Advice needed: did a fish in cycle before knowing better

[Manringjk]

Okay so I, being the type of person with the “too much gene” bought a tank and fish and set it up same day, around a month ago. I have a 20g with hob filter, heater and lights. It is moderately planted. When I was doing all of this, I was totally unaware of the dangers of fish in cycling.  

Of course, being a dive head first into hobbies type of person, I joined discussion groups and did some reading and learned that I may have made some critical errors in doing a fish in cycle. To this point, I have lost 2 fish (a dwarf gourami and a pea puffer). I started doing water tests  because of this and had the values below. To my eye, nitrates and nitrites are at 0, pH at 7-7.5, kH ~40 and gH 180. 

Where I am getting lost and confused is about what the water parameters should be in my situation and what to do next re: water changes, ammonia removers, etc. It seems to me that my remaining fish are doing well, the fish bought from big box stores (rookie error, didn’t know at the time 😖) are coloring up and the ones from my LFS (finally figured that part out) aren’t showing any signs of stress. 

TIA,

a confused but eager new fish parent

[Zenzo]

Don't be hard on yourself. We all made errors when starting the hobby. The fact that your tank is now a month old and has live plants is a good thing, and I wouldn't worry too much. Just keep up on testing the water for the next few weeks to make sure that there aren't any big swings in parameters. Getting an ammonia test kit would be ideal, as the multi kit doesn't test for that. 

Glad to see that you jumped in headfirst and are enjoying the hobby!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:59 AM, Manringjk said:

I started doing water tests  because of this and had the values below. To my eye, nitrates and nitrites are at 0, pH at 7-7.5, kH ~40 and gH 180. 

Where I am getting lost and confused is about what the water parameters should be in my situation and what to do next re: water changes, ammonia removers, etc. It seems to me that my remaining fish are doing well, the fish bought from big box stores (rookie error, didn’t know at the time 😖) are coloring up and the ones from my LFS (finally figured that part out) aren’t showing any signs of stress. 

Coloring up is definitely a great sign.

There's two things that I would always encourage anyone to sanity check on their tanks, Filtration and KH. 

Yep, ammonia and nitrite should be zero, but if you happen to use an active substrate, you absorb KH into the soil and then you are left with very unstable water until you "cycle" the substrate and charge it up.  You are showing kh, but it's slightly low.  This means that we should double check the tap and see what KH should be, then we can adjust method accordingly. (Let's shoot for something like 50-80 as a minimum KH if possible)

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

The second thing we would want to check mentioned is filtration. Basically how is it setup, how is the Hob setup and is it good to go in future. We want to avoid something like a cartridge and go towards something reusable like sponge for mechanical filtration. The secondary thing often recommended for stability is to have some sort of biological filtration media, be it rings or biomax, matrix, etc.

Lastly, welcome. Welcome to the forums and welcome to the hobby. Happy to have you here and it'll be great to see your journey unfold.

Edited December 29, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Tlindsey]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:59 AM, Manringjk said:

Okay so I, being the type of person with the “too much gene” bought a tank and fish and set it up same day, around a month ago. I have a 20g with hob filter, heater and lights. It is moderately planted. When I was doing all of this, I was totally unaware of the dangers of fish in cycling.  

Of course, being a dive head first into hobbies type of person, I joined discussion groups and did some reading and learned that I may have made some critical errors in doing a fish in cycle. To this point, I have lost 2 fish (a dwarf gourami and a pea puffer). I started doing water tests  because of this and had the values below. To my eye, nitrates and nitrites are at 0, pH at 7-7.5, kH ~40 and gH 180. 

Where I am getting lost and confused is about what the water parameters should be in my situation and what to do next re: water changes, ammonia removers, etc. It seems to me that my remaining fish are doing well, the fish bought from big box stores (rookie error, didn’t know at the time 😖) are coloring up and the ones from my LFS (finally figured that part out) aren’t showing any signs of stress. 

TIA,

a confused but eager new fish parent

@Manringjk Welcome aboard 

[Manringjk]

Thank you!!! Very excited to be here 

[Manringjk]

On 12/29/2023 at 11:58 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Coloring up is definitely a great sign.

There's two things that I would always encourage anyone to sanity check on their tanks, Filtration and KH. 

Yep, ammonia and nitrite should be zero, but if you happen to use an active substrate, you absorb KH into the soil and then you are left with very unstable water until you "cycle" the substrate and charge it up.  You are showing kh, but it's slightly low.  This means that we should double check the tap and see what KH should be, then we can adjust method accordingly. (Let's shoot for something like 50-80 as a minimum KH if possible)

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

The second thing we would want to check mentioned is filtration. Basically how is it setup, how is the Hob setup and is it good to go in future. We want to avoid something like a cartridge and go towards something reusable like sponge for mechanical filtration. The secondary thing often recommended for stability is to have some sort of biological filtration media, be it rings or biomax, matrix, etc.

Lastly, welcome. Welcome to the forums and welcome to the hobby. Happy to have you here and it'll be great to see your journey unfold.

This was extremely helpful, thank you!

[Galabar]

After a month, there is a good chance that the tank has been cycled.  As other have said, get an ammonia test.  If that is zero (and your nitrites are already 0), you should be good.

The "modern" approach to the hobby is to use an ammonia source other than fish to cycle.  Also, now that you have a cycled tank, your next tank will cycle much more quickly if you bring over filter media from your current tank.

[lefty o]

nothing wrong with doing fish in. fact is, anybody could have lost those 2 fish no matter their approach to getting a tank going. sometimes fish you buy just dont make it.

[Galabar]

I found this interesting:

 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Nothing wrong with a fish in cycle, as long as you manage it appropriately in my opinion. We all start somewhere! Mistakes are just learning opportunities 👍. 
 

The forum is full of friendly people who simply want to help others succeed. Let us know what other questions you have and we’ll guide you to the best of our ability!

Edited December 30, 2023 by AllFishNoBrakes

[Galabar]

Another great video for the OPs next tank (and anyone else interested). 🙂

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Galabar

[jwcarlson]

I fish-in cycle everything including up to hundreds of dollars worth of fish.  It might not be ideal for a brand new aquarist, but it's not the worst thing in the world.  As stated above, some fish are just in bad shape when you get them.  

Do you happen to have a "water softener", @Manringjk?

[Galabar]

One question: did you do any water changes over that first month?

[Pepere]

Fish poo is a great source for seeding beneficial bacteria. I believe a fish in cycle progresses much faster than a fishless cycle with bacteria in a bottle products…

The concern is of course the exposure to Ammonia and nitrites the fish are eposed to in the process.

Frequent water changes can mitigate that risk.

[Tanked]

I've always done fish in cycle. My opinion is that it gets a bad rap because of too many fish in the uncycled tank.   When I plan on buying from a big box store, I make several visits.  I watch for dead fish, and how many fish, dead and alive, are in the all of the tanks.  Multiple dead fish means they are not being properly cared for.  

[Manringjk]

 

On 12/30/2023 at 12:24 AM, Galabar said:

One question: did you do any water changes over that first month?

I did I believe one small water change in that month. I tested the ammonia this morning and got a 0 and the tank looks lovely and clear. I realized today that I had added a moss covered coco husk from a friends mature tank. I think I stumbled On kick starting the seeding of the beneficial bacteria without even realizing it 

[jwcarlson]

Yeah, every little bit helps get it rolling and bacteria multiplies quick.  Probably still still rough parameters for a bit, though.  Which may have stressed the two you lost.

[Galabar]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:24 AM, Manringjk said:

 

I did I believe one small water change in that month. I tested the ammonia this morning and got a 0 and the tank looks lovely and clear. I realized today that I had added a moss covered coco husk from a friends mature tank. I think I stumbled On kick starting the seeding of the beneficial bacteria without even realizing it 

Most likely that led to a high level of ammonia, which probably killed the fish.  Some fish are more tolerant of ammonia than others.  Folks refer to things like guppies and platys as "starter fish" because they seem to be able to tolerate ammonia a bit better (but probably also because they are cheaper).  I'm not sure where pea puffers and dwarf gouramis fall on that spectrum. 

Something to point out is that every single one of us on this forum has killed at least some fish from ammonia.  It may have been when we were new to the hobby and set up a new tank, when, as more experiences hobbyists, we were in a hurry when doing something with a tank, or it might have been a random, unexplained ammonia spike (it's almost always the ammonia).

Somewhat recently, I've killed fish by assuming that if I started a new tank with lots of plants and filter media from an established tank, things would be safe.  They weren't.  There is no substitute for testing every day and not adding fish until the tank is cycled or "seasoned" to the point where an ammonia spike is unlikely.  I've also somewhat recently killed fish by introducing new fish to an established tank.  I did it because the source (ACO) quarantine their fish, but even with them, it's possible to introduce an illness to your tank.  So, now, all new fish go into quarantine when I get them.  You live and learn.  For most hobbyist (including myself), you have to experience a negative consequence before you attempt to avoid it in the future.

The good news is that your tank looks to be cycled and you look to be someone who is interested in researching and doing the best you can for your fish.

Going forward, the things to focus on are:

1) Track nitrates, which will slowly build up.  These are less harmful to your fish (but still harmful).  The general advice here seems to be to keep those under 40 ppm.  I find that test strips (like the ACO strips) are very convenient and cost effective for testing nitrate.

2) Water changes will reduce nitrates and help to reduce the build up of various unwanted elements in the tank (including fertilizer, which might not be utilized evenly by plants).  Research what might be appropriate for your tank and stick to it closely.

3) Add lots of plants.  This helps to balance out the tank.

4) It is a huge pain, but try to utilize quarantine for new fish.  Have a 10 or 20 gallon tank set up with a sponge filter along with a few guppies, or maybe just a bristlenose pleco that you can use for new fish.  The important thing there is to have an ammonia source to keep your biological filter active while you aren't quarantining fish.

There are just a few big things that are the most important for keeping your fish healthy.  Good luck! 🙂

p.s.  Pea puffers have specific diet requirements.  So, if you try those again, take a look at the link.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Galabar