To do a automatic water change system or not, that is the question?

[Tedrock]

Howdy Nerms!

I have grown into a fish room and breeding and would like to start a auto water top off or change system soon, maybe.  Do you have any pitfalls or suggestions to consider as I research/plan?

I have 25 tanks currently with city water.  What are thoughts on drip lines verses sumps filter?  Is it ok with DIY overflows or should you really have bulkheads.

I really don't want to get ahead of myself just looking for some wisdom to center my thoughts.

Many thanks,

Tedrock.

[Cory]

I personally wouldn't only every do bulkheads, when the DIY ones lose siphons, it's just a flood. 

[FrostiesFishes]

I second @Coryit’s so much more work, just use bulk heads. It’s a little intimidating at first but as long as you have a good hole saw it’s not a big deal.  take your time it’s not that bad . And you can still fill the same with a python. So you don’t have to do a total auto water change system . But just draining the tanks with the bulk heads . I set my 25% down on the tanks . And I drain them and refill. And I gravel vac as needed. And honestly you don’t need to change water as often as you think . A lot of people change water out of habit. I Change water weekly but my tanks are very heavily stocked do to breeding. But I wouldn’t ever start to worry till week 3 or 4 with out a change. And if you could test to see if that’s even needed. I don’t test unless I see a problem. A lot of people hate duckweed, hornwort and other fast growing plants but they really Do a good job at filtering water. Personally I’d rather throw away pounds of duckweed/guppy grass /hornwart weekly then water change and honestly that works a lot of the time. 

[DavidR]

I envy those that have auto water change systems. Having the ability to change 10% or so daily would be awesome, especially in fry tanks.

[tolstoy21]

Yes do one! 

If you're even remotely handy, build one. It's an interesting project and anything that alleviates manual labor is awesome in my book. By trade I'm a computer infrastructure automation engineer, so yeah, automate things. As I tell my employees, build robots, don be robots!

I've had a semi-automatic WC system on my 125 for a few years and just switched to a drip system. The drip part of it gets me to a 100% automated solution (minus the occasional gravel vac).

I also just started down the path to setting up a drip system for a small rack of breeding tanks in my basement so I can't comment on if drip is better than other methods, as I haven't been running that long enough, but anything you can do towards automation is 100% the way to go.

Also, drilling tanks is the way to go. It's visually cleaner looking, less bulky than a lot of PVC in the tanks, and you don't have to worry about losing siphon.

Drilling glass seems frightening at first, but once you've done it once, you'll be like -- wow that was easy! 

The one tip I have for glass drilling is make a template for the drill bit out of wood and clamp that to the tank. This both keeps the hole saw from skittering across the glass as you as you try to make that initial cut and also helps create a small reservoir. I did this with a simple wood scrap, and now I just pop it onto any tank I want to drill and the bulkhead hole is in the same place every time.

When I drill I also just use a squirt bottle to spritz the work semi-frequently. I see lots of people running hose water over their work, but I never found this to be 100% necessary. You just want to avoid the allowing the bit and the glass to get too hot, and this is usually caused by the dry friction and lack of good heat sink, like a puddle of water. So keep the work wet so theres a nice little puddle around the bit, drill a few moments, take a tiny break, spritz the work  again. Rinse, repeat. It will be far less labor than creating PVC siphons. Cutting and gluing and testing a ton of PVC sounds too time consuming.

Edited October 16, 2020 by tolstoy21

[Andy's Fish Den]

I vote to do the auto water change system, if you don't you will wish you did down the road. I know I do every time I pull my python hose out and go to draining tanks and refilling. 

I would recommend drilling tanks, I have drilled quite a few when I kept saltwater so I could put a sump and not have an overflow box that would lose siphon and flood. My tips for drilling, but a good quality diamond glass drill bit. get one form someplace like Jehmco, not eBay. the eBay ones will only last a few holes. Start out with at last 20 gallon or larger tanks, the smaller the tank, the thinned the glass and the easier it is to crack the glass. Ten gallon tanks can be difficult to drill. Use a template you cut out of wood as suggested above, also, either take some duck tape and put on the inside of the glass where you'll be drilling, or set a towel in the tank, I have broken tanks from when the hole saw gets through and the circle that's being cut out falls and hits the pane of glass underneath. 

Good luck with building out your fishroom, be sure to documents and share, I'm sure there are others who can learn from anything you can pass on.

[NordernAquariums]

Great topic @Tedrock! I am planning to move next spring and build a fish room, I have been considering the question of whether or not to automate. A few questions:

• Do you think drip systems waste too much water?
  • If I do a 25% traditional water change on a 10 gallon, I know I have 25% new water. If I use a drip system and change 25%, how much new water do I have?
  • My water is rather extreme, GH 300, KH 300+, pH 8.0, TDS 550, Nitrate 20PPM
  • Due to my water, interest in breeding, and fish selection I use quite a bit of RO, so I already feel a bit wasteful. 
• What would a semi-automated alternative to a drip system be?

Any insight would be great. Thank you

[DavidR]

What size drainage pipe should I use? Seems everyone uses 2", but could I use smaller? I'm going to need to cut some holes in walls to install this tube so smaller is better.

[tolstoy21]

I believe the diameter of pipe and bulkhead is determined by the flow rate you wish to achieve through it. I use 1/2" on my basement tanks, which is fine to accommodate drip fed water.

On my 125 gallon aquarium, I have a 1 1/2" bulk head installed in the sump so I can trigger larger water changes of around 40 gallons at a time (when I need to occasionally do that). Not sure if a smaller bulkhead would suffice in that scenario, but I didn't want to risk reducing the flow rate in a way that would overflow onto my floor. My experience tells me I could maybe go down to 1" for that specific setup. 

In my other systems that do drip changes, 1/2" works perfectly. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

Below is a link to a basic chart of standard PVC flow rates.

I'd assume the rate at which you're putting water into the tank probably equals the rate at which its going to come out. 

The drain rate would be non-pressurized in this scenario. 

#1 FlexPVC®.com Water Flow Charts Based on Pipe Size (GPM/GPH) ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

FLEXPVC.COM

---

Water Flow Volume for a given pipe size based on charts, tables, formula, nomograph, & experience.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by tolstoy21

[Tedrock]

12 hours ago, Cory said:

I personally wouldn't only every do bulkheads, when the DIY ones lose siphons, it's just a flood. 

Thank you for the advice Cory.  When you watch all the DIY videos that make PVC overflows sound so easy and reasonable.  I was little nervous about the whole drilling thing but I rewatched your making a fish room series and I feel better.  Also the wisdom from the other NERMS and posters make me feel that it is the way to go.  Looks like I will be ordering stuff from Jehmco someday soon.

Many thanks

Tedrock

[Tedrock]

8 hours ago, FrostiesFishes said:

 And you can still fill the same with a python. So you don’t have to do a total auto water change system . But just draining the tanks with the bulk heads . 

Thank you FrostiesFishes for the guidance about starting with the bulkheads first and still using the python.  This gives a gradual approach to this daunting project because I really can't afford to do everything at once.  My time is another story.

Many thanks 

Tedrock

[Tedrock]

4 hours ago, tolstoy21 said:

The one tip I have for glass drilling is make a template for the drill bit out of wood and clamp that to the tank. This both keeps the hole saw from skittering across the glass as you as you try to make that initial cut and also helps create a small reservoir. I did this with a simple wood scrap, and now I just pop it onto any tank I want to drill and the bulkhead hole is in the same place every time.

When I drill I also just use a squirt bottle to spritz the work semi-frequently. I see lots of people running hose water over their work, but I never found this to be 100% necessary. You just want to avoid the allowing the bit and the glass to get too hot, and this is usually caused by the dry friction and lack of good heat sink, like a puddle of water. So keep the work wet so theres a nice little puddle around the bit, drill a few moments, take a tiny break, spritz the work  again. Rinse, repeat. It will be far less labor than creating PVC siphons. Cutting and gluing and testing a ton of PVC sounds too time consuming.

These two ideas are brilliant and will save me so much heart ache, Tolstoy21.  Because I know I will be rushing and anxious to do this initially because I want success and I would have botched the job and ruined tank or caused a leaky bulk head.  The diamond bit would have walked across the tank scratching the glass.  Then by the fifth tank I would have discovered your ideas.

Many thanks, Tedrock