Super Red Bristlenose Pleco eggs kicked out of cave

[gardenman]

As has happened before my Super Red Bristlenose plecos have kicked the eggs out of their cave, so the kicked out eggs have been moved to an external breeder box to finish maturing. I've got about fifty eggs in this batch and papa pleco is already guarding a new clutch of eggs in the cave, so I guess he decided these were mature enough to survive on their own outside the cave. The eggs are pretty far along as you can see the backbone and fairly well developed babies in the eggs. They're probably a day or two from hatching. They've got six caves in the tank but really like one more than the rest and always seem to breed in that one. I'm guessing another male dispossessed the male that was in there and tossed his eggs out and then brought in his lady friend to lay fresh eggs.  Not a big deal. The eggs are in good shape and should hatch in the external breeder box and I'll raise them there until they're big enough to rejoin the group. These guys are so easy to breed and so prolific that I truly wonder why their prices are so high. Out of the fiftyish eggs, I should get 30+ plecos, maybe more. This is probably the fifth breeding of this colony since April. Most of the time I just leave the babies in the tank and the swordtails pick off most of the young fry as I don't need a gazillion of them, but these will get raised externally. I've got 30+ of the Super Red Bristlenose plecos in my 50 gallon tank and two or three in most of my other tanks. Local pet shops sell them for $30-$40 each which is kind of crazy given how prolific and easy to raise they are. The parents are from catfishtown on eBay. I got them August 2019 and they started breeding in April 2020. I'd like to get a breeding colony in each of my tanks. They're a pretty neat little fish.

[Fish Folk]

That’s neat! Do you put a lot of wood in the tanks with them? Ours loved hitting slightly boiled zucchini (green squash) pieces. When the slices are boiled, they sink. Ancistrus are arch-survivors! 

[gardenman]

I've got Malaysian driftwood in one tank with them and some Wish driftwood (looks like grape vine) in another tank. Mine love green beans and Tubifex worms. I've tried them on Zucchini and cucumbers and they just ignore them. The same with algae wafers. I've tried several varieties with them and they'll eventually eat them, but they're not passionate about them. They also love shrimp pellets. First thing every morning the whole tank gets some flake food and I put shrimp pellets in each front corner and I've got plecos lining up in the corners for the shrimp pellets. In the afternoon the tanks get more flakes/frozen food and the freeze-dried Tubifex worm cubes (3 or 4 cubes depending on my mood) get pressed on the front glass. There are usually three or four plecos hanging out  where the cubes go and as soon as the first one is pressed into place, they're swarming over it. They get so aggressive going after the cubes that they tend to knock them off the glass before they get to eat them all. I've tried them on Repashy, but they seem largely uninterested in it. I go through a full can of green beans a week with them and I could probably go through two or three if I kept dumping them in. They get the $0.50 cans of green beans from Walmart and they seem to love them. They're pretty neat fish. The nice thing is the babies eat what the adults eat. Once the yolk sacs are absorbed, they just chomp down whatever you feed the big guys/gals. They're arguably the easiest baby fish to feed. I'll just plop a green bean, a couple of shrimp pellets, and a small corner of a cube of Tubifex in and they'll be happy as can be and chomp away.

They grow pretty quickly. My first batch from April are now sexually mature and starting to show signs of breeding. My biggest guys/gals are about three to four inches long now and they were maybe an inch or so long when I got them. They're a very impressive little pleco. Not great on algae though. I still have to scrape the glass despite there being about thirty plecos in my bigger tank. (I maybe feeding them too much stuff they like more than algae.)

[gardenman]

For anyone wondering what a brand new, just hatched Super Red Bristlenose Pleco looks like, here's a photo of the first of my fifty-ish (probably more) babies. I'm also including a photo of the breeding box with the somewhat algae covered piece of Anubias Nana Petite, the air stone and the rest of the as yet, unhatched eggs which should be hatching over the next day or two. The little guy is mostly clear, about a quarter of an inch long and about 70% yolk sac and 30% fish. He or she will be absorbing the yolk sac over the next few days then getting more free swimming and start looking for real food. The Anubias has enough algae and gunk on it to give them some nibbles between feedings and I'll be giving them lots of food options once the yolk sac is absorbed. (I've tried counting the eggs in the photos and while impossible to get an exact count, I'm pretty sure there are more than fifty.) So, we'll have to see how many survive, but my success rate with these guys/gals is typically pretty high. 

[gardenman]

We're up to nine hatched out this morning at 10:30 AM with many more to come. For those who think I'm exaggerating about the 70% yolk sac and 30% fish, here's a photo of one of the newly hatched out guys/gals already putting their sucker mouth to work on the side of the breeding box. That huge orange blob is the yolk sac. The little sliver of flesh is the fish. The rest of the eggs all look very good and you can see the little eyes of the unhatched plecos and their spine through the egg cases. They should all be hatched over the next 24 hours or so. 

[gardenman]

And the eggs have all hatched this morning and there are about 67 baby Super Red Bristlenose plecos now hanging out in the breeder box. (I say about 67 as even counting them in the photos is challenging and I'm likely to have miscount a little bit.) There appear to be no unhatched eggs which is good. I'll go in later and remove the empty shells but there are too many baby plecos too close to the empties right now to make that easy. They'll spread out across the breeder box as the day goes on and I'll then swoop in with an old baster and suck out the empties. I'll start adding a little bit (emphasis on little bit) of food starting tomorrow in case they start feeding before fully absorbing the yolk sac, but the algae on the plant gives them some food also. Here's a photo of the whole blob all hatched out and distributed through the breeder box. These are arguably the easiest fish in the world to spawn and raise. 

[Maggie]

They are positively adorable!! I've never seen such a clear closeup of a newly hatched fish. Congratulations! 

[gardenman]

13 minutes ago, Maggie said:

They are positively adorable!! I've never seen such a clear closeup of a newly hatched fish. Congratulations! 

They're really neat to observe at this size as they're pretty much see through. You can see their tiny little two chamber heart beating away through the yolk sac. You can see the tiny little veins running through the yolk sac. They're like a living biology lab in front of you. I sit on the floor watching them for far too long each day. Their sucker mouth is fully developed already and they hang onto whatever surface is available.

A lot of baby fish don't eat until the yolk sac is completely absorbed, but plecos, being the ravenous beasts that they are, will often start eating even before the yolk sac is absorbed, so you've got to be prepared for that. My phone camera (Moto G7 Optimo Maxx) does a decent job of getting images, but not quite good enough to catch the heart beating. Mind you I am shooting through plastic at something about a 64th of an inch in size (if that when I'm talking about the heart). It's fascinating to watch though. One side beats and empties out then the other side beats and empties out and then back to the first. 

I'll add a tiny sliver of Repashy Soilent Green to the tank tomorrow and see if they show any interest. Later on green beans, algae wafers, tubifex worms, shrimp pellets, maybe some frozen baby brine shrimp, will get tried out. With 67-ish babies in there I don't have to worry a lot about overfeeding once they start eating. Keeping them fed is the bigger challenge then. They're now maybe a quarter of an inch long. In a month or so they'll be about a half inch long. When they get about three-quarters of an inch long I'll start shifting them to the 20 gallon tank behind them for their grow out tank. I've got some bigger corys in there and some neon swordtails, so I'll need some decent size on them before moving them.

I have a mesh breeder also that will go inside the tank and I'll transfer some to that as they get a bit bigger. The mesh breeders though can have adult fish picking the babies off from the outside and eating them through the net. That's not as big of an issue with free swimming fish, but with guys who will be lying on the net like a pleco or a cory, it becomes more of an issue. Once they get about a half-inch or so long then they should be safe in the mesh net. 

I'll likely lose a few along the way, but for now, all 67-ish look good and healthy. 

[gardenman]

And here's a new close-up (still a bit blurry) but you can see the little red dot and the veins. The red dot is the heart that you can see pumping away in person. And there are more than I'd originally counted as I've found more hiding all over the tank. I'd put the number of fry at closer to 80-100 now. It's a big spawn. For perspective on the size, the fry are maybe a quarter of an inch long. You can see how small the heart is relative to the size of the fry.

[gardenman]

Just an update if anyone's interested. The baby plecos are doing great. Most of the yolk sac has now been absorbed. They're now more like 70% fish and 30% yolk sac. A few are even more fish than that. There have only been three casualties and those were fry that hatched out inside the egg mass and apparently couldn't escape. It wasn't until I was removing the old eggs that I found them. The airstone has been removed from the breeder box and the air-driven water supply tube inserted to send fresh aquarium water to the fry. The airstone is better for circulating water around the eggs, but now the babies are pretty close to starting to eat and then poop, so connecting them to the big tank's biofilter is now more important. The exit gate for the water has the fine grate on it and also a piece of filter material to stop any babies from deciding to  head for the big tank. I've added a small piece of slate leaning against the wall of the breeder box to give them a cave-like place to hang out, but they tend to cluster together in a corner of the box instead. About six take advantage of the cave now.

The first little (emphasis on little) piece of Repashy Soilent Green has been added. No apparent interest in it just yet, but in a few days they should really start feeding. I'd collected a big bag of old maple tree leaves a few years back to experiment with as a replacement for Indian Almond leaves, but I never got around to doing anything with them so one of them has been added to the breeder box. We'll see if they nibble on that or not in the coming days. I've got some Cholla wood coming from Amazon and if any of it is small enough, it'll go in there also. I may have to cut/break off a piece.

The babies are now about 3/8" long and filling out a bit. No apparent albinos in the group as there are lots of black eyes staring back at me whenever I get down to watch them, but no red eyes. Still impossible to get a real count on the number of babies but 80+ is a reasonable estimate. A few are getting more adventurous and starting to free swim a bit more away from the pack. That will increase in the coming days.  Right now about ninety percent of the fry are in about five percent of the breeder box. In a few days they'll be all over the place. There's this orange wriggling blob now in the right front corner of the breeder box but in a few more days they'll spread out all over the box. I've got an in-tank net breeder ready to go when they get more adventurous to move some to, to prevent the breeder box from becoming too crazy. You just have to be careful with the net breeders as some fish learn to peck at babies from the outside of the net and suck them through the net. It's not as big of an issue with free swimming fish, but for bottom dwellers like plecos and corys who are likely always on the net, it can be an issue. Once these guys get to a half inch or so and fill out a bit it's not as big of an issue. I've got two papa plecos guarding new clutches of eggs in the big tank, but those guys/gals will be on their own. Typically, only three or four survive to adult size in the big tank due to the swarm of swordtails in there. The other plecos don't bother the fry but the small fry are like candy to the swordtails. 

[gardenman]

Here's a not so great photo from yesterday showing the babies in the remodeled breeder box. They're piled up four and five deep in the right front corner of the box, but you can see eight on the slate. Over the next few days the yolk sacs should disappear completely and they'll become eating machines. The tank water is now going into the box at a slow pace of about a teaspoon per second. (Measured by holding a teaspoon under the outlet of the breeder box.) That's decent water flow, but not too crazy. This is the Marina breeder box by the way. Amazon now sells an Ista box that looks the same. Finnex makes a similar box but theirs has a  pump to move the water which would probably move too much water too fast for many baby fish. The baby plecos might be okay but other fry would have a hard time.

[gardenman]

The babies are all taking advantage of the slate cave this morning and that made counting a tad easier. The photos below show the horde as shot and then the next one with the black dots indicate each individual fish as I counted them for a total of 108 baby Super Red Bristlenose Plecos. That's more than I'd thought. They're starting to eat real food now so the feeding will have to keep pace with their appetites.

[Steph’s Fish and Plants]

Wow there’s so much information! That’s awesome. Will you be selling the fry somehow? Someone mentioned above about them being expensive. My LFS has calico bristlenose but not super reds, and the only super reds I find online are 80+ on aquabid. If anyone knows of a cheaper source that would be great. I also would rather get a pair if possible but I’m fine with groups of juveniles if need be. I’d love to be able to work with the super red plecos.

[Casual aquatics]

Shipping ? 🤷‍♂️🤔

[gardenman]

1 hour ago, Steph’s Fish and Plants said:

Wow there’s so much information! That’s awesome. Will you be selling the fry somehow? Someone mentioned above about them being expensive. My LFS has calico bristlenose but not super reds, and the only super reds I find online are 80+ on aquabid. If anyone knows of a cheaper source that would be great. I also would rather get a pair if possible but I’m fine with groups of juveniles if need be. I’d love to be able to work with the super red plecos.

I'll probably try trading them with a few local fish stores. I bought mine on eBay through a seller called catfishtown in August 2019. They were three for $19.99 and he had a buy one pack get one free sale, so I got six (seven actually as he threw in a spare) for around $35 after shipping costs. They spawned for the first time in April 2020 (or so). They had around twenty babies in that first spawn and they've been spawning off and on ever since. I typically just leave the eggs and fry in the big tank and let whoever survives survive. Papa pleco kicked these eggs out for some reason, so I scooped them up and moved them to the breeder box. It'll take about four to six months to reach a tradeable size, but then I'll see who offers what in local fish stores. I've got about thirty now in my big tank and most of them are two to three inches long. They're a very neat little fish. 

[gardenman]

The cholla wood is very popular with the fry. It's been in the breeder box about two hours and it's stuffed full of baby plecos. 

[Wesley]

Thats a massive spawn you got there. Seperate the parents if you don't want another spawn. I've had parents spawning every 3-5 weeks for a couple months.

[gardenman]

It's surprising to see the price charged for these guys in pet shops given the ease in spawning them and rearing the fry. At normal retail around here my hundred plus in the breeder box would retail for between $3,000-$4,000 once they hit the two inch mark. They're tough little fish who don't need babying or coddling, no special water requirements, no special care, other than the right food. Compared to rearing other fry, these guys are pretty easy to rear.

[Wesley]

10 hours ago, gardenman said:

It's surprising to see the price charged for these guys in pet shops given the ease in spawning them and rearing the fry. At normal retail around here my hundred plus in the breeder box would retail for between $3,000-$4,000 once they hit the two inch mark. They're tough little fish who don't need babying or coddling, no special water requirements, no special care, other than the right food. Compared to rearing other fry, these guys are pretty easy to rear.

Im not sure what the price in store are and what the wholesale price is. But its all about calculating in the price of food / water / heating / rent. The longer the fish stays in the store the less profit is made. Im not an expert on the fish market in the us but generally people dont buy these fish by the dozen unlike say tetras.

And sometimes you just have to be lucky indeed to get good genetics that have big spawns of them.

Would be interesting to hear from @Cory what fish are cashcows and others that have little profit margins individually but larger volumes.

[gardenman]

It's been a week since the last update, so I'm letting anyone interested know the babies are still doing great. They're about 5/8" long now and eating like little horses. I don't believe I've lost any. If I have, they ate the dead before I could find it. There are a lot, and I mean a lot of baby plecos in that breeder box. They're getting a dime-sized piece of Repashy Soilent Green every morning and night. The Repashy is about 1/4" thick and it's gone within a few hours. They also get green beans, a little flake food, a couple of Wardley shrimp pellets, and occasionally a few pellets of TetraColor granules. Their value as algae eaters is essentially zero as the walls of the breeder box are getting algae covered and they couldn't be bothered to clean them. Today is three weeks since papa pleco kicked the eggs out of the cave and I moved the eggs to the breeder box. In another week or two I'll move some of them to a mesh breeder inside the tank. There's pretty much no risk of any fish eating them through the netting at this point.  They're close to being big enough to go in the tank, but swordtails (the other fish in that tank) can eat pretty big stuff, so I'll get them a bit bigger. Keeping baby fish in a more confined space but with a large volume of water makes it easier for them to find food and thus grow faster as long as they're not too over crowded.  I'll post a photo below of them. I took out the slate, but left the Anubias, cholla wood, and maple tree leaf. The slate was making it too hard to see what was happening and in later days they were just avoiding it anyway. The water flow through the box has now been increased to about two teaspoons a second and the babies are big enough now that I was able to remove the filtering material from the outlet and just rely on the grate to keep the babies in the box.

[gardenman]

In the immortal word of Yogi Berra, "It's deja vu all over again!" Yes, another batch of eggs has been kicked out of the preferred breeding cave. A smaller batch this time, but still a considerable number. (Photo below.) The first group of baby plecos are now about an inch long and starting to move out into the twenty high their breeder box is hooked on. I took off the grate that keeps them trapped in the breeder box and five (at least) have transitioned to the big tank. There are still about a hundred or so in the breeder box however along with roughly a gazillion snails. The newly expelled eggs are now in a net breeder due to the breeder box being well above rated capacity. I have to order another breeder box for the new kids. The net breeder works, but is a bit riskier as fish can peck through the netting at the babies. I'll be lining it with some thin pieces of slate to give them a more secure bottom, but predation will still be an issue. The swordtails they share the tank with find baby plecos with yolk sacs an irresistible treat. There are still some eggs in the preferred breeding cave and papa pleco is fanning away at them, so this could be the case of another jealous female kicking the eggs out and replacing them with her own. So, about six weeks after the last batch, I've got a whole new batch of fry to raise without papa pleco's help. Maybe he's kicking them out on purpose so I get to tend the kids instead of him? Clever fish! These are still a few days from hatching and aren't quite as developed as the first batch were when evicted. That gives me time to order a new breeder box and get it set up. 

[gardenman]

And the eggs that papa pleco had been guarding yesterday are now kicked out, but he's got yet another new batch of fresh eggs in the cave and I've got the eggs he just kicked out in the net breeder with the ones kicked out yesterday. Good thing I ordered the larger hang on breeder box. I'm going to need it.

[gardenman]

Fed-Ex managed to either lose my new breeder box or delivered it to someone else as I didn't get it. That's really annoying. They swore they delivered it at 3:02 today and handed it directly to me. Uh, no. So, now I've got to wait until Fed-Ex and the guys I bought it from sort out how to get me another one. Fed-Ex is horrible here. By far the sketchiest delivery service in my area. Other people in other parts of the country swear by them. I more swear at them.

[ChileMan]

Awesome thread.  I just today found eggs laying in the middle of my tank with snails attacking them… very young ancistrus wabenmuster eggs if I’m correct.

put them in a dip n pour and added meth blue and an air stone… looking forward to the coming days.

Edited June 13, 2021 by ChileMan

[gardenman]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:59 PM, ChileMan said:

Awesome thread.  I just today found eggs laying in the middle of my tank with snails attacking them… very young ancistrus wabenmuster eggs if I’m correct.

put them in a dip n pour and added meth blue and an air stone… looking forward to the coming days.

The eggs look good. It won't be long before you have a lot of pleco fry. It's fun to raise them up.