lmhicks101 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 So I truly love the color and flashy appeal of a school of tetras compared to their price of $2-$4 each. However I truly hate the fact that they’re so skittish and delicate. They hide the moment I’m near the tank and By delicate I mean they die like rabbits from fright. My harlequins however are always front and center. They have a beautiful color pattern and just over all may not be as pretty as the cardinals but offer more as a schooling fish. Is there another nano fish like them with the eye catching colors of a cardinal? Another issue I’m having now is Im losing 1 cardinal a day now. Waters at .25 ammonia 0 nitrites, and 5 nitrates. I think they truly might be starving their selves because they hide when I go to feed them and the harlequins and the betta eat everything. I tried giving a little and letting the others feed then feed them but nothings working. Tried frozen brine shrimp and blood worms, betta pellets, plecco wafers, and flakes. This is a gravely planted tank with hiding places and no sign of aggression from the other fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapexghost Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Blue tetras are worth looking into. How long have you had the cardinals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmedByFish Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I also like them but can't keep them. Although I haven't found a vibrant blue like that, I've found my dwarf red coral platies to be almost as vibrant of a red. For blue, the closest I've seen is a Japanese blue endler/guppy hybrid. It might also be worth considering exceptionally shiny fish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 @Scapexghost I’ve had them about 3 weeks now. @CalmedByFish I have a betta in there so I can’t have anything with long fins or that flashes. He’s no longer aggressive to any fish in the tank but if they were slow and had flashy fins he’d be a total jerk. Do either of you have a suggestion for a red nano fish that isn’t timid? Cherry barbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Cardinals are not the easiest tetra to keep, but if you truly love the colors and their schooling behavior maybe be patient and try to figure out why their so skittish. 1st thing I would suggest is doubling your shoal that looks like a 29G tank even if it’s a 20G looks like you have about 12 make it 20-24 the more of them the more comfortable they will be and they will school better and more. Butvif your ready to move on why not neon tetra they don’t school as well but sameish colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 @Atitagain yep it’s a 29. There’s about 16-17 in there. I had 21 but they’ve been dying off. Here’s what I have right now. I got the cardinals over neons because they get a little bigger and the more vibrant red coloring. Cardinal Tetras x16 Harlequin Rasbora x5 Pygmy Corries x8 Khuli loaches x6 Betta Snails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 16 is plenty for a 29; having some plants they can hide in helps. As for dying - they are delicate if water is off (nitrate, nitrite, very hard, strongly alkaline, ...); but given good water they should live 5+ years. Your tank should be around 80 degrees for the betta which the cardinals would appreciate but the pygmy cory and harlequin will not jump for joy. Do you know anything about your cardinals? Were they wild? tank raised? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmedByFish Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 5:39 PM, lmhicks101 said: Do either of you have a suggestion for a red nano fish that isn’t timid? Cherry barbs? The only thing I can think of is chili rasboras. I haven't even seen any in person, I just remember seeing some stunning pictures of their red color. Oh, there might be some vibrant red shrimp that fit your water parameters, if that's of any interest to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapexghost Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 4:39 PM, lmhicks101 said: @Scapexghost I’ve had them about 3 weeks now. @CalmedByFish I have a betta in there so I can’t have anything with long fins or that flashes. He’s no longer aggressive to any fish in the tank but if they were slow and had flashy fins he’d be a total jerk. Do either of you have a suggestion for a red nano fish that isn’t timid? Cherry barbs? Cherry barbs are good as are chili rasboras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 @anewbie I keep the tank at 78°. I don’t know anything about them. I had to special order them as no one but Petco had any left and they looked bad there. Now that I’m thinking about it, the pet store ordered about 40 and the ones I have are about all that’s left. @CalmedByFish & @Scapexghost I might try those. Are those fish and shrimp safe with my current stock? I’ll consider the fish if these cardinals keep dying off Im going to take them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atitagain Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 6:57 PM, lmhicks101 said: @Atitagain yep it’s a 29. There’s about 16-17 in there. I had 21 but they’ve been dying off. Here’s what I have right now. I got the cardinals over neons because they get a little bigger and the more vibrant red coloring. Cardinal Tetras x16 Harlequin Rasbora x5 Pygmy Corries x8 Khuli loaches x6 Betta Snails Yea with that stocking you are probably good where you are, no need to get more. And like @anewbiesaid more plants for them to hide in and water parameters need to be excellent. It took me a long while to get my shoal going and it was when my plants really filled in and my tank was good and seasoned now they are thriving. And don’t even get me started on what I went through for my rummynose tetras to get going. What I mean is both of those is what I absolutely loved and it was difficult and frustrating but I’m glad I did the work and now a year later I have both and they are amazing to me. good luck mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 I just went out and bought more Anachris for the background. Hopefully this helps them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 What is your pH, gh and kh? If you’re water is liquid rock it may just be the oldest fish can’t adapt to the environment. Younger healthier ones have a better chance. I would add some tannins - Indian almond leaves or other leaf litter would help them and the corys they like a lower pH if they are wild caught. They also interfere with bacteria and parasites - like antioxidants for fish. Otherwise from the picture I see that looks like good schooling behavior. They are hanging out between the two largest plants in the tank with the most cover, that’s fairly natural behavior. I’d work to get the ammonia level undetectable as they are fragile as everyone has indicated. The other issue is potential bugs - were they properly qt’d? Did they get the med trio? If you’ve had them 3 weeks, they weren’t quarantined came from the local store and went right into the tank you may have a parasite/bacterium, if they had bugs now is when they’d show up. You may need to get some pics of the fish and keep an eye out for anything on the gills, white stringy poop, or flashing - they dive into a plant and shimmy against it to try to get the parasite off. If any of that shows up post in the disease part of the forum. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 @Beardedbillygoat1975 this is a new tank so all the fish came in together and they’ve all been treated with the trio. I haven’t seen any signs of issues in theirs gills or them rubbing on things. The ammonia is about .25 now but treated with prime. The Kuhlis we’re showing some signs of either ich or mucas coat over doing it. I treated with ich-x for several days and water changes between and they’re fine now. As for the pH, GH, and KH before the water changes were pH - 6.6, GH - 6 to 7, and KH - 1 to 2. Now it’s fluctuating a little due to the changes. The tap is ph - 7 to 7.2, GH - 9, KH - 4. Today was the last time changing the water so tomorrow Ill tell the gh and KH again. pH today was 7 in the tank. From what you guys said this may be why they’re dying. I didn’t think that little of a swing would kill them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 @lmhicks101it just depends some tetras are indestructible and others are fragile like porcelain. Hard to say. In general you want as little fluctuations as you can have if they are stressed and prone to illness. You could age your water in a bucket - put an airstone in and cover the top (evaporative cooling can lead to up to 9 degree difference between ambient room temp and an open bucket) and let it come down a bit ph so it’s 6.8 instead of 7-7.2. You’ve done a lot of things right here and there may be factors we aren’t taking into account. The kuhlis illness is interesting but they’ve gotten over it but doesn’t mean the tetras didn’t take a hit. Unlike other pets you can’t alway see all their scars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 @Beardedbillygoat1975 thanks again. I’ll try the aged water and also just leave the tank alone for a few days besides feeding and water checks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) On 10/18/2021 at 8:31 PM, lmhicks101 said: @Beardedbillygoat1975 this is a new tank so all the fish came in together and they’ve all been treated with the trio. I haven’t seen any signs of issues in theirs gills or them rubbing on things. The ammonia is about .25 now but treated with prime. The Kuhlis we’re showing some signs of either ich or mucas coat over doing it. I treated with ich-x for several days and water changes between and they’re fine now. As for the pH, GH, and KH before the water changes were pH - 6.6, GH - 6 to 7, and KH - 1 to 2. Now it’s fluctuating a little due to the changes. The tap is ph - 7 to 7.2, GH - 9, KH - 4. Today was the last time changing the water so tomorrow Ill tell the gh and KH again. pH today was 7 in the tank. From what you guys said this may be why they’re dying. I didn’t think that little of a swing would kill them off. Do you know nitrite, and ammonia values ? I.e, how long has the aquarium been running. As for a decent plant for the cardinals I would suggest italia val, jungle val, hornworth or Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus; there are of course many other possible plants. anacharis is not a great choice. Also you need to be patient. It will take the plants several months to get established and grow. Also when you do water changes is the new water of a similar temp as the tank water? If not do you know how much the temp is changing when you add the new water ? Edited October 19, 2021 by anewbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmedByFish Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 5:57 PM, lmhicks101 said: Cardinal Tetras x16 Harlequin Rasbora x5 Pygmy Corries x8 Khuli loaches x6 Betta Snails On 10/18/2021 at 6:26 PM, lmhicks101 said: @CalmedByFish & @Scapexghost I might try those. Are those fish and shrimp safe with my current stock? I’ll consider the fish if these cardinals keep dying off Im going to take them back. All I know toward answering is the general rule that if a water animal fits into another water animal's mouth, it'll end up there. My best guess is that your adult shrimp would be safe, but baby shrimplets would get munched (unless you stuff the tank with hiding spots). But definitely start with all the water parameter work you guys have been talking about above. Shrimp are hardy in a stable environment, but a bit "cardinal tetray" with sudden changes in parameters. Also double-check that the shrimp you're interested in are good with whatever your stable parameters turn out to be. Neocaridina are said to be the hardiest type, so maybe research their parameters first. Second-hardest, I think, is caridina. Although my neocaridina are common cheap colors, I have seen pictures of some stunning reds. Now that I think about it, there's blue too! I've seen pictures of both dark blues and pastel blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laritheloud Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Agree with patience. I know you posted earlier about not seeing nitrites and your tank is still not cycled. It will take time and patience. Cardinals are sensitive, so they might not like the environment of a cycling tank, and you might lose some more. Stocking a tank fully all at once in a new tank can be risky. Be dilligent and watch the water! I'm sorry you're losing your cardinals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettsPapa Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I haven't read all the replies, but have you considered black neon tetras? The name is misleading, since the stripes are sky blue and navy blue instead of black (or at least mine are, from multiple sources). They don't have the red, but they're still very attractive fish, very hardy, and won't easily get outcompeted for food. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmhicks101 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 @JettsPapa I saw them. They’re pretty. I’m gonna hold out and see if they do better and go from there but possibly them or a few cherry barbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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