Rummynose breeding project

[Atitagain]

9/7 water testhardness and buffer stayed same PH ^6.6 need to bring back down will add 1 gal of original water supply. Recheck in 4 hours.

[Atitagain]

Tried to do a ton of research on MB today most everything just repetitive. Videos don’t actually show dosing except in large containers info is vague about dosing except you need 3ppm. Gonna have to ball park dosing in a specimen container. 2 drops is what I’m going with after talking to @Tihshho .what I understand is place eggs in container and only dose once on first day will last 3-5 days. When they become free swimming/ wrigglers change water out slowly with tank water. Then place in grow out tank. That’s the plan, will attempt spawning Friday 9/10/21 at 10-10:30am. 
water checkPH back down to 6.4 need to maintain that throughout.

[Tihshho]

What I would say, is change the water around 90% daily. So the initial batch of water in the container will be form the tank, hang the box in the tank to keep temps and make sure the air flow isn't splashing MB water into the tank. 24 hours later (or next morning) change the water with tank water, and top off tank since you'll be reducing tank water level. The reason I say that is then you will have the freshest water available with the eggs. MB is thankfully not pricey, so a couple drops a day will barely impact the volume you have left in the bottle. 

[Atitagain]

On 9/7/2021 at 9:50 PM, Tihshho said:

What I would say, is change the water around 90% daily. So the initial batch of water in the container will be form the tank, hang the box in the tank to keep temps and make sure the air flow isn't splashing MB water into the tank. 24 hours later (or next morning) change the water with tank water, and top off tank since you'll be reducing tank water level. The reason I say that is then you will have the freshest water available with the eggs. MB is thankfully not pricey, so a couple drops a day will barely impact the volume you have left in the bottle. 

Thanks a lot, I’m pretty confident in the plan you helped me make. You’ve been more than helpful. 
I’m watching/ researching as much as I can but one thing i still question when I shut the lights down to trigger spawning, how long to wait before checking on them? Don’t want to spook them but the enclosure is not huge, don’t wanna give them a chance to eat them either?

[Tihshho]

Isn't your spawning box setup so the eggs will fall out of the bottom?

[Atitagain]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:14 PM, Tihshho said:

Isn't your spawning box setup so the eggs will fall out of the bottom?

Yes but also have a mop inside that’s about half the length 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Atitagain

[Atitagain]

9/9 a lot more vids/ reading yesterday. Got into researching dark water tanks to set up long term rummynose tank. Will need to this to have healthiest possible to increase chances of breeding success. 
Tomorrow is spawning day #1, today need to -increase temp to 85*- feed fish this morning will not feed tonight. -set up 2 gal of water at 80* to be used for cool water change at 6:00am tomorrow -set shade leaves -7:00 heavy defused blue light on  -7:30 light defused blue light -8:00 very heavy defused light -8:30 heavy defused light -9:00 light defused light-9:45 full light 10:00 feed bloodworms -10:15 lights out -collect parents then eggs at ???o clock

[Atitagain]

9/9 got temp up to 85* tested water all parameters staying strong. Will do cool water change in morning and I believe will hit PH at exactly where I wanna be 6.2-6.3. So excited all other breeding projects I’ve done before seem easy in comparison. Not positive I will get results I want but I’ve learned so much this week it’s well worth the effort. 
will list what I believe I did wrong after spawning regardless of results.

[Tihshho]

Best of luck on getting a successful spawn! You have all the tools are your disposal, now it's time to implement them 😃

Edited September 10, 2021 by Tihshho

[Atitagain]

9/10 the spawn is on.

couple changes to plan: 4:00am started heating water.6:00 cool water change 2G at 75* dropped tank temp to 82.8* immediately tested waterGH 60=good KH =20 goodish PH 6.4 =lil high

set shade leaves over spawning mop 7:00 heavy defused blue light 7:30 defused blue light 8:00 very heavy defused light 8:30 heavy defused light 9:00 defused light. Feed bloodworms temp 74.9= perfect water testGH 40=perfect KH 30= good PH 6.2= perfect 

All conditions in very good shape. 
couple things I’m worried about: fish are not of breeding age(should be good ive had them 9ish months), haven’t been able to keep close eye on them over this whole time( tank is weird spot on rack can’t see down into enclosure) so not sure they have been eating well, I haven’t fed them enough live food (BBS a couple times”), parents lived in bad water conditions as far as GH,KH, and,PH, do I have 2M 2F?,

will make first check for eggs at 12:00 3 hours after feeding.

[Atitagain]

9/11 no success on attempt 1. Bringing temp down to 77* then gonna move tank to a better set up. Was originally just gonna be a QT set up now for breeding I’ll need to move for sure. leaving a very simple set up gonna get plenty of moss and keep parameters as close to optimal as possible. Going to get live foods to feed them as well. 
this was not a failure but a stepping stone I have learned so much and need to learn more. I will try these parent selection again after monitoring them and being sure I have 2M and 2F. One of my big set backs with fish keeping is patience I want these to breed now. But I have to step back and take a more educated with better set up attempt.

[Guppysnail]

Failure is success in progress.” – Albert Einstein

[ARMYVET]

Failure is natures way of teaching us. 

With that in mind I should be the most advanced scholar on the planet but nope still being edjumacated🤪

[Atitagain]

@Guppysnail. @ARMYVET trial and error is my favorite way of learning, thanks for the encouragement!

[Tihshho]

@Atitagain for a lot of species they key is patience. I can't tell you how many times I setup breeding setups to check tanks multiple times a day and go to bed slightly disappointed. When you least expect it or are prepared for it is when you'll have the best results. Work on getting the fish fat and happy, from there things will go your way. Get the tank and your processes setup so that you're in the tank less in order for the fish to be more comfortable (especially with skittish tetras.)

[H20CultureLabs]

Just a friendly tip, but personally, I would remove the snails and shrimp. I find I have much better success with White Clouds and CPDs in a setup without them which leads me to believe they are egg eaters. 

[Atitagain]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:35 PM, Tihshho said:

@Atitagain for a lot of species they key is patience. I can't tell you how many times I setup breeding setups to check tanks multiple times a day and go to bed slightly disappointed. When you least expect it or are prepared for it is when you'll have the best results. Work on getting the fish fat and happy, from there things will go your way. Get the tank and your processes setup so that you're in the tank less in order for the fish to be more comfortable (especially with skittish tetras.)

Yes patience, I’m gonna set up a 20G basically for these 4 fish. Make it darkwater and like you said fatten them up. Gonna try and spoil them with more live foods, small 2 a day feedings, soft water probably try to keep it 7.0 PH , 40 GH, and 80-100 KH. Then when they good and comfortable lower PH and raise temps let them breed in moss/ mops then pull eggs.

[Atitagain]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:25 PM, H20CultureLabs said:

Just a friendly tip, but personally, I would remove the snails and shrimp. I find I have much better success with White Clouds and CPDs in a setup without them which leads me to believe they are egg eaters. 

Thank you, any suggestions what to keep with them? Gonna do a darkwater tank 20G just 4 rummys and… gonna be a lot of leaf litter, moss, couple Anubis, maybe some long vallisneria. Got a couple different chunks of wood will be using something.

Im thinking like 10 corys habrosus

[Struggle]

If it was me I’d keep them all alone.

[Atitagain]

BREEDING ATTEMPT #2

9/11 new plan set up 20G dark/ soft water, big wood on right, lot of leaf litter, gravel substrate, Anubis center close to top ( leaves at water level), rock with tunnel and moss top directly under Anubis, vallisneria back left (possible in planter)long draping for more shade, HOB filter, maybe air stone front right corner. Could add mops when ready to breed.thinking 10 Cory habrosus 

 

[Atitagain]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:18 PM, Struggle said:

If it was me I’d keep them all alone.

Yea this is true I should, then I have nothing else to worry about in there. I think your right I will change plan. Thanks 

[H20CultureLabs]

I agree with @Struggle, having no other critters in the fry tank offers the best chance for success. 

One thing that can help to make sure your fish are actually breeding is removing the eggs with a siphon and checking for their presence with a flashlight. This video offers an excellent demonstration and is a good video about breeding egg scattering fish. 

 

[Atitagain]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:18 PM, H20CultureLabs said:

I agree with @Struggle, having no other critters in the fry tank offers the best chance for success. 

One thing that can help to make sure your fish are actually breeding is removing the eggs with a siphon and checking for their presence with a flashlight. This video offers an excellent demonstration and is a good video about breeding egg scattering fish. 

 

Wow what an amazing video!!! I actually love his set up, it’s so simplistic but structured. He is most definitely like a mad scientist. I’m so worried about creating the perfect environment to breed, he’s like I put them in a 2 gallon bowl and check on them every couple days. Thanks so much for sharing this gives me a lot to think about.

[Atitagain]

2nd attempt underway, 29G moved and set up. Trying to create a nice comfortable set up for the 4 possible parents. spawning mop in center will be removed and moss in its place. Sponge filter will be removed as well. (Cycling in HOB) 

Need to confirm parents are 2M 2F. Darken water more and have patience. Gonna wait at least 2 weeks and if water parameters stay solid, I get moss in, and they eat well (need to culture/ buy live foods) I will start raising temps and see what happens.

 

[Atitagain]

Been on a hold to let tank season up a bit before I try breeding again. About 5 days ago I noticed only 5 rummys were coming out to eat (should be 6) haven’t been able to count 6 since. Not wanting to get into tank for any reason except to feed and test water twice a week, I left it alone hoping they would all show up. As of last night I resigned to the fact I’ve lost another. Beginning to worry why, what did I do wrong, will I have to change something and disrupt their acclamation, or even worse lose more or have to add more. I’m prepared for the long haul understanding this could be a very long process. But just when things started to go smoothly. 😒

But tonight at sundown mode like 10 minutes before lights out I see 

Celebrate the little things because tomorrow is not guaranteed. 
Other than that tank is running great! Plants are showing new growth. Tannins coming along nice, I think it looks amazing. It’s even got me wanting when I set my 55G backup to go darkwater on it as well. I think I’m supposed to call it blackwater but I’m not going that deep and I just like the term darkwater better. 😏