Problem: overfeeding some fish, starving others.

[clownbaby]

At this point I am unsure if there are any true solutions other than getting a seperate tank for my pygmy cories, but I will ask just in case there is something I am doing wrong. 

I have five black neon tetras. Getting four or five more TODAY (!!!) and perhaps a couple more pygmy cories if the store has em. I currently have seven pygmy cories. Also one oto. its a 30 gallon tank. I would like a few more otos as well but that will come with time once I have a stable algae culture. 

Here is my issue. I feed live foods pretty much exclusively to my fish. Part of this is to induce breeding (which has almost worked a couple times, but my black neons are very fond of munching on the eggs) and otherwise it's just because I enjoy watching the fish display their natural behaviors. I try to feed my pygmy cories live foods as well -- mainly grindal worms. I got a new culture going and it is definitely much more healthy. Sometimes I will feed repashy gel food, sometimes daphnia. But no matter what I feed the pygmy cories, it seems like the black neons hog it all. They will chase the cories away, steal food out of their mouths, eat it all before it even gets noticed by the cories, you name it. I've tried feeding the black neons at the same time in one corner and sneaking the cories food in a hiding spot -- doesn't matter. They end up getting to the cories food first. And at this point my tetras are wayyyy overfed and fat while my cories barely get anything. I do have microfauna -- I've seen scuds at times but my neons hunt them like crazy, lots of tubifex worms -- so in addition to diatoms I believe m pygmys are only eating tubifex and diatoms. And they are certainly not eating enough. Breaks my heart. Also makes me concerned because my black neons really need to eat less. 

So, that's my situation. Is it the stocking problem? Do I just need to separate them and have my cories in a different tank? My only other idea would be increasing the numbers, which I will do today. But still, I feel worried. Any advice is very much appreciated.

UPDATE:

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Edited Monday at 10:42 PM by clownbaby
edit: update

[Tlindsey]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:10 AM, clownbaby said:

that's my situation. Is it the stocking problem? Do I just need to separate them and have my cories in a different tank? My only other idea would be increasing the numbers, which I will do today. But still, I feel worried. Any advice is very much appreciated.

1. Only a stocking problem if the pygmy corydoras don't get enough food to survive. 2. If pygmy corydoras start to look malnourished and you start to lose a couple. I would suggest separate the two. 3. I wouldn't increase the number of neons. I think that probably would make the feeding situation worse. @clownbaby

[clownbaby]

On 9/21/2024 at 8:57 AM, Tlindsey said:

1. Only a stocking problem if the pygmy corydoras don't get enough food to survive. 2. If pygmy corydoras start to look malnourished and you start to lose a couple. I would suggest separate the two. 3. I wouldn't increase the number of neons. I think that probably would make the feeding situation worse. @clownbaby

I lost one pygmy recently from what I believe was stress (had to net them and move them temporarily into a different tank) but I don't think they aren't getting enough food to survive. But they all are definitely  underfed. Would increasing the numbers of the pygmy cories help at all? Should I just let it be? I will be heading to the shop in three hours to help my mom pick out her betta, and while I was there I planned to get a few more fish if they had them. Petco is hit or miss - sometimes they have large numbers of pygmy cories, other times they act like they've never heard of em lol.  

[Tlindsey]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:02 PM, clownbaby said:

I lost one pygmy recently from what I believe was stress (had to net them and move them temporarily into a different tank) but I don't think they aren't getting enough food to survive. But they all are definitely  underfed. Would increasing the numbers of the pygmy cories help at all? Should I just let it be? I will be heading to the shop in three hours to help my mom pick out her betta, and while I was there I planned to get a few more fish if they had them. Petco is hit or miss - sometimes they have large numbers of pygmy cories, other times they act like they've never heard of em lol.  

Let it be for awhile observe. If things get better then add more pygmy corydoras. Have you considered target feeding? I personally have a 2" width section of pvc pipe I use for target feeding. Don't know the exact length but target fed fish in a 40 breeder and a 55 gallon. I also was thinking of dropping a little food for the pygmy corydoras after lights out. 

[HelplessNewbie]

I totally agree with @Tlindsey. 

Check out ideas for the feeding tube here.

Here is my implementation of the target feeding. I later added mesh to the bottom end, so no fish can get stuck there. I drop food in and flush it down while the tetras are having a frenzy up front. Or, I drop food when lights are off.

I use the same system for the 20 gallon long with pygmy cory, cherry tetra and Bolivian ram. The pipe in the back left is in an area the tetra don't typically like to hang near, so that's how the pygmy get the bulk of the food. I also crush the dry food into a powder and swish in the water in many places for the cory and ram to sift from the sand later on.

[clownbaby]

On 9/21/2024 at 9:36 AM, HelplessNewbie said:

I totally agree with @Tlindsey. 

Check out ideas for the feeding tube here.

Here is my implementation of the target feeding. I later added mesh to the bottom end, so no fish can get stuck there. I drop food in and flush it down while the tetras are having a frenzy up front. Or, I drop food when lights are off.

I use the same system for the 20 gallon long with pygmy cory, cherry tetra and Bolivian ram. The pipe in the back left is in an area the tetra don't typically like to hang near, so that's how the pygmy get the bulk of the food. I also crush the dry food into a powder and swish in the water in many places for the cory and ram to sift from the sand later on.

This could work great honestly. How much dried food do you use? I have a dirted clay/mulm bottom on my tank that my cories love to sift through (that's when they end up eating the tubifex worms), so I think until I could find a way to realistically feed my cories live foods (which is not right now or anytime soon) this could work great. I've fed them sinking shrimp pellets before that they liked quite a bit. I had to crush these up because of their tiny mouths haha. 

I have a solid clean up crew of my mystery snail, oto, tubifex and malaysian trumpet snails -- but I still wouldn't want to foul my water by having food rot in the dirt. So how much would you advise for me to feed? I am not the best with portion control and it took me a longggg time to figure out how much of different live foods to feed so when it comes to dry food I am kinda clueless

[HelplessNewbie]

When I feed Xtreme Nano Pellets, it isn't much, maybe 1/32t each tube and by swish method. So. total 3/32t.  I have 15 to 20 pygmy. They get this 6 times a week, with Friday as a skip day. I supplement with live daphnia, grindal worms, frozen bbs and occasionally dried tubifex.

That reminds me, you can also try a feeding station. Make it so that only the pygmy cory can get in and out.

As you can see, I left too much of a gap around the inlet side, so the endler got in. I had to let it out then fixed the inlet. I don't have photos, but I swear it works for the pygmy.

I think I got the idea from @Odd Duckor @Guppysnail.

I found a video!

Edited September 21 by HelplessNewbie

[clownbaby]

update:

thank you all for the advice! I won't pick up any additional fishes today. I do want to increase my numbers but I also don't want to starve my fish. 

I am going to try out a feeding station! I really hope this will work because I only have a 5 gallon at the moment (however if need be I could get silicone and fix up a ten gal, but not ideal) and would prefer not to have to move my cories into that tank, especially once there is a betta in there. so thank you everyone really, if you have any more tips I would also appreciate it but I am going to try this for now and hope it works!

[Guppysnail]

On 9/21/2024 at 2:15 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

When I feed Xtreme Nano Pellets, it isn't much, maybe 1/32t each tube and by swish method. So. total 3/32t.  I have 15 to 20 pygmy. They get this 6 times a week, with Friday as a skip day. I supplement with live daphnia, grindal worms, frozen bbs and occasionally dried tubifex.

That reminds me, you can also try a feeding station. Make it so that only the pygmy cory can get in and out.

As you can see, I left too much of a gap around the inlet side, so the endler got in. I had to let it out then fixed the inlet. I don't have photos, but I swear it works for the pygmy.

I think I got the idea from @Odd Duckor @Guppysnail.

I found a video!

That had to be @Odd Duck  my Pygmy are FATSOS. I just use fry food grindle worms live bbs and tiny grain Ken’s. 
mine do fine competing against 25 CPD 40 Melini and 2 plecos and their babies. 
I’ll add using food to small for others to care about is a good approach 

my Pygmy spawn reliably…a little to reliably using this method. 

[Odd Duck]

I made a fish trap but haven’t converted anything to a feeding station.  I would definitely use feeding tubes to get food down to pygmies with that much competition.  I have used clear rigid tubing to target feed bottom feeders and you could direct food into a small cave that would suit the cories but not the tetras.  Feeding right before lights out would also help since the tetras are less likely to eat in the dark but it wouldn’t bother the cories at all to eat after lights out.  If you use an opaque tube like a PVC pipe, the tetras wouldn’t see the Grindal worms and such going down the tube so they would be less likely to steal food from the cories as long as they were fed surface foods first and got plenty to eat while then letting Grindals or other live foods get down to the cories.  You can cut the bottom of the tube at a slant so you can see when the food gets down to the bottom.  You could even get fancy and use soft tubing to connect PVC to a short piece of clear tubing to make it easier to see the food drop down at the bottom.  😆 

I also use syringes with a short piece of airline to connect to a longer piece of rigid airline to target feed.  It’s also useful for targeting algae with peroxide.  You can use whatever length of rigid tubing you need to get the food where you want it.  Since I rinse my Grindals in water before feeding I just slurp them right up through the tubing and squirt them where I want them to go.

 

Edited September 21 by Odd Duck
Add more info.

[clownbaby]

I made a slow-feeder that seems to do the trick! 

Me and my dad made it. He had a semi-transparent plastic pipe that was about 1 1/4 inch diameter. I attached an enclosed cage/net which is attached to a smaller transparent plastic pipe (3/4 - 1 inch diameter) which then connects to the strainer and base of a small 5-10 gallon sponge filter. Then the worms can wiggle out. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes for the worms to reach the bottom and actually into the tank. I placed this in the area the cories usually hang out, and they seem to understand! 

I have already fed grindal worms. As @Odd Duck suggested, I used a little syringe to suck em up and then shot em down the pipe. Worked great! The tetras can't see the worms in the first pipe. Once the worms make it through the cage they fall down the see-through pipe. The see-through pipe is about 4 or 5 inches above the ground and is at relative eye level to where the cories like to lay. Then the cories see the worms wiggling and start to get excited and ready to eat, and the tetras are still clueless, and then as the worms wiggle out the sponge filter strainer the cories actually get to run up and eat em!

I am SO thankful for ALL OF YOUR help. I was really at a loss and had ran out of options, I was ready to just separate them completely. But this seems to work great! I saw one of the tetras grab a worm, but I am not concerned at all. The cories got 20, the tetra got one. So be it! (The tetra is cleaning up the bottom dweller's mess! Hah!)

If the tetras start to eat more worms I will just feed right as I turn the lights off. I am pretty confident this will solve the problem. If not, distract the tetras >:] 

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!!!

[HelplessNewbie]

Please share a photo of the rig, that sounds awesome!