Tetra Guy Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Planning my first “biggie” a 75 gallon planted tank. I would like to add a sump filter system. My plan is to have the sump in the basement laundry room one floor directly below the aquarium. That way i can hide the life support hardware, and worry less about dripping water on the hardwood floor. My question for the group: what would be the best PVC pipe diameter for my application? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardeepTheLondoner Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Sorry I’m terrible at plumbing so I won’t advise you on PVC! I’m curious to know why you’d like to opt for a sump? I feel if it’s a planted tank, you could get away with a lot less considering the water volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetra Guy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 A sump would allow me to hide the life support hardware and perform water changes downstairs in the basement where i have cement floors, and direct access to my water supply. In addition, my long term goal is a salt water reef aquarium, so experience with a sump is another small step towards marine life management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardeepTheLondoner Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Ah fair enough, I hope someone chimes in to help with the pipe work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegee79 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I am far from a pro with this, but I would assume you want about 1" from the tank to the sump, and then match up the return to the size of your pump. All that aside, I feel like you are going to have to have a MASSIVE return pump in order to get it the 13-15' back up to the tank. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty o Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 3/4-1" would likely be plenty, but the pump for the return would be likely to dictate the piping size. as mentioned above, the pressure head from the sump in the floor below, all the way up to the top of the tank is going to be the biggest concern. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 its a reef website but it has a lot of good plumbing articles https://gmacreef.com/ also for a return pump maybe you should go with a external pump since they are generally used for high head pressure also look on reef websites, and forums since sumps are very popular with reef tanks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) I have to agree with Squeegee and Lefty. I would start the project by finding a suitable pump. Then, I would simply choose plumbing of the next larger size; compared to the pump outlet. Finding a pump, appropriate for your requirements will probably be the bigger chore. Be sure to find one rated for your desired flow rate AT the height the water will be lifted. For example: I have a pump which is rated at 83 gallons per hour. At 1 foot of lift, it's rated at 63 gallons per hour and at 2 feet of lift, it's rated at 0 gallons per hour. Edited February 1, 2021 by Frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetra Guy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, quirkylemon103 said: its a reef website but it has a lot of good plumbing articles https://gmacreef.com/ also for a return pump maybe you should go with a external pump since they are generally used for high head pressure also look on reef websites, and forums since sumps are very popular with reef tanks Wow, thanks, there’s so much good info there! I will need hours and hours to digest it all. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetra Guy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 Thanks for the heads up regarding the pump. Looks like i will be needing an industrial strength piece of gear. I forsee the laundry room ending up looking like a water management plant, and that will be cool. “Bachelor Privilege.” 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tetra Guy said: Thanks for the heads up regarding the pump. Looks like i will be needing an industrial strength piece of gear. I forsee the laundry room ending up looking like a water management plant, and that will be cool. “Bachelor Privilege.” 😄 I don't think so how many feet up and what flow rate? rated for 12.5 ft. head height at 660 gallons per hour but with pvc fittings it will probably be less btw idk how much return flow a FW tank needs Edited February 1, 2021 by quirkylemon103 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetra Guy Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 I figure about 15 feet. Mostly vertical with maybe two or three 90 degree elbows. Haven’t done any hard planning yet, just getting an idea of what’s involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 what flow rate does a freshwater tank need if using a sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetra Guy Posted February 2, 2021 Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) I think something like 10x the aquarium capacity per hour is recommended. But my HOB filters usually run at a trickle and the water is very clean. I guess I would aim for 5x, so 375g / hr . Edited February 2, 2021 by Tetra Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy's Fish Den Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Look for one of the newer DC power pumps that have variable speed. You don't have to spend a ton of money on a Ecotech one, there are plenty of decent ones for less. I have a Hygger one and have no issues what so ever with it. Most pumps come with adapters for 3/4" and 1" plumbing, to either plumb it with PVC or with flexible vinyl tubing. What ever size you end up using for the return (between pump and tank) make your overflow pipes at least the next size up, if not two sizes up. Example, you use 1" return line, use at least 1.25" overflow, or even 1.5". Another tip, when plumbing overflow, be sure to have at least two holes drilled for overflow to sump, that way if one gets clogged, you won't flood at all or as quickly. Even better, google "bean animal overflow system" it uses three holes, and is silent and fail safe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenman Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Something to consider is the size of the return plumbing. While you need a powerful pump, a lot of the power requirements of that pump will vary depending on the size of the return plumbing. A smaller diameter return requires a less powerful pump. If you're using something really small, like airline tubing as the return, a very small pump can generate the lift you need as there's a very small volume of water you're lifting. If you're using three inch PVC as the return you're trying to push up a much larger volume of water. A smaller diameter return line will need a less powerful pump than a larger diameter return line because there's less water it has to push up the pipe. Volume matters. Most of the sizing charts you'll find for pumps will be based on the recommended pipe diameter. If you go up in diameter, you'll lose vertical lift. If you go down in size, you'll gain vertical lift, but put a bit more strain on the pump. Pond websites tend to have lots of information on pump discharge heights and flow rates. Some people build really tall fountains and waterfalls and need that information. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 8:39 AM, Andy's Fish Den said: Look for one of the newer DC power pumps that have variable speed. You don't have to spend a ton of money on a Ecotech one, there are plenty of decent ones for less. I have a Hygger one and have no issues what so ever with it. Most pumps come with adapters for 3/4" and 1" plumbing, to either plumb it with PVC or with flexible vinyl tubing. What ever size you end up using for the return (between pump and tank) make your overflow pipes at least the next size up, if not two sizes up. Example, you use 1" return line, use at least 1.25" overflow, or even 1.5". Another tip, when plumbing overflow, be sure to have at least two holes drilled for overflow to sump, that way if one gets clogged, you won't flood at all or as quickly. Even better, google "bean animal overflow system" it uses three holes, and is silent and fail safe. I believe ac pumps are better for high head pressure use(basically the amount of resistant's in the plumbing like elbows, valves and height) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/1/2021 at 1:15 PM, quirkylemon103 said: I don't think so how many feet up and what flow rate? rated for 12.5 ft. head height at 660 gallons per hour but with pvc fittings it will probably be less btw idk how much return flow a FW tank needs At maximum head height you're not going to get anywhere near the stated flow rate, which is typically measured at 0 feet. A lot of pump manufacturers will usually have charts available that will show you the flow rate drop off as you reach maximum head pressure height. For instance, here are the specs for the Syncra Silent pumps (sorry it's in litres and meters, not gallons and feet) but you get the point . In my experience pumping water up from my basement, just to do water changes, it's better to buy more pump than you think you need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, tolstoy21 said: At maximum head height you're not going to get anywhere near the stated flow rate, which is typically measured at 0 feet. A lot of pump manufacturers will usually have charts available that will show you the flow rate drop off as you reach maximum head pressure height. For instance, here are the specs for the Syncra Silent pumps (sorry it's in litres and meters, not gallons and feet) but you get the point . In my experience pumping water up from my basement, just to do water changes, it's better to buy more pump than you think you need. I assumed that meant it was going to flow 660 at 12.5 head height. I didn't see that you're probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Puhr Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I am not an expert but I feel like you would almost need a basement sump pump to really propel the water up. The one I have for my house shoots water up about 9 feet before going through the regular plumbing to the storm sewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Something like the Sicce ADV 10 or a higher priced Iwaki external pump will work. Most likely a basement sump setup will require a more expensive pump solution. I would avoid utility sump pumps as they can leak oil and aren’t meant for potable water. I used one for a water reservoir once and after sitting in the water for a day the water took on a faint fuel or machine oil smell. The only utility pump I trust for aquarium water use (and not waste water use) is the sicce ultra zero, but it doesn’t have super strong head pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_RF Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Thank you for this thread y'all. I am interested in this thread, as I know very little about sump setups but I do work in plumbing. 🙂 I am not sure if this helps or not, but 1" pvc pipe for supply when used in plumbing often supplies homes that have a large distance than what you are describing needing coverage. I would imagine a 3/4" would be reasonable, plus it would help keep the pressure higher. I am assuming pex isn't really an option due to common brass, copper, or galvanized fittings. If it is an option, it might be worth considering as it has degree of flexibility to it. Also it sounds like @tolstoy21 from what I can tell is spot on. Edited February 11, 2021 by Ben_RF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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