Fish room within the attached garage

[lefty o]

On 1/3/2022 at 6:35 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

ORD @gardenmanthanks so much for this. Excellent point about using the actual structure of the garage, that makes so much sense. Foam and drywall attached to the racks would be such a cost saver as well.

My only problem is the electrical outlet for the garage is on the east wall adjacent to the main electrical box and the walls that make the most sense going with your idea it would require some electrical work to get outlets over there - this may not be bad in terms of costings but would also limit the footprint to a shorter width but perhaps longer length. Last time I looked at our electrical box it looked like we could add up to 2 breakers. 

Any thoughts on how to cap/roof it to further prevent heat loss?

late to this discussion, but to cap the room, you can frame out the cap, and again use rigid foam insulation sheets for the roof. they work well at holding in heat. example, yesterday while it was -8 outside i needed to go somewhere, so out to the detached garage i went. hopped in the car, car said it was +19 in the garage. no heat in there, just insulated walls and foam board ceiling.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@lefty oright now on 10-32 degree days my garage never falls below 50-57 depending on the location. It’s 45 out now and the rooms about 61-63. Hopefully with some foam board and insulation and some other chicanery I can keep the space 68-72 would be my goal with a heater in there.
Curious @lefty oits a foam board ceiling do you have corrugated panels above that or a traditional roof?  

[Streetwise]

I am solo atm, but I think a spouse-friendly viewing tank involves multiple species that get along, swim in cool patterns, and don’t bully any tank mates.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Streetwiseagreed! All the species in our bedroom - The Sad Bowl and the tower tank meet these rules but the exception is the Opae ula which meet the cute/endearing requirement which most of the stock do as well and I’d add that rule to your list. One of the goals of the fishroom is to breed out panda corys and they are her favorite species thus far and I bring it up every time we go over the plan! 

[Streetwise]

@Beardedbillygoat1975, I might have replied to the wrong thread, but let’s see what happens.

Edit: I am in the correct thread. It is part tech, part human balance.

[Torrey]

On 1/3/2022 at 5:35 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Any thoughts on how to cap/roof it to further prevent heat loss?

If it's inside the garage, the foam board on top should be sufficient. If you are in eastern (drier) Oregon, I would definitely look at the fire retardant foam board, or sandwich the foam board between fire retardant dry wall, and if you want an easier time with photographs/filming paint the inside black.

 

On 1/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, Streetwise said:

I am solo atm, but I think a spouse-friendly viewing tank involves multiple species that get along, swim in cool patterns, and don’t bully any tank mates.

@Streetwise it's taken 7 years, a pandemic, and way too many deaths, along with paying attention to what makes my spouse perk up, to get my spouse hooked on the fish.

They definitely have their favorite (a Whale of an endler with expressive, large black eyes) and reiterated last night that if I add a school of other fish to the 4' tank/paludarium in their bedroom, I am not to mention any form of birth control activity that the new school of fish may be performing, under **any** circumstances 😅

Our VA partner appreciates the way nature works, and so do all the kids (they are all grown now). My spouse insists on not being forced to acknowledge natural predation. 🤣

[I may have ruined the kids. I taught them how to hold rats by the tail for the snakes to eat, taught them to bow hunt, and insisted they be able to prepare their own carnivore meals if they wanted to eat meat... from raising to butchering. This might explain why I appreciate eatyourpeas' setup so much 💜)

[Patrick_G]

I’ll admit to being a bit confused about this build. You mentioned building a ceiling to the room and I’m wondering why you’re not using the exsisting garage ceiling? I can think of several reasons but I’m curious. 

[lefty o]

On 1/8/2022 at 3:48 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

@lefty oright now on 10-32 degree days my garage never falls below 50-57 depending on the location. It’s 45 out now and the rooms about 61-63. Hopefully with some foam board and insulation and some other chicanery I can keep the space 68-72 would be my goal with a heater in there.
Curious @lefty oits a foam board ceiling do you have corrugated panels above that or a traditional roof?  

in my garage, its a conventional gabled roof, so i glued and screwed the foam boards to the undersides of the rafter joists. your insulated ceiling has to be below the soffit vents if you have them, or it wouldnt do any good.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Torreywhile there are wildfires every year in our area we’re not close to the forest or areas with a lot of brush. Electrical fires would be more of an issue. But @Patrick_Gthat’s a great point about just using the existing ceiling we’d just always had this idea that we’d create a separate room within the room not sure why we were that blind but at least we're in the planning stages. We know we’ll have to tear it down completely before we sell as we won’t permit it. But the utility sink and more garage outlets would be helpful for whomever owns the house. 
We keep moving furniture and other items that were in the garage and clearing space to work on the project. Hopefully I’ll make another run or 2 to the storage over the next few days. From there it’ll be adjusting shelve heights as the intermediate step is to move all the fish and tanks to the new shelves. I think I’ll set them up on the middle shelving unit as there’s a good chance the end units may need to be adjusted. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Watching the Greg Sage videos again on his diy water change system.  I’m fairly certain that a Rainbird based system is not within our grasp financially in 2022. In looking at Greg’s videos it’s all PVC based. Prices for PVC may have gone up but not that much. I’m excited to eventually go forward and start stockpiling the pvc and making the diy pieces and parts that are part of this design. 
If you find a cool system that’s not as costly as a Rainbird setup I’m all ears. 

[gardenman]

A cheap and easy DIY water change system can be made from a drip irrigation system designed for use in a garden. (Assuming you don't need to pretreat your water.) I installed a cheap ($20) drip system to water my hanging baskets and railing planters on my front porch. It's been in use for a couple of years and works well. You can adjust the drip from very, very slow to very fast by just adjusting the emitter. Wish.com sells a lot of options at very low prices. I bought mine through Amazon. I considered rigging up a nonstop drip system for my tanks but disposing of the excess water is an issue. I'd thought I'd just dump it into my sump pump in the basement, but then I did the math and realized that it would be tens of thousands of gallons of water each year. A gallon an hour drip rate 24 hours a day on four tanks is over 35,000 gallons of water a year. That's kind of a lot. 

[Patrick_G]

I haven’t seen the Greg Sage system, but I can see how a system with lots of multiple zone WiFi valves would cost a ton. A cheaper option would be a continuous drip with manual valves or maybe just one WiFi valve. 

[Torrey]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:23 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Prices for PVC may have gone up but not that much. I’m excited to eventually go forward and start stockpiling the pvc and making the diy pieces and parts that are part of this design. 

Here, it's currently cheaper to buy PVC to frame fences & folding dividers, than it is to buy wood.

On 1/9/2022 at 12:00 PM, lefty o said:

in my garage, its a conventional gabled roof, so i glued and screwed the foam boards to the undersides of the rafter joists. your insulated ceiling has to be below the soffit vents if you have them, or it wouldnt do any good

This is key. It's much easier and cost effective to build an insulating cover for your fish room @Beardedbillygoat1975 than to use the garage roof.

To keep the room cooler in the summer, you can either install fans to pull the heat out or simply add an exhaust tube that connects to an existing exhaust during the summer to passively cool your fish room.

On 1/10/2022 at 6:50 AM, gardenman said:

A cheap and easy DIY water change system can be made from a drip irrigation system designed for use in a garden. (Assuming you don't need to pretreat your water.) I installed a cheap ($20) drip system to water my hanging baskets and railing planters on my front porch. It's been in use for a couple of years and works well. You can adjust the drip from very, very slow to very fast by just adjusting the emitter. Wish.com sells a lot of options at very low prices. I bought mine through Amazon. I considered rigging up a nonstop drip system for my tanks but disposing of the excess water is an issue. I'd thought I'd just dump it into my sump pump in the basement, but then I did the math and realized that it would be tens of thousands of gallons of water each year. A gallon an hour drip rate 24 hours a day on four tanks is over 35,000 gallons of water a year. That's kind of a lot. 

If you look at the drip systems attached to rain barrels, you can find some inexpensive timed systems, and can also control the flow. That would be a much less expensive automatic water change system that could move pretreated water (or rain water for a blackwater system) out of a rain barrel and into the tanks. Could probably find a cheaper and more reliable hot water heater type option (inline on demand, maybe?) to ensure water is the correct temp going into the tanks.

Now, my building brain is fully engaged and interested in various options for how to do an auto water change as inexpensively as possible. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Those are some good ideas @Torreyespecially like the idea of using a rain barrel type system. If putting in a drain is just too expensive one idea we have is to actually set up a rain barrel type system to pump The fish waste water to a reservoir in the backyard to then drip on the plants and trees in the yard! 

@gardenmanwaste of water is an important thing to think about along with the $$ cost of running the system over the long term. Drip lines would definitely limit the impact. Was looking at @Coryold video on his last fish room using his cinder block construction and he was using drip controllers on the end of his lines. 

@Patrick_Gi think peoples point that a simple drip system with a single controller may be doable financially is appealing. If that could take care of all 3 racks how cool would that be? I’m still working on the budget with my wife. 

Greg Sage’s system it’s basically he sets up the pipes in a certain way that with a little draw (he sucks on the end) creates a siphon then closes a valve. When he wants to do a water change he just opens the valve and draws water out using the siphon just like other systems he’s got them draining to a drain. He then opens the intake valve as well at the same time and runs it for a period of time. 

I see Marks Fish Tanks use these leading To another idea I had just create a loop with a reservoir on the very top rack say a 150 qt 37.5 g cooler with me using the drain off the cooler for 6 drip lines being fed into each one of the tanks. I could put a 50 g trash barrel in the corner with a similar level controller and one inside the cooler. All you’d have to do is open the valves coming off the bulkheads and as water leaves these would fill and use the bulk heads to level off the water. Not auto water change but also a lot better than pythons. 

 

 

[Patrick_G]

I just watched Greg Sage’s video on his system. He does a good job explaining everthing. My 75 is right next to a sink, and I haven’t drilled it because I was never sure what type of glass the back panel is. Now I’m thinking I might set up a Greg Sage style system. It’s not a necessity but it might be fun to try. 

[Torrey]

On 1/11/2022 at 2:05 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Not auto water change but also a lot better than pythons. 

You might want to look into a couple of pond pumps, then.

If you need to treat water and therefore need a cistern/watertank to add the dechlorinator to when you fill it (save money by buying the SeaChem Prime for ponds), you can still use a small inline heater to maintain temp, and use a pond pump to run the line pumping water to your tanks.

To remove water, I am sure there's a way to run multiple lines to an inline pump to pump water to your outside water tank to use in the garden. 

Just be sure to put a coarse sponge over the ends so shrimp and fry don't go for an unwanted ride.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Torreyironically i was pricing out pond pumps today! I went to Lowes and then compared prices online. Also went to the LFS and he’s got all the bulkheads and he has pond pumps but they’re a bit over priced. Will try to buy what I can that’s reasonable.
 

While at the LFS I bought some valisineria and some lucky bamboo so I threw those in a couple tanks. Going natural for nitrate reduction. Didn’t fall in love with any of the fish. Saw the last pair of my blue Hawaiian Moscows at the shop and all the Neocaridina were gone. 
 

@Patrick_Gdrilling tanks scares the 💩out of me. Greg Sage’s method gets more and more interesting.

[lefty o]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:07 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

@Torreyironically i was pricing out pond pumps today! I went to Lowes and then compared prices online. Also went to the LFS and he’s got all the bulkheads and he has pond pumps but they’re a bit over priced. Will try to buy what I can that’s reasonable.
 

While at the LFS I bought some valisineria and some lucky bamboo so I threw those in a couple tanks. Going natural for nitrate reduction. Didn’t fall in love with any of the fish. Saw the last pair of my blue Hawaiian Moscows at the shop and all the Neocaridina were gone. 
 

@Patrick_Gdrilling tanks scares the 💩out of me. Greg Sage’s method gets more and more interesting.

be aware bamboo does not last submerged indefinately. back when ive tried it, 9 months to a year was about all it lasted before it rotted.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

ORD @lefty o, appreciate the advice on the bamboo! Put them in the HOBs. Figure I’m usually in there rinsing sponges on a fairly regular basis to keep track of them. 

[tolstoy21]

On 1/7/2022 at 5:47 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

In regards to the automated water change system - I see that going a couple of ways. I could be as simple as the system Mark’s Shrimps has or as complicated as Randy has or something like what Fishboy has. It’ll all depend on our taxes most likely.

Auto water change doesn't need to be that costly. Unless you have complicated schedules, you could wire up a single solenoid and plug it into a inexpensive outlet timer.  I think I paid around $30 for the solenoid below. 

To deal with the waste water, have it drain into a tote with a utility sump-pump that pumps the water into your utility sink when the tote is full. 

If you want to manage how much goes into each tank, use different irrigation drip emitters. They come rated at various gallons per hour and cost pennies each.

This is not as precise as using a rain-bird with multiple zones and schedules, but it works if your needs aren't overly complex. 

Also, Pex and RO tubing are waaaaaay easier to work with than rigid PVC.

Below is my 'cistern'. I stage water here for various uses (like sudden bulk water changes), and pump it to my tanks with a Sicce Ultra Zero utility pump attached to a python hook.

Admittedly, I only have a fish 'wall' with about 20 aquariums. But it's not hard to scale this setup.

None of this is the most neat and attractive setup, but it works well, and when i got into breeding fish, I didn't want to start out of the gate by dropping a lot of money on equipment and materials in case I discovered it wasn't for me.

Edited January 12, 2022 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:50 AM, gardenman said:

A cheap and easy DIY water change system can be made from a drip irrigation system designed for use in a garden. (Assuming you don't need to pretreat your water.) I installed a cheap ($20) drip system to water my hanging baskets and railing planters on my front porch. It's been in use for a couple of years and works well.

If you try this approach, use RO tubing and john guest fittings for the water lines. The drip emitters fit nicely into these.

The problem with the lines and tubing rated for gardening is that they are very leaky (not a problem in a garden!). They are also  much much more likely to pop off if not seated properly and flood your space than RO tubing is.  

How do I know this? Don't ask!

But the concept is the same if you use RO tubing with drip emitters. Also, make sure you have a pressure/ flow restrictor inline to make sure to not put too much pressure on the emitters.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@tolstoy21this will essentially be a fish wall in my garage but hopefully will just have 4 walls around it. Not very different at all. On my last trip to lowes I saw a similar solenoid so this feels very accessible. In all honesty as I was going through the permutations ie the like 3 or 4 potential types of potential builds I kept coming back to something similar to your system. Thanks for taking the time to review it with me. 
 

As I walked around Lowes the irrigation section was so appealing because it was a few bucks cheaper but I see your point about the nature of their uses and one relies on being water tight while the other is pretty hapoy with some leaking.

One thought we’ve had is to get an IBC tote tank and pump the waste water into there and use that for the garden. The back wall of the garage goes right to the backyard. 

[tolstoy21]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:43 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

As I walked around Lowes the irrigation section was so appealing because it was a few bucks cheaper but I see your point about the nature of their uses and one relies on being water tight while the other is pretty hapoy with some leaking.

The RO tubing and fittings are much less expensive on Amazon than places like Lowes and Home Depot. The big box hardware stores charge waaaaay too much per fitting.

Wiring that specific solinoid  was super simple. The two wires just needed to be put into a replacement lamp plug that clamped on and screwed shut. No master electrical certification needed!

Edited January 18, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Guppysnail]

Pond tubing is an option. I used it for my pumps. I got it 1/4 inch to small. Hit the end with a hair dryer so it stretched when it cooled around the male end connectors it sort of shrink wrapped. Even my strong hubby could not pull it off. It would need to be cut. Being made of thick rubber it doesn’t leak. 

[Jimmy]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:36 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

My wife presented me with the idea of creating a fish room within our attached garage. I am a lucky guy.

I’ve had my fishwall in our garage since the summer of ‘21 with breeding projects starting in spring ‘21 on a single smaller rack. Presently my setup has my Blue Hawaiian Moscow’s, blue dream neos, plant and fish qt tanks, a breeding colony of panda guppies, F. Gardneri p82s. Future plans include a group of green dragon ancistrus, ataeniobious toweri a goodied, and to expand my breeding of livebearers to include my colony of teacup coral/fireball platys and my more tanks for the BH Moscows and my line of longfin super red calico BNs. 

My other thought process on this build is that I need to start thinking about making these racks auto-water changing racks. I’m thinking it will be 2 Costco racks on either side with a small set of racks for smaller tanks and supplies. I’ll also want to do a loop for the linear piston pump as well. 

Well this is exciting. I’ll start updating here regularly and once it’s more than plans I’ll start a build journal. 

You might start a build thread. Check mine out in my signature