Failed cycle

[Kyra Burnside]

Any information about this will be helpful

I've had this 40gal aquatlantis tank running for a month and a half. Originally I had 5 gold barbs in it. They were doing fine. They are currently in my other tank. I'm trying to cycle this tank as I'm hoping to get an axolotl fairly soon. I've asked breeders as to what they would do to cycle the tank. I was told to take the fish out and dose in ammonia and max dose seachem stability everyday. I've been doing this for the past week. Supposedly this process should be the quickest to cycling the tank for an axolotl. But before doing this I was treating it with stability as stated on the bottle. I've never seen this tank show any readings for nitrite or nitrate. Currently I have 2ppm of ammonia and have not seen anything else. 

I guess I'm asking for help on cycling this tank. I know it can take up to 3+ months. I'm just wondering what would be the best solution? This tank is running a sponge filter. It has 3 lucky bamboos. 2 Java ferns. I've used Fritz Zyme 7 and seachem flourish for the plants. Plants are doing fine as well. I'm not sure what else to mention. Hopefully this helps diagnose the problem a little. Thank you 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’d say when you pulled the barbs if you didn’t immediately dose an ammonia source - say if you went 3 to 7 days without an ammonia source - you could have broken the cycle. 
Axolotl’s are heavy waste producers so I think getting a good colony of beneficial bacteria is important. 
If you have another tank going you have a source of cycling on hand. I’d take some substrate and media from your other tank and put them in the new tank. I’d use Fritz Zyme when you add in the Axolotl. I’d have test strips or a test kit on hand and I’d check daily after you add you mr Axolotl. 
Id add more plants Java Ferns are slow growers and not great at pulling waste from the water column. Faster growers like pogostemon, wisteria, guppy grass and hornwort are a better choice in the beginning and keep the Java ferns around for the long term. 
George Farmer advocates for 50% daily for the first week, 50% 3 x a week for the second, and 50% 2 x a week for the 3rd and 25-50% the 4th week depending on stock.
I think something like this could along with some dosing of Fritz Zyme with those water changes could build up BB quicker than your 3 month time frame. 

[Kyra Burnside]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:32 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I’d say when you pulled the barbs if you didn’t immediately dose an ammonia source - say if you went 3 to 7 days without an ammonia source - you could have broken the cycle. 
Axolotl’s are heavy waste producers so I think getting a good colony of beneficial bacteria is important. 
If you have another tank going you have a source of cycling on hand. I’d take some substrate and media from your other tank and put them in the new tank. I’d use Fritz Zyme when you add in the Axolotl. I’d have test strips or a test kit on hand and I’d check daily after you add you mr Axolotl. 
Id add more plants Java Ferns are slow growers and not great at pulling waste from the water column. Faster growers like pogostemon, wisteria, guppy grass and hornwort are a better choice in the beginning and keep the Java ferns around for the long term. 
George Farmer advocates for 50% daily for the first week, 50% 3 x a week for the second, and 50% 2 x a week for the 3rd and 25-50% the 4th week depending on stock.
I think something like this could along with some dosing of Fritz Zyme with those water changes could build up BB quicker than your 3 month time frame. 

I appreciate your help, truly. Okay let's pretend for a minute. Say I don't have any other tanks. No fish. I'm starting from square one. What would be your first thing to do to start cycling a tank? Given that I have a sponge filter and 6 plants. What would you do. 

[HH Morant]

I would suggest you read the aquariumscience.org articles regarding cycling.

[Kyra Burnside]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:12 PM, HH Morant said:

I would suggest you read the aquariumscience.org articles regarding cycling.

This is very helpful. Thank you 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I would use 1 of 2 strategies.
 

1- a fishless cycle - feeding some fish food or ammonia source until you get nitrite and then nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite is gone and only nitrate remains. Then I add in a small number of fish. If I had Fritzyme or Turbostart available I’d use either of those as well. 
 

2nd strategy is fish in deciding on a hardy species, cycling with plants for a couple week’s until I get nitrite and nitrate and minimal if not zero ammonia, water change and add in Fritzyme 7 and then drop the fish in. I then pretty much follow George Farmer’s strategy of water changes daily for a week, every other day for a week and then 2 x a week or based on readings from my test kit. I usually keep adding the Fritzyme with most water changes in the first couple weeks. 

I also try to buy some hard scape out of my local fish stores tank- like wood with anubias on it - and that will also speed things up. I’ve also bought sponge filters and scoops of substrate from their tanks. 

[Kyra Burnside]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:58 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I would use 1 of 2 strategies.
 

1- a fishless cycle - feeding some fish food or ammonia source until you get nitrite and then nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite is gone and only nitrate remains. Then I add in a small number of fish. If I had Fritzyme or Turbostart available I’d use either of those as well. 
 

2nd strategy is fish in deciding on a hardy species, cycling with plants for a couple week’s until I get nitrite and nitrate and minimal if not zero ammonia, water change and add in Fritzyme 7 and then drop the fish in. I then pretty much follow George Farmer’s strategy of water changes daily for a week, every other day for a week and then 2 x a week or based on readings from my test kit. I usually keep adding the Fritzyme with most water changes in the first couple weeks. 

I also try to buy some hard scape out of my local fish stores tank- like wood with anubias on it - and that will also speed things up. I’ve also bought sponge filters and scoops of substrate from their tanks. 

Ah yeah that's fair. I guess I'm just a little frustrated because my other tank is only 1 week older than this one. And it's already cycled. I couldn't tell you what I did to get it like that because quite honestly it felt like I was running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Then I went and got my water tested at a local shop and they told me it was good for fish. I had no plants. And I was ghost feeding it. And obviously I also put the fritz zyme 7 into it. It's been a process. But thank you very much for this information. I think I know what I need to do. I appreciate your help. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Kyra Burnsidewhy it works in one setup and not another that’s a whole other thread. It’ll work out, not always on our timeline but it will be fine. Let us know how it goes and how we can help!

[Kyra Burnside]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 yeah that's fair.  Thanks for your help again. I will let you know what happens in a couple weeks lol

[Biotope Biologist]

Also @dasaltemelosguy has a thread on lucky bamboo and their effectiveness at pulling waste from the water column. Spoilers: they are quite effective! I have nothing else to add as between the above posters and the below attached thread you should have no issues with your new axolotl friends. Welcome to the forums, I can't wait to see what becomes of your tanks. Be sure to start journals to show them off for us 🙂

 

I will link that thread here:

 

[Streetwise]

Plants and wood always help. Then add more plants.

[ColBud]

The water change schedule that George Farmer recommends is not for “cycling” purposes but to limit algae and from excess nutrients that leach from the aqua soils that are used in aqua scapes. 
It might be helpful to watch some of the videos Cory has Such as this. Good luck it all take more time then we think it will or want it to.

[Patrick_G]

I think you’re on the right track. @Beardedbillygoat1975has some good advice, especially about cycling with plants. I’d get as many as you can afford. Not only will they use Ammonia and Nitrite but they bring good bacterial into the tank.