Water change with powerhead?

[Atitagain]

Been using my python to do water changes into my sink, problem is I pay for water and sewer. So if I can use a siphon into a bucket then send water out a window to yard I would save money. Only paying to fill not paying for water to start python or the sewer bill for draining. 
From the floor (bottom of bucket) it would be about a 4’ lift to get it out the window. Would the Aquarium Co-Op Power Head be capable of this? If not any recommendations on one that will work? I’ve been wanting to do this for a while now and $20 seems like a fair price.

[ARMYVET]

I am not sure about the head pressure power of the COOP power head but what I use/have used is a fountain pump. One rated for pressure with ahead of 6-8 ft and those are relatively inexpensive.

A quick AMZ search came up with this which is rated for 7 ft.

https://www.amazon.com/GROWNEER-Submersible-Fountain-Aquarium-Hydroponics/dp/B07MDBYTLS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=FOuntain+pump&qid=1632138764&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRDNFQklFSFAwSlY3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODQ3MzcxMlg0MEdPS1EzWkNLRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTcxNzgzMUVISzFMNTE2SjJQNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= 

 

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:54 AM, ARMYVET said:

I am not sure about the head pressure power of the COOP power head but what I use/have used is a fountain pump. One rated for pressure with ahead of 6-8 ft and those are relatively inexpensive.

A quick AMZ search came up with this which is rated for 7 ft.

https://www.amazon.com/GROWNEER-Submersible-Fountain-Aquarium-Hydroponics/dp/B07MDBYTLS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=FOuntain+pump&qid=1632138764&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRDNFQklFSFAwSlY3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODQ3MzcxMlg0MEdPS1EzWkNLRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTcxNzgzMUVISzFMNTE2SjJQNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= 

 

Yea I’ve looked at fountain pumps before, just was thinking if the power head would work I could always have it as a back up if I needed it in a tank for some reason. Just couldn’t find info about its head pressure to know if it would lift that high.

thanks @ARMYVET I like that model will save it in case I need to order.

[DaveO]

The co-op power head looks like a redesigned aqua top that the co-op also sells. It is rated to push water a max of 3.6 feet high.

Edited September 20, 2021 by DaveO
Goofed up the 3.6 number

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:21 AM, DaveO said:

The co-op power head looks like a redesigned aqua top that the co-op also sells. It is rated to push water a max of 3.6 feet high.

Hmm I guess I’ll get one and try if it works I’ll get another, need one for my African cichlid tank anyway.

thanks

[DaveO]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:34 AM, Atitagain said:

Hmm I guess I’ll get one and try if it works I’ll get another, need one for my African cichlid tank anyway.

thanks

I would be interested in your real life experience with it.

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:39 AM, DaveO said:

I would be interested in your real life experience with it.

Might be a week or a little more before I order but I’ll update here when I do.

[MJV Aquatics]

I use an inexpensive EcoPlus 396 submersible pump (from Amazon). It has a 6 foot pump height or so. Now I'm on a private well and septic system so my waste water often goes out the drain for the basement tanks, although I can run the hose out to the lawn for the 60g display tank in the living room.

[Atitagain]

@ARMYVET @MJV Aquatics when doing gravel vac does this ever clog the pumps? Do you have to clean after each use to prevent this? 
I would imagine the powerhead would have a problem  with this, it seems to be a much smaller motor and probably just designed to move water not waste?

[ARMYVET]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, Atitagain said:

@ARMYVET @MJV Aquatics when doing gravel vac does this ever clog the pumps? Do you have to clean after each use to prevent this? 
I would imagine the powerhead would have a problem  with this, it seems to be a much smaller motor and probably just designed to move water not waste?

You do not use the powerhead to do the gravel vac.  You use a siphon hoes to suck out the debris.  The pump is used to either replace the water in the tanks or get the water out of the bucket.  You can put a sponge over the water intake to the pump and all should be good to go .   Most detritus waste can go thru the pump with zero issue.  The sponge really is only to keep gravel out of the pump assembly.

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:01 AM, ARMYVET said:

You do not use the powerhead to do the gravel vac.  You use a siphon hoes to suck out the debris.  The pump is used to either replace the water in the tanks or get the water out of the bucket.  You can put a sponge over the water intake to the pump and all should be good to go .   Most detritus waste can go thru the pump with zero issue.  The sponge really is only to keep gravel out of the pump assembly.

I see you filter the intake on the pump. 👍

[Tihshho]

If you get a pump with a threaded output and have a 50 gallon trashcan, you can partially fill the trashcan and put the pump in with the python unit attached to it to have a closed circuit python. You'd be reusing the drained water to feed the python venturi. 

[ARMYVET]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:19 AM, Tihshho said:

If you get a pump with a threaded output and have a 50 gallon trashcan, you can partially fill the trashcan and put the pump in with the python unit attached to it to have a closed circuit python. You'd be reusing the drained water to feed the python venturi. 

I have done this but I used a cannister filter for that.  Worked pretty well when I wanted to vac without doing a water change. 

[Tihshho]

I was talking about having the pump in the drain container, not in the tank since then you get vac + water change. 

[ARMYVET]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:29 AM, Tihshho said:

I was talking about having the pump in the drain container, not in the tank since then you get vac + water change. 

I do see what your saying...never did it that way.  I think you would end up removing alot more water since its pumping water the entire time a lot faster than a siphon would depending on the size of the pump.

[Tihshho]

You're right, it all depends on the PSI of the pump outlet. If it matches your faucet PSI or is slightly less, it shouldn't be more than what's being pulled by running a python attached to a faucet.

Putting a splitter on the pump would also mean you could have a drain hose to pump it to the yard without having to pull the pump and changing connections. You could get around it with quick connect fittings, but that will get costly and add a choke point. 

[MJV Aquatics]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, Atitagain said:

@ARMYVET @MJV Aquatics when doing gravel vac does this ever clog the pumps? Do you have to clean after each use to prevent this? 
I would imagine the powerhead would have a problem  with this, it seems to be a much smaller motor and probably just designed to move water not waste?

I use a sand (either pool filter or play sand) as the substrate that I never disturb...ever. Nothing gets down under with sand so partial water changes are merely that - no hassle with gravel vacuuming!

Note: The sand is managed by Cory catfish and an army of Malaysian Trumpet Snails. Down under the bacteria and microbes live undisturbed.

[Littlefish]

Is your sewer on a meter?  If I'm not mistaken in my county the sewage fee is based off the water used according to our water meter. 

Tank water is still a great way to water plants, regardless.

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:19 AM, Tihshho said:

If you get a pump with a threaded output and have a 50 gallon trashcan, you can partially fill the trashcan and put the pump in with the python unit attached to it to have a closed circuit python. You'd be reusing the drained water to feed the python venturi. 

I’m lost here. 
1) small siphon from tank to can-pump has python hooked to outlet tube-part normally hooked to sink is outside? Isn’t that what pump is for?

2) python siphon in tank to can-part normally hooked to sink on inlet tube-hose from outlet to outside? Isn’t that what the pumps for?

3)small siphon to can-part normally hooked to sink on outlet tube-python outside? Isn’t that what the pumps for?

am I missing a configuration here? All scenarios seem easier to-small siphon to can-hose on outlet tube to outside? Not understanding how it increases flow or vac suction. 
Im sure as soon as you explain I’ll be like ohhh yea that makes perfect sense 😵‍💫🤪🥴

Edited September 20, 2021 by Atitagain
Spelimg

[Tihshho]

I'm talking about using a 'mag' pump rather than your standard powerhead. Mag pumps generally have threaded ends like this.

Since you have a python already, the sink attachment will thread onto it and you can place that into a bucket. The sink attachment I'm talking about is this:

You'd have to make sure the trashcan has enough water in it to start pumping (inlet of the pump is in the trashcan) and then once the flow starts the powered siphon would be running. 

The splitter I'm talking about is a standard hose splitter like this.

With the splitter you'd be able to have the python attached as well as a secondary hose (so you don't have to keep attaching and removing stuff) and from the flip of the ball valve you could select if the setup is ready to drain the tank (python hose) or feeding your yard/garden (secondary hose)

 

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:11 PM, Littlefish said:

Is your sewer on a meter?  If I'm not mistaken in my county the sewage fee is based off the water used according to our water meter. 

Tank water is still a great way to water plants, regardless.

I’m not sure about this, I just know it’s two separate charges. And unless I want to run and restart the siphon after every tank (14) I have to keep water running. So if I do all 14 tanks (normally would do 8-10 each Sunday) I have water running 3 1/2-4 hours straight. 

[Guppy Guy]

In the book “breeding show guppies” by Bryan George Chin, he demonstrates using a siphon feeding into a 5 gallon bucket with a bunch of small holes, placed inside a 40 gallon storage tote with a sump pump in it. He gravel vacs the tanks with the siphon, the water goes into the 5 gallon bucket, the holes stop the sucked-up fish and plants from escaping, the water trickles out of the holes into the tote, and a sump pump pushes it out to his garden(a fountain pump would probably work too).

I personally siphon the water into a bucket, dump that out, and refill the bucket with clean water, and pump that into the tank with an ancient maxi-jet from marineland. Don’t ask me what model it is, I got it for 5 bucks from my LFS, and the paint is hard to read.

[Atitagain]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:08 PM, Tihshho said:

I'm talking about using a 'mag' pump rather than your standard powerhead. Mag pumps generally have threaded ends like this.

Since you have a python already, the sink attachment will thread onto it and you can place that into a bucket. The sink attachment I'm talking about is this:

You'd have to make sure the trashcan has enough water in it to start pumping (inlet of the pump is in the trashcan) and then once the flow starts the powered siphon would be running. 

The splitter I'm talking about is a standard hose splitter like this.

With the splitter you'd be able to have the python attached as well as a secondary hose (so you don't have to keep attaching and removing stuff) and from the flip of the ball valve you could select if the setup is ready to drain the tank (python hose) or feeding your yard/garden (secondary hose)

 

See I told you it would make perfect sense. I was missing the splitter. Although a quick search says those mag pumps are significantly more expensive. Would the benefits outweigh the cost? I’m down if it is (maybe) but $20-$40 to $90-$140 🤷🏻

[Tihshho]

I can't say first hand that this is an ideal solution, I stick to my python. I was just proposing an idea that would allow you to still use the python to which you've already invested. 

If saving money is key, reducing the automation and putting in manual labor is the save all. Sucks to be hauling buckets, but then there is no additional water being used to run the python and no additional load to the power bill. At that point the only cost would be source water going into the tanks. 

[Jimfish98]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:41 AM, Atitagain said:

Been using my python to do water changes into my sink, problem is I pay for water and sewer. So if I can use a siphon into a bucket then send water out a window to yard I would save money. Only paying to fill not paying for water to start python or the sewer bill for draining. 
From the floor (bottom of bucket) it would be about a 4’ lift to get it out the window. Would the Aquarium Co-Op Power Head be capable of this? If not any recommendations on one that will work? I’ve been wanting to do this for a while now and $20 seems like a fair price.

I would not bother as it is likely not to impact your water/sewage bill at all. Most water municipalities bill sewage on an estimate of the amount of water being used going back out the drain eventually. Some have winter rates assuming 100% in and 100% out and summer rates being lower assuming landscaping, pools, washing cars, etc. Measuring water usage is easy due to pressurization but gravity flow of waste out of your house is too difficult to get accurate. I would first check in to see exactly how it is billed before taking any steps. If you are looking to greatly reduce costs, a lower flow shower head or toilets would produce greater results.