New 20 gallon high, laser cory breeder?

[Odd Duck]

So I’ve been planning to set up a 20 gallon high in place of my 12 gallon QT tank once the most recent inhabitants were moved to the 100 G.  That happened today!  And doing it kicked my booty!  Why does it take soooo much work to just set up a tank?  Well, I might tend to end up on side quests.  🤷🏻‍♀️

First, I moved the 7 Kubotais and 10 Kuhli loaches that finished their QT.  It takes a while to catch Kuhli loaches, especially little baby ones - soooo fast and skinny they could duck past the corners of even my best net.  It’s a completely empty 12 gallon tank, for crying out loud!  Well, empty after I removed all the things in prep for catching.  Didn’t even try to catch anything until it was empty.  Finally caught and released all into the wild wood.  Haul hood to sink for later cleaning, haul tank outside for later cleaning.

Then clean off desk from a couple years of spilled water (Formica top, thankfully).  Then drag out the 20 high I had, realize it was way too clouded and scratched to be worth setting up.  🤦🏻‍♀️ Bought a new one, washed, leak tested, emptied, dried outside of tank, covered back with black vinyl, set into place, crud! I won’t be able to get to the powerstrip, get hubby to pick up super duper dual lock Velcro since he’s already out running errands (and another bag of pool sand, I’ll get to this in a minute), attach powerstrip to wall, plug in, unplug other now useless powerstrip that is now blocked by tanks, line up the front of tank with the front of the 29 G, added sand while waiting for mega Velcro to arrive, dang it, not quite enough sand, call hubby again and add sand to the list (50 lbs is heavy!), wash sand, add more to tank, take black sand out of plantless containers, switch to pool sand, rinse new filter, cut sponge to pack filter chamber, add prefilter (thank you ACO), install filter, attempt to pull floating plants out of 46 G plant holding tank, net giant wads of nerm glitter, grab plants, rinse nerm glitter off plants and arms, clean bad leaves and roots off plants (swords and Vals really don’t like to float this long), and WOW that’s a lot of ramshorn eggs, put plants in freshly layered pots, add to tank, fill tank with water, add lid, add light, start filter.  Whew!

Wait, not enough plants, need to get more out of 46 G anyway since that’s going to get a dry start (soon?) and those plants will have to go somewhere while that happens, net a little more nerm glitter (more, really?), rinse the nerm glitter off plants (how did my 46 G get so much glitter anyway?), reglue Anubias to rock (why do they jump off so easily?), reglue Java fern (again, why does ONE epiphyte always jump off?), tidy up remainder of plants in tank (might as well, I’m in here anyway), add more plants to tank, now very crowded but all are easily movable/removable, remind myself to look for another fish swap meet to sell excess plants, top off the last little bit of water, step back, and now . . . . . . . . . . . Patience!

Makes me tired again just thinking about it all while sitting in my easy chair with my aching old body!  Did I mention I also washed the shoe cleaning mat from the back patio while I had the hose out, and watered the outside potted plants?  And washed a smaller filter to replace one on a 10 G that just doesn’t reliably restart.  It’s the first one I work on and still always the last one to restart.  Fiddling, jiggling, bouncing, more jiggling, adjusting, more bouncing, lifting the whole intake with impeller attached (but you don’t dare lift too high or it comes out of the slot 🤦🏻‍♀️), more fiddling and jiggling and bouncing, pouring in more water again, again, and again, finally starts.  I’m over it, here comes your in-the-tank-motor HOB now, except the tank has a bit too much hair algae, so it’ll have to wait until I can do a proper cleanup tomorrow on that tank, so only a partial side quest and the new filter is ready to go into place.

Also scraped glass on 5 tanks today, caught more jade shrimp and transferred to 14 G cube (moved most yesterday), switched out filter floss on 3 filters to catch fine mulm spewed by 2 HOB’s after restart 🤦🏻‍♀️ (don’t wonder why I’m gradually switching to a different style of filter) and the surface skimmer that’s trying and failing to collect all the Wolffia in my worst Wolffia tank, scooped more nerm glitter out of the pea puffer grow out tank (when did that get in there anyway?), and started on a plan to rearrange the back bedroom bookshelves to consolidate all the bookshelves in that bedroom so I can consolidate all the small fish tanks into a fish room (Offish) eventually.  No wonder I’m tired and achy tonight!

Back to the 20 H, the goal as the title suggests, is for it to become an orange laser cory breeding tank and use the 2 currently shrimp tanks as cory grow out tanks.  The jades are getting moved now, catching as I see them, and I’ll give any shrimplets time to grow enough to be able to catch them (takes about 2-4 weeks).  The blue dreams will get moved as soon as I can get the laser cory tank reset for shrimp after the cories are in the 20 H.  The bronze cory grow out tank will become emerald shrimp (more consistent and intensely green than jades without being too dark and fewer random blue or faded), the pea puffer grow out will be golden backs, and the plant and snail tank will be tangerines.  So all shrimp will get moved up a row to standing eye level since they’re mostly on the bottom of the tank, and fish grow outs will be the middle row at seated eye level so I can sit down and monitor fish behavior better.  The black slate stacks are going to eventually get epoxied together and will go in this tank when some of the plants come out.  The laser cories got their last deworming today.  Now I just need to give the filter a bit of “squeezins” from a seasoned tank

If you’re still with me, thanks for reading this far!  I really should post earlier in the day instead of rambling along when it’s late and I’m tired!

Pic 1 is cleaned, some sand added, in position.

Pic 2 is with the container plants in place.

Pic 3 shows the slate stacks that will eventually go in the tank (+/- the Mopani on the far right).

Pic 4 is after adding all the assorted Java ferns, some are fine, some are sad.  They were getting shaded by too many floating plants.  Also a couple Anubias in there.

I’ll post a (hopefully less long-winded) update after the cories get transferred once parameters are stable.

 

Yes, that’s too many mystery snails.  Some will get sold to my lfs tomorrow.

Those all came out of the 12 G!

Edited December 4, 2021 by Odd Duck
Typos

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

The mystery snails won’t eat the cory eggs. IMO think it’ll work. I’d put in some leaf liter but otherwise I think you’re ready to go. I’ve had good luck with flow and my panda corys. They swim in the current created by the AC 70 I have on their setup. How’s the output from that HOB you placed on there?
 

Can’t wait to see the fish in there! 

[Atitagain]

You have every right to be tired after all that! The rambling make sense too. 🤣🤣 Really tho it sounds great, the tank looks good too. Corys are amazing  and the lasers will fun to breed I’m sure.

Aren’t side quest the worst “might as well take care of that while I’m here 🤪”

[Odd Duck]

 

On 11/13/2021 at 3:08 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

The mystery snails won’t eat the cory eggs. IMO think it’ll work. I’d put in some leaf liter but otherwise I think you’re ready to go. I’ve had good luck with flow and my panda corys. They swim in the current created by the AC 70 I have on their setup. How’s the output from that HOB you placed on there?
 

Can’t wait to see the fish in there! 

I can’t wait to see their reaction to the tank!

Oh, I know the mysteries are safe enough, it’s just more bioload than I want in the tank overall.  They’ll stay for a while to help it cycle faster, then the smaller ones will get sold.  I’ve been breeding bronze cories already despite their egg and fry eating selves.  I’ve pulled 7 fry out of the 100 gallon (love that fish trap, just can’t fall asleep and leave it in the tank overnight) and I had already sold about 25 fry locally and to my lfs.  That’s without pulling eggs or doing anything other than make sure they had food, cover, and clean water.

I intend to pull eggs on the lasers, but I’ll be putting the eggs directly into grow out tanks at least to start.  I might decide on breeder boxes down the road depending on just how productive they become.

The C. aeneus are super productive as far as eggs go, I hope to find out how productive the lasers can be since those could make me $15-20.00 each sold local, vs $3.00 each for bronzes.  Even the lfs will probably give me at least $5-6.00 each, or maybe more, for the lasers vs the $1.00 they give me for bronzes.

On 11/13/2021 at 7:52 AM, Atitagain said:

You have every right to be tired after all that! The rambling make sense too. 🤣🤣 Really tho it sounds great, the tank looks good too. Corys are amazing  and the lasers will fun to breed I’m sure.

Aren’t side quest the worst “might as well take care of that while I’m here 🤪”

Thanks, I like it somewhere between just the dishes vs completely crowded with epiphytes, too.  I hope to see some of the Javas after they’ve had time to perk up after being far too shaded for too long.

I’m so much about side quests I sometimes don’t get my original mission done!  🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ Even worse if I sit down to read up on something (Hello, rabbit 🐇).

I’m looking forward to see how the lasers react to getting twice the space with way more plants.  It shouldn’t take much time to cycle since I’m going to add “squeezins” today.  I just ran out of ambition and energy yesterday.  Did I mention I hosed down the whole patio yesterday?  😝 😂 🤣 Plus other side quests (shall we call them SQ from here forward?  😂) but I don’t want to ramble on again!  😊 

[Griznatch]

Wow, you've been busy. The work paid off, tank is looking really good! Also, thanks for the chuckle.. nerm glitter 🙂

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:24 AM, Griznatch said:

Wow, you've been busy. The work paid off, tank is looking really good! Also, thanks for the chuckle.. nerm glitter 🙂

Thank you, I’m liking it.

The glitter is EVERYWHERE in the 46 and I know it just started fairly recently.  I’m sure it came in with the last batch of plants and I rinsed the bejeebers out of them, swished and swirled like mad, bleach dipped, and rinsed and swirled some more!  They came from a place where I’ve gotten the glitter previously so I’m extra careful with plants from them.  Their plants are nearly always good quality and they have great prices, sooo . . . .  Only once in a while do I find the glitter on their plants.  Usually I keep ahead of it and eradicate it quickly, but I’ve only been popping in an algae wafer to that tank since there’s no fish, only plants and snails.

I did spot a pond snail in there at some point yesterday but my hands were full of plants and it got away before I could snatch it out and put it in the puffer tank.  I’m only surprised it’s taken this long to get a pond snail!  I’ll find it (them?) today, hopefully, and get some pond snails built up in the 29 G, too.  It might even reach the point where I can pull the horned nerites out and put them elsewhere.  Might not have to feed anything but make sure the snails are fed!  😝 Not really - little greedy guts, those puffers!

That 46 G bow front tank is my next major project, but I have to tackle some minor projects first, then that one.  It’s going to be an angelfish tank and I FINALLY found just the right wood piece the other day, to go with the wood pieces I already have.  All are soaked already, I just need to find places to put the glittered plants where I can make sure I clear the glitter completely.  Then clear out snails, old substrate, new substrate (washing more sand, this time black 🤦🏻‍♀️), then make moss paste and cover the tank with plastic wrap for the dry start.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Odd Duck
Fix pond vs bladder snails. I’ve had bladders, pond snails are new to me.

[Odd Duck]

Just for funzies, here’s a pic of the 46 G bow front today after more glitter sweeping and planting the swords in pots at least enough to keep them stable and growth oriented properly.  This will be my before.

Check out the roots in the foam piece holding in and hiding the ceramic rings in the sponge caddy in the top left, far back corner.  That’s what I used to hold the AR ‘Mini’ that’s ACTUALLY GROWING!  Only a small section of it survived, but I’ll take it!  It already looks better than any other AR I’ve tried to grow so far.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Odd Duck
Add pic, duh. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

[Torrey]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:48 PM, Odd Duck said:

Just for funzies, here’s a pic of the 46 G bow front today after more glitter sweeping and planting the swords in pots at least enough to keep them stable and growth oriented properly.  This will be my before.

Check out the roots in the foam piece holding in and hiding the ceramic rings in the sponge caddy in the top left, far back corner.  That’s what I used to hold the AR ‘Mini’ that’s ACTUALLY GROWING!  Only a small section of it survived, but I’ll take it!  It already looks better than any other AR I’ve tried to grow so far.

<add pic>

So glad that's not just me😅

 

Looks amazing!

I'm tired just reading it, so I can imagine how tired and sore you might be. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:04 PM, Torrey said:

<add pic>

So glad that's not just me😅

 

Looks amazing!

I'm tired just reading it, so I can imagine how tired and sore you might be. 

I swear I proofread twice before posting most stuff and yet I still end up editing for some typo somewhere!  Or adding the pic, or adding another pic.  😆 

I took it a little easier today since last night was rough even with ibuprofen.  Us old folks call that “Vitamin I”.  That’s an “i”, not an “L”. 😃 

[eatyourpeas]

I love the tank, the story, and I am exhausted without lifting a finger!

It looks amazing! 😍

[eatyourpeas]

As my day was a bit strange, it was also inspired by lots of emails and conversations. So, I want to share:

Job Posting

Aquarium NG Specialist Security Officer (FT).

Candidates must meet the following qualifications:

- Ensures premises and inhabitants are Nerm Glitter free at all times.
- Inspects and cleans access points.
- Obtains help by screaming when spotting an offender.
- Prevents losses and damage by terminating offending NG.
- Gives LFS employee "the look" when they offer NG for free in your fish bag.
- Constantly researching removal methods.

Salary: undefined. This job can be either easy or extremely challenging, therefore there is no pay scale that applies.

 

[Odd Duck]

Oh, I almost forgot to post a plant list!  Left to right in the pic with only the potted plants:

1. Left front is a tiny, baby Nymphea lotus ‘Zenkeri’ (Red Tiger Lotus AKA Red Dwarf Lily) offspring of my big one in the 100G.

2. Back left is Echinodorus bleheri (Amazon sword)

3. Cryptocoryne usteriana from TC.  Already getting big!  These should end up very tall.  I’ll have to start separating soon.

4. Echinodorus horemanii’Red’ that managed to survive an overheated during shipping incident.

5. Back right is 3 pots of Vallisneria americana (Jungle Val).  2 very puny, nearly melted plants per little pot.  This is a starting place and they will outgrow these little pots rapidly if they do well.  These may eventually get moved into pots in the 75 if the Jacks keep roughing up the ones in there.

6. Right front is a single Echinodorus ‘Aflame’.  I’ve got these in 4 different tanks now and none have impressed me with their growth.  😔 We’ll see what this one does!

Moving to the filled in picture:

7. Left front on a red lava rock is Anubias minima.

8. Far back left is Leptochilus pteropus ‘Windelov’ (Lace Java Fern).

9. Another Java fern variety, not sure which but may be “original” Java fern, on cholla wood.

10. Center, big one on red lava rock is Anubias hastifolia.

11. Multiple Lace Java Fern on a cholla wood stub (yes, I left the brown fronds on purpose because there are baby plantlets developing).

12. Another Java Fern on horizontal cholla wood.

13. Right front another clump of Java Fern on horizontal cholla piece.

14. Directly behind 13 is another stub of cholla with more Java ‘Windelov’.

I may have to move the recently potted ones temporarily.  Cories are notorious for uprooting plants that don’t yet have established root systems.  We’ll see how soon the tank is ready and if they bother the plants that are in the pots.  If I have enough scuds and biofilm in the sand by then, they may not bother them.

 

 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:25 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I love the tank, the story, and I am exhausted without lifting a finger!

It looks amazing! 😍

Thank you and it exhausts me to read it!  I can’t believe so many people made it all the way through!

Please, nobody burst my bubble by telling me you just skimmed it!  😆 

On 11/13/2021 at 6:30 PM, eatyourpeas said:

As my day was a bit strange, it was also inspired by lots of emails and conversations. So, I want to share:

Job Posting

Aquarium NG Specialist Security Officer (FT).

Candidates must meet the following qualifications:

- Ensures premises and inhabitants are Nerm Glitter free at all times.
- Inspects and cleans access points.
- Obtains help by screaming when spotting an offender.
- Prevents losses and damage by terminating offending NG.
- Gives LFS employee "the look" when they offer NG for free in your fish bag.
- Constantly researching removal methods.

Salary: undefined. This job can be either easy or extremely challenging, therefore there is no pay scale that applies.

 

“Extremely challenging” is an understatement!  Dratted glitter!  Spent another 30 minutes today on the 46 and I KNOW there’s no WAY I got it all.  Even though I can’t see any right now, there will be some sneaking around in there somewhere!  But I also know that tank is my next big project.  I already have the HOB filter running on it, sponge filter in it, and have the sand, wood, and plants for it, at least!  😆 I am in the market for the perfect moss, however.  I’m getting cold feet about adding that much Christmas moss to the tank, knowing that I sometimes get lazy with upkeep (noticing a theme, here?  😃).

Edited November 14, 2021 by Odd Duck

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I guess this is one time small tanks are a blessing. I removed duckweed once when I figured out my Betta at the time hated it. After one good clean up and a couple spot cleanings I was duckweed free. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:10 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I guess this is one time small tanks are a blessing. I removed duckweed once when I figured out my Betta at the time hated it. After one good clean up and a couple spot cleanings I was duckweed free. 

The biggest problem with the bow front is the stupid curved front glass piece of the lid.  It’s very narrow at the outside edges and it’s very awkward to try to reach the back upper corners, especially the right side.  The lid is 5 3/4” in the center but only 2 1/4” at the ends.  The opening is even less when you account for the lip of the trim where the glass sits.

I don’t have a plastic strip on the back yet until I figure out how I’m attaching the wood (plus no fish, yet).  I’m sure I was a sight sliding over to the end and swishing my fingers around in the back to create a wave to move the NG out of the corners, then back to the front swirling the net, then swishing, then swirling, then swishing, . . . . . . Then trying to reach farther under the glass with the net (remember, only 2.25” at the ends), swishing, swirling, extra net twirling, swishing, swirling, extra twirling, . . . . .  🤣 🤣 🤣 

 It’s pretty safe to assume it’s unlikely I’ll buy another bow front anything.  It’s pretty, but kinda stupid.  Before we got it, the previous owner took out the center brace.  I can’t EVEN imagine trying to work in this tank with the center brace intact!  It’s enough of a pain with it gone.  With it in the way?  I didn’t wonder for very long why he took it out.  One cleaning session and I was over the skinny ends and access struggle.

When I get to the redo, you can bet the whole top is coming off for a deep clean, including substrate removal.  That should forever banish the NG, at least from this tank.  Then installing wood (that’s still percolating through my little brain on the “how to do”).  But it will be GORGEOUS and all worth it when I’m done!  Just wait till you see it!  Don’t hold your breath on the timing, though.  😆  I got lots to do before that happens!

Edited November 14, 2021 by Odd Duck

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I am positive I will love it. It helps *I* don't have to do any of the work but that's beside the point. Some things are just a bit more gratifying because of the time involved in getting it there. I have no doubt in your abilities. 

...also I can see where bow fronts are a pain. My flex9 has odd angles. Thankfully it's small. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:41 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I am positive I will love it. It helps *I* don't have to do any of the work but that's beside the point. Some things are just a bit more gratifying because of the time involved in getting it there. I have no doubt in your abilities. 

Yes, there is the, “Thank you for making something beautiful for me to look at” aspect and then there’s the, “LOOK WHAT I HAVE CREATED” thing!  🤣  I like both, but the second is nearly always more satisfying.  No, I’ve never said it out loud after finishing.  😂 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hahah nope, it takes a little bit to say, well, that was worth it. Unless it's sarcastic. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/13/2021 at 7:45 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Hahah nope, it takes a little bit to say, well, that was worth it. Unless it's sarcastic. 

I’ve been ORD since this morning, but agree to this statement.  😆 

[Odd Duck]

Apparently I have so many plants packed in the 20 high that there essentially was only a whisper of ammonia and nitrite spikes and nitrates are still barely registering.  I’ve been daily feeding well over a dozen mystery snails in there, 6 big ones and even more small to medium ones.  I just today got the sponge filters added (double stack of medium ACO’s).  The HOB is packed with sponge and has an ACO sponge prefilter.

Just added the orange laser cories into the tank late this afternoon.  Haven’t seen one since.  I’m fairly certain these guys were wild caught and they’ve been very skittish so far.  I’m hoping with more cover and plants that they will settle a bit more compared to how they were in the quarantine tank.  If they will lay some eggs for me, I’ll pull and hatch them so I have tamer/calmer cories to put in the angelfish tank that will be in a higher activity room.  The (hopefully soon to be) breeding group are in a lower activity room now, so I think that may help also.

I would attach a picture but it would look almost identical to the last one because the cories are all hiding.  I’ll see if they start coming out tomorrow.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Odd Duck
Typos

[Odd Duck]

Walked in on laser cory zoomies this morning!  And already better color than they were showing in the QT.  Makes me happy!  💃🏻 💃🏻 💃🏻  No picture of course because they hid as soon as they saw me.  But hopefully they will come to see me as the bringer of the yummies.

[Odd Duck]

Update pic of the tank.  There are no laser cories in sight here, but they’re doing fine.  I catch more and more glimpses but they are still very shy and skittish.  They are still growing up so it’s likely to be another few months before they breed.  They got a nice treat of live blackworms today.

No big changes in the tank, it’s just been a couple weeks and I thought I’d post an update. I’ve added a single stem of what’s supposed to be Alternanthera reineckii ‘Mini’ I got as a freebie when I bought some other plants from a local guy.  It’s gorgeous, but looks nothing like the AR ‘Mini’ I have or pics I’ve seen.  It’s at the left front in a jelly jar since the dwarf water lily that I put in there has run away and I can’t find it.  It wasn’t yet rooted well and I’m sure the cories sent it floating around.  It’s no doubt caught on something somewhere. I’ll find it eventually.  😆 

I did toss a new spawning moss in there, just in case they are more ready to breed than I think they are.  It never hurts to offer options, right?  😉 

Edit to add:  It looks like a stem of Staurogyne repens has come loose AGAIN!  Stuck against the spawning mop.  Maybe I should leave it there so it gets ideas?  I want more of it.  😃 😊 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Odd Duck

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:54 PM, Odd Duck said:

3. Cryptocoryne usteriana from TC.  Already getting big!  These should end up very tall.  I’ll have to start separating soon.

I know there is some places for the fish to hide. Let me grab a photo of one of my cory setups for the sake of explaining what I am trying to say.....

BUT, the plant above I think is the right one (back row, second from the left) should be about the right texture that the corys use if they are the type that will put eggs on the bottom of the leaves. Some prefer something like almond leaves on the ground, or a flat rock (slate or pond type, flat sieryu also works) or just on the glass, floater roots/mop, or basically wherever the flow is something they like.
 

I would be very interested to see what surface the fish prefer based on the setup you have.

The only thing I would do is to try to have a cave of some sorts for the fry and for the adults to escape to if need be. I prefer to use wood where the corys actually dig down a bit and get underneath the wood. In that tank, without a 1.5-2.5" deep bed it's a little bit tougher.  Per Cory's video, the corys will love to breed if you just go ahead and have it as a species tank with a surface they like.

heading to my tank to try to show off the cory wood behavior.
 

[nabokovfan87]

Just a bunch of Corys hiding out.

[Odd Duck]

Unfortunately, most of the cories passed and I only have 2/10 I started with.  I’ve never had cory losses like that but they’re also the first wild caught cories I’ve ever had.  Despite deworming and over 30 days of QT, I lost some after QT with zero changes in measurable tank parameters.  I suspect the yarn in the homemade spawning mop may have had something toxic in it.  It’s the only tank where I had losses in that time frame with essentially identical water changes, near identical parameters other than slight variations in TDS that likely had more to do with variation in substrates and planting levels.

I currently have bristlenose plecos in there as a QT and grow out until I can get at least 3 female blue eyed lemons, hopefully from the long finned ones I bought.  I also have a pair of super reds and a single super red that I think is a female (I’ll know soon).

I’m looking for more orange lasers to form a breeding group, but I’ll be looking for tank raised instead of wild caught this time around.  First I need to move more fish through QT since I don’t have one open at this point.  This tank comes open again on 4/25.