming in to audit us.  I think anyone who has been in those shoes knows that you put on a good face for that day.  "Surprise inspections" really aren't the majority of the times and it's very easy to know when you're going to do well or when you're going to struggle.  These type of interactions happen many times a day across a variety of industries as well as residential (city inspections) and once that inspector leaves, not much can be done.

This is where a lot of the struggle, the question is for me now.
 

On 7/14/2022 at 11:02 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

On to the sharkies! My SO is very attached to them as she worked with them on the Atlantic side. I remember discussing them but I don’t want to put words in her mouth

If you two haven't seen it, I highly recommend sharkwater 1/2, and the playing with sharks documentary.  If you have seen sharkwater 2, I won't ask you to spoil it here, but I would really like to know what the thoughts were after the ending.  It hit me so hard emotionally in a way a lot of movies just can't.
 

On 7/14/2022 at 11:02 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Firstly @nabokovfan87 thanks for bringing up this topic, it’s an important discussion. Also it’s a shame you didn’t committ to oceanography I think we lost a good one in that decision. 

Genuinely, one of the nicest things anyone has said to me.  I really appreciate those words.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:41 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

  I wonder if it might be more effective as regulation that shark ingredients can't be hidden in generic ingredient categories like "fish meal"?

I have a book you might be interested in.  When I finish it I will have to reach out and figure out if that's something you'd enjoy being sent your way.  Honestly, it's a very good start to answering this question, partially, and it's relation to conservation efforts (not just sharks, but a variety of species). 

Book is called "why sharks matter" and I'm glad I stumbled upon it for the sake of nothing more than I just get the opportunity to learn a lot more than I have about sharks.  It's very interesting when you have someone elaborate on a different perspective and you see something in a different light.  It's sort of like a "snarky" philosophy textbook of sorts centered on animal conservation of ocean species. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:58 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

When I finish it I will have to reach out and figure out if that's something you'd enjoy being sent your way.

That's a very kind offer!  But with the title, which you kindly provided, I can grab it at the library.  Thanks for letting me know about it!

[nabokovfan87]

I was finally able to watch "Fin" which is the most recent documentary on the subject and is slightly over 1 year old.  This is a documentary which may have had a bigger reach because it was (I believe this is accurate) brought on shark week as a main feature.  This was due to the editing, timeframe, and need for content during the pandemic.  I look at this as a blessing and a curse because unfortunately "Shark Week" doesn't really feature a lot of documentary style films.  I hope this changes in future, but I have my hopes set pretty low based on new information from reading the above mentioned book.  Sharks "in the news" and gory, violent titles seem to make a bigger splash when it comes to ratings than something like Fin or Sharkwater and that is very tragic.  I even remember the year that the featured a spoof film (starting a trend for fake content) which showed media and created content in a documentary style for Megaladon lives.

What I can say about this one is that it hit me pretty hard from moment one.  The first couple of scenes were about as shocking as they were to the person behind the camera making the film.  It was from the perspective of someone who wanted to learn more, who didn't know a lot, and was pretty much tossed right into the events and got to see firsthand what things are like.  There is a ridiculous chicken and egg argument that one of the "finners" makes which is just one of the most bizarre claims I've ever heard as well as transitioning from that moment into a fishing tournament where they claimed it was research and even associated directly with NOAA.  Seeing scientists basically waiting at the wings on multiple occasions at different events to take tissue samples for research from people killing hundreds of sharks a day.

It's not my place to spew a bunch of statistics and repeat things from the movie, but what I can say is that yet again it was all tied back to a dish which was demonstrated yet again to the general public that is nothing but a status symbol.  The entire chicken and egg situation yet again where the shark is killed for this dish and that dish is expensive for the sake of it being a status symbol, keeping the price of the ingredient high, that isn't actually required at all for the dish.  Gordon Ramsey's documentary said it best.... it's just broth.

Anyways, the crux of the movie, as with all of these is the closing moments and trying to seriously hit home to the viewer.  The impact of things like "fish and chips" and not realizing you're eating mercury.  The impact of using sunscreen and not realizing what you're putting on your skin.  I am glad to hear that there is works in progress to create a "shark free" label.  However, given the controversial impact of something like the dolphin labeling on cans of tuna being nothing more than that and cannot fully be verified.  Holding people accountable would go a long way as well as changing the public perception of the issues.  I think Fin strikes a good balance in showing the issues as plainly as anything I've ever seen as well as showing the impact of those events to everyone watching.  I can't imagine anyone would be able to walk away from viewing that movie and not looking at the back labels of products they use every day.

I'll end with a few research studies on why this is an issue.  Keep in mind that this comes into our aquariums through products like fish oil and fish meal most commonly.

2013: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7008590/

2017: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415793/

2018-19: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7794238/

[AllFishNoBrakes]

While I haven’t seen the movies/documentaries, nor read the books mentioned above, I have to assume that the documentary is about “a certain dish” in which a specific piece of the shark is harvested and then the rest of the animal is thrown back to sea to sink to the bottom…

Sharks have been my favorite animal since I was a small child. I had posters of Tiger Sharks in my room and my nickname from my uncle was even “Shark Man” because I was absolutely obsessed with sharks! I hadn’t seen my uncle in 20+ years, but last summer my mom got remarried, and my uncle came into town for the festivities. I told my girlfriend, “Just watch; he’s gonna call me “Shark Man” and sure enough, even 2 decades later as a full grown adult, he called me by my childhood nickname. Some things just never change!
 

Even though my 14+ tanks are all freshwater and planted, sharks continue to hold a special place in my heart. About once per year my girlfriend and I go to the Downtown Aquarium and even though I’ve seen it many times, I can’t wait to get to the last section, the “final hoorah” if you will, which is a giant saltwater tank that houses several species of sharks. I could sit there for hours and watch them pass by at eye level, above me, and below me, while also admiring the Saw Tooth Sharks that reside on the bottom and the giant Barracuda that was in the tank the last time we visited a couple of months ago. I will literally pay the entry fee, and enjoy the rest of the exhibits, but I always can’t wait to get to the crown jewel which is admiring all the sharks. 
 

Sharks are incredible. They’re older than most things on this planet and play a vital role in the ecosystem as a whole. My question is, how do we actually implement change and stop traditions for a dish that is a status symbol? I wish the answer was easy and the outcome would be grand, but obviously the answer isn’t THAT easy…
 

Cheers, Nerms. Enjoy the things around you and revel in the beauty that is nature. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:16 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I have to assume that the documentary is about “a certain dish” in which a specific piece of the shark is harvested and then the rest of the animal is thrown back to sea to sink to the bottom…

That is the story about 20 or so years ago, yes. A lot has changed, that's about the easiest way to put it.

 

On 7/16/2023 at 8:16 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I told my girlfriend, “Just watch; he’s gonna call me “Shark Man” and sure enough, even 2 decades later as a full grown adult, he called me by my childhood nickname. Some things just never change!

That's awesome. 🙂

On 7/16/2023 at 8:16 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

My question is, how do we actually implement change and stop traditions for a dish that is a status symbol?

There is basically 3-5 main methods right now in work.

1. Banning certain things via politics.

2. Regulation of how many and methodology to create a "sustainable" system. (Basically it's been states that this is practically impossible and that the vast majority of things like inspectors just disappear constantly)

3. Shame, and the older generation that demand this no longer being around. Ensuring that the new generation understands it for what it is. Example being posters showing that the fins are literally treated like sewage and dried in streets and gutters.  There is also much darker (i.e. illegitimate) tones to what this money funds.

4. Changing public mindset around the animal. Jaws did a lot of damage. The "strongman" approach to killing a shark also does a lot of damage, foolishly.

5. Protected areas to ban fishing of any kind in these regions.

Considering that you also have a love of sharks I would highly recommend some of these movies. Not for the sake of making you feel negatively about the state of things, but as mentioned there are some that focus on the beauty and love of the species.

A. Playing with sharks (Disney+)

B. Sharkwater 1 (not sure, I have it on DVD)

C. Sharkwater 2: Extinction (Amazon prime)

Expanding knowledge into the subjects presented, if you've enjoyed the previous ones:

D. Gordon Ramsey's Film

E. Seaspiracy

F. Fin

(The afforementioned book as well is a really great read, very light, for anyone interested in conservation, research, or sharks)

[AllFishNoBrakes]

@nabokovfan87 Appreciate the insight and in-depth response. I agree with you, completely, but also have to say…

-You can make anything illegal or impose fines (if caught) or ban things outright, but that doesn’t really stop anything. Being the mischievous teenager, and young adult that I was, I can tell you firsthand that just because something “shouldn’t” be done certainly didn’t stop me. It just made me be more aware and be more careful so I didn’t get caught. After all, nothing is illegal, until you get caught, right? I know and understand that I’m completely playing devils advocate here, but the problem remains. We can create all the regulations and impose all the fines, but even then the delicacy just becomes that much more sought after and prices continue to rise. It is terrible, it is wrong, living things are harmed in the process, but how do you effectively impose change?

On 7/16/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

3. Shame, and the older generation that demand this no longer being around. Ensuring that the new generation understands it for what it is. Example being posters showing that the fins are literally treated like sewage and dried in streets and gutters.  There is also much darker (i.e. illegitimate) tones to what this money funds.

4. Changing public mindset around the animal. Jaws did a lot of damage. The "strongman" approach to killing a shark also does a lot of damage, foolishly.

This. This is what has to change. It takes a collective mindset-shift to “erase” centuries of habits and status. I agree completely, this change should absolutely happen, I just don’t know how to make it happen on a global scale. 

 

On 7/16/2023 at 10:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Considering that you also have a love of sharks I would highly recommend some of these movies. Not for the sake of making you feel negatively about the state of things, but as mentioned there are some that focus on the beauty and love of the species.

I’ll have to make some time and check some of these out!

As always, I appreciate your insight and your general quest for sharing information and perspective. I hope I’m not coming off as “things are impossible to change” but I truly don’t know how to change literally centuries of thinking and practice in culture I don’t personally participate in. I can only hope that in the time I have in this planet I personally see a shift in culture and thinking. 

[Biotope Biologist]

I do hope more research comes our way and more opportunity for research. Especially here on the west coast some very cryptic species of sharks ive longed to know more about and potentially work with.

 

Sixgill, Sevengill, pacific sleeper, and my personal favorite ninja lanternshark. Little cuties. 
 

The mindset being erased is one where for 1000 years we have thought the oceans are so vast and limitless that we could never find the end. And to be fair it took us 1000 years of poor management and exploitation to find that end 😅 but I really don’t have such a negative view as some of my colleagues do. In fact I believe that scientists as a whole have become kinda a dismal crowd. The bummer at the party warning of the impending hangover after all the kegs tapped… 

 

We are finding that as soon as you take the stressors out of the environment populations rebound. Very quickly. Like within 5 years. Where before we thought it’d take hundreds of years to undo the damage we have done.

 

I will leave it at that. There are so many complexities and this whole system is interconnected I know it seems difficult but the world will recover. 

[nabokovfan87]

From Aqueon.  They don't have all of the correct talking points, but it is indeed surprising and welcomed to see this sort of an impact in the hobby.

https://www.aqueon.com/nutrinsect

 

Here is the ingredients list from the tropical version of the food mentioned.

[nabokovfan87]

I was able to get a response from Aqueon via their support email regarding how they source the ingredients for the food.

The krill oil is from wild harvested krill.

It also contains shrimp meal which may be from aquacultured shrimp or wild caught shrimp.  I have no information on the diets of the shrimp used to make the shrimp meal.

There are no fish origin ingredients including shark.

[nabokovfan87]

If you wish to try it out, please check out the deal right now on amazon!