Filtration Planning

[MarkDavenport]

Hello all, I just watched your old YouTube video from April/2018 on filtration.  I need some help and just am not finding a lot for large tanks.  Trying to plan my dream tank and am struggling on the filtration system as there isn't a lot out there about large tanks.

Dream Tank is 10"L x 4'H x 4’W  roughly 1,200 gallons  (This may change a little bit on width and height as I have found that people don't like cleaning the tall tanks, and wide may be an issue as well).   Looking to over stock Lake Malawi Cichlids - Mbuna, Haps and Peacocks in this tank to help with the aggression issues.

Then I get lost in the world in filtration. 

LFS is telling me to use 3-4 Eheim 2262 Canisters.  This just doesn't compute in my limited experience of a 210 gal Malawi tank running 2 Fx6s and a 1,500 GPH powerhead for surface agitation.  Is there any way this can be right.  I see the specs of the 2262 being less GPH than the Fx6s.

Friend is telling me to use a 150 gal wet dry sump with a trickle filter setup with 2 return pumps rated between 1,000-2,000 GPH, and to use an auto drip automatic water change system, with an overflo from the sump to a drain.  I have never used a sump, but only 2,000-4,000 GPH sounds REALLY low to me.   But, the amount of media surface seems better than the 4 canister filters.  How does the noise level compare to the Fluvals?  The tank will be in my living room......so, am concerned about the return pumps being loud???

Ughhh, I know it is worth it...but, I am really frustrated since all the information I am finding is mostly for 55-185 gal size tanks.  

Any help is greatly appreciated......as I want to do this the best way I can, but cant make an educated choice with no information.  LOL

Thanks all!

 

Mark

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by MarkDavenport
Typo on measurement

[lefty o]

with a tank that large, my thoughts are a sump would be the way to go. even if you only ran 1000-1500 gallons an hour through it, the amount of surface area available in a sump  would be vastly superior to multiple canister filters etc. think of how many layers of different types of media could be set up in a sump thats maybe the size of a 125gal tank.

[Jungle Fan]

The way you have your measurements listed are off, you listed 10 inches by 4 feet by 4 inches, I take it they are all supposed to be in feet to get to that volume. In any case for a 1,200 gallon tank I would definitely recommend using a large sump with several stages and a pre-filter.

[Andy's Fish Den]

Typically, for large tanks, the choice is a sump system, otherwise you are running multiple canister filters. There are many custom sump builders that will make you whatever you want out of acrylic. There is a company that make custom tanks and they have a sump system that is modular, that you can mix and match pieces to get what you want, and in the space you have. Or, you could just find an old tank, like say a 180 and make your own. 

[MickS77]

I would recommend a sump as well. With that bioload having a sump full of media would be great. It would also be a lot easier to maintenance than multiple canister filters too. I have a Seamless Sump running my living room with DC return pumps and it is very quiet. There is a learning curve getting the overflow properly tuned and silent. 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

I agree with sump, Capacity, flexibility, and accessibility are great with a sump. You can even run plants in it, something no canister I am aware of can do.

[Daniel]

@MarkDavenport

When faced with a similar choice to yours, I chose not to have any filter or sump. I have never regretted that decision.

I have been running an 8 foot by 3 foot by 3 foot aquarium since 2007 with no filter at all.

Here is what the aquarium looked like in 2010 with plants:

Here is what is currently looks like as a hardscape only tank.

It runs fine either way.

Filters are a home for beneficial bacteria and provide circulation and flow in the aquarium. In a large aquarium there is plenty of room and surface area for the bacteria and you don't need a filter to provide flow.  I have an Iwaki pump underneath the aquarium that constantly circulates the water and an inline heater, but that is it.

As your friend suggests, I do have an automatic water change system, with an overflow standpipe that goes to an outdoor pond (full of cherry shrimp).

It is hard to imagine what the addition of canister filters or sumps would add in a positive way to the functioning of a large system like this. It is easy to imagine the cost, noise and maintenance that this additional equipment would bring.

So, even though it must sound counterintuitive in the extreme, as someone who has lived with a large aquarium in the middle of my livingroom for more than a decade, I would advise considering going without any mechanical filter at all.

[MarkDavenport]

26 minutes ago, Daniel said:

@MarkDavenport

When faced with a similar choice to yours, I chose not to have any filter or sump. I have never regretted that decision.

I have been running an 8 foot by 3 foot by 3 foot aquarium since 2007 with no filter at all.

Here is what the aquarium looked like in 2010 with plants:

Here is what is currently looks like as a hardscape only tank.

It runs fine either way.

Filters are a home for beneficial bacteria and provide circulation and flow in the aquarium. In a large aquarium there is plenty of room and surface area for the bacteria and you don't need a filter to provide flow.  I have an Iwaki pump underneath the aquarium that constantly circulates the water and an inline heater, but that is it.

As your friend suggests, I do have an automatic water change system, with an overflow standpipe that goes to an outdoor pond (full of cherry shrimp).

It is hard to imagine what the addition of canister filters or sumps would add in a positive way to the functioning of a large system like this. It is easy to imagine the cost, noise and maintenance that this additional equipment would bring.

So, even though it must sound counterintuitive in the extreme, as someone who has lived with a large aquarium in the middle of my livingroom for more than a decade, I would advise considering going without any mechanical filter at all.

You are correct, it sounds very counterintuitive.  I’m intrigued but how would this work on an overstocked tank for mbuna?  I’d have to do massive daily water changes....wouldn’t I?  I mean, what’s handling the bio load for the 150 or so 5-10” fish?

See, it’s these type of things that make my head swivel.  LOL

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, MarkDavenport said:

 I’m intrigued but how would this work on an overstocked tank for mbuna?  I’d have to do massive daily water changes....wouldn’t I?

Up until recently this aquarium had 75+ 4 - 5 inch adult angelfish (that had been in there for 5 years). I don't think it the aquarium was anywhere near its carrying capacity in terms of bioload. I suspect I could have had 200 large angelfish in there without issues.

If what you intend to have is about 150 fish around 5 inches in length in an aquarium almost 2 1/2 times as large, my inclination is that you wouldn't exceed your aquarium's bioload capacity.

I have never had to do massive daily water changes on this tank. With the angelfish you see above, I did a 20% change somewhere between once every two weeks and once a month. Several times I went many months with no water change at all.

[TheDukeAnumber1]

@Daniel

What was the feeding schedule for that angelfish tank?

[MJV Aquatics]

It's interesting that many in the hobby seem to think that filters make water more pure (I've lost track of "there's no such thing as too much filtration")...when in fact, filters merely trap waste that continues to decompose and pollute the water. Oh filters make the water clearer, but not any purer. And the very best bio-filter in an established tank is in the substrate, especially a substrate of fine gravel or coarse sand with a 3" depth or so.

I have a few articles on this.

Just my $.02, but if it was me, I'd opt for the deeper substrate bio-filter, to have plants, especially fast growing floating plants and a single large canister filter for water circulation and mechanical filtration only. Then sufficient volume/frequency of partial water changes to ensure a continued high quality water chemistry.

Edited February 23, 2021 by MJV Aquatics

[Daniel]

47 minutes ago, TheDukeAnumber1 said:

@Daniel

What was the feeding schedule for that angelfish tank?

Ah @TheDukeAnumber1 insightfully asks the key question. Light to moderate feedings of flake food mostly. But there were time periods with much heavier feeding of blackworms, mosquito larva, etc.

[Jungle Fan]

All depends on what type of filter media you're using if you are using purely mechanical, or if you are also using biomedia, possibly even with aeration as can be provided in a sump. In that case you have large amounts of Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter help convert the ammonia into ultimately Nitrate, which will keep your plants happy, Or you can do what I do and also use a base layer of porous substrate that gets colonized by bacteria from the start and seed it with such, in my case I used crushed lava rock, and then I loaded my canister filter which I run with a pre-filter with sponge and sintered glass (Siporax), in addition to heavy planting. Of course you can run a tank without filter, as long as you don't overstock, don't overfeed,don't  use food heavy on producing waste, use heavy plants, and still maintain water changes.

Many love to experiment, I just stick with what I know works; I use it all, colonized substrate, canister filter, heavy plants, frequent large water changes, and a surface skimmer. If I currently had a tank larger than a 150 gallons I would once again run a sump instead of the canister filter.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Jungle Fan