Very low nitrates

[madcracked]

Hello I'm having no problems with my tank except my scarlet temple isn't growing like I want it to. I have a 70g tank with a 30g sump used really only for equipment and extra water capacity. I have full spectrum lights on my tank set to about 50% intensity. Substrate is eco complete black which is on avg 4 inchs deep. Stocking is moderately light at the moment besides the sump I do have a canister filter which is left alone and hasn't been cleaned for 4 month+. Like cory I belive heavily let nature do its thing. Ph is very stable @7.4 no amonia no nitrites. Haven't tested gh or kh recently but do have 1.5lbs of crushed coral as my buffer. So with all that said. For the past 2 months I have had 0ppm nitrates. I stopped water changes and have been dosing easy green very heavily this past week. Started with a 100g dosed then tested with no change then did a 150g dosed then got 5ppm waited 2 days and tested to find 2.5ish ppm not avail. Dosed another 100g no change waited 2 hour then dosed another 100g. I'm starting to suspect either my easy green is bad or my api master kit is. The ease green is only 2 months old and the master kit doesn't expire till 2028. I suspect this because I had put a few drops of easy green in my test viles and did not see  a significant test change. Any thoughts. Was going to have my water tested at a local shop and see what they come up with.

[Fish Folk]

A puzzle! Several thoughts…

First, determine if your theory about Nitrate has any merit:

(1) Take some distilled water, add ca. 16-oz each to two identical containers.

(2) Add 2x pumps of Easy Green to one container, and mix thoroughly.

(3) Test both containers with your API kit. The Nitrate test titration bottles have crystals in that require vigorous shaking prior to use — shake each bottle hard for 60 seconds.

— If your Easy Green and API Kit are functioning correctly, your results _should_ show a noticeable difference in nitrate between both containers. —

(4) To backstop your at-home test, take water from these two containers to your LFS and have them conduct a test.

— If nothing can be discerned this way, send ACO customer service a kind note explaining your experience. Connect your tests to this product description for clarity. —

Second, looking at your results, (a) Scarlet Temple can be hard for everyone. It needs iron and benefits from CO2. (b) Your aquarium setup may be somehow making tests hard to get accurate results from. Some report Eco Complete absorbing nutrients. Hard to get a good reading on your sump and cannister… sounds like there’s no Nitrate absorption going on there… (c) I have heard some aquarists comment that titration tests can be messed up due to water treatments. I am not qualified to comment on the merits of that chemistry assertion. But it sounds like you’re _not_ changing / treating water. (d) If your Easy Green bottle gas been exposed to direct, ongoing sunlight or high heat, it is possible that your chems got cooked. As I understand, this was why the bottle was converted to black from green awhile back.

——

At bottom, you should be able to sort out whether your test bottles are an issue or whether the Easy Green is suspect. 

[madcracked]

Haven't done a direct test of control from tap water to tank water but did do a test with tank water after girst day of treatment and then another with the easy green in just the tube as an additive to see if I got a boost in levels. Still good idea to eliminate variables. And no I'm not treating water other than declorinator. Storage of the easy green is out of sunlight in a controlled room and I've made it a habit to always shake all my test bottles before running tests. Will post update about LFS results later.

[Ohad]

Your problem is not nitrates. Red plants like scarlet temple need to have very very low nitrates in the water. 

What is your water hardness? Most plants would like water on the soft side. Scarlet Temple is a slowish grower and suffers from very hard water. So if your tap water is already hard I would say forget about the crushed corals I would forget about it regardless unless your fish required hard water then look for more hardy plants.

[Ohad]

To not confused you there is the aquarium co-op way of the fish tank and this is amazing if your focus is most tropical freshwater fish and the "natural biotope style" of the fish tank. 

If you look at Cory's tanks he is using plants as another layer of filtering. Like Crypts, Anubias, guppy grass, swords, and so on. These can grow in hard or soft water or whatever water you have. The substrate is not as important

When you get to the more delicate plants you need to start moving from the "natural" aquarium way. 

And look at how for example green aqua on youtube grow these plants. It's not as natural these are high-energy tanks where we try to help the plants to be the best they could be. It's a different style and I did both and both are fun just depended on the style of tank you are going for. But they have different needs and rules 

[Ninjoma]

I personally would dose a lot more easy green until you get to your desired Nitrate level. You could do a 200g dose every day until your nitrates are at 20+ppm.

[madcracked]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:52 PM, Ohad said:

To not confused you there is the aquarium co-op way of the fish tank and this is amazing if your focus is most tropical freshwater fish and the "natural biotope style" of the fish tank. 

If you look at Cory's tanks he is using plants as another layer of filtering. Like Crypts, Anubias, guppy grass, swords, and so on. These can grow in hard or soft water or whatever water you have. The substrate is not as important

When you get to the more delicate plants you need to start moving from the "natural" aquarium way. 

And look at how for example green aqua on youtube grow these plants. It's not as natural these are high-energy tanks where we try to help the plants to be the best they could be. It's a different style and I did both and both are fun just depended on the style of tank you are going for. But they have different needs and rules 

Yes I do know red plants are slower in growing and most prefer low nitrates. As far as I know many people have said to get them to be deep red low nitrates are best if not zero. But if you see they are shooting out roots along their stems. I guess what I'm really trying to say I would feel alot better knowing that there are at least some nitrates available to the plants instead of each plant fighting for any that may be available.

[Patrick_G]

With 350 g (2/3 of a bottle) of Easy green in 100 gallons you should be seeing a lot of Nitrate, even in a heavily planted jungle tank. 

The API test is notorious for giving false negatives if the instructions for shaking the bottle aren’t followed precisely. To compound the problem, if you do a few test without enough shaking then subsequent test might also show false results. 

[Ninjoma]

On 5/8/2023 at 5:51 PM, Patrick_G said:

With 350 g (2/3 of a bottle) of Easy green in 100 gallons you should be seeing a lot of Nitrate, even in a heavily planted jungle tank. 

The API test is notorious for giving false negatives if the instructions for shaking the bottle aren’t followed precisely. To compound the problem, if you do a few test without enough shaking then subsequent test might also show false results. 

I was perceiving this part:

 

On 5/8/2023 at 4:50 AM, madcracked said:

100g dosed then tested with no change then did a 150g

to mean. The dose for 100 gallons (10 pumps) then the dose for 150 gallons (15 pumps). If they meant 100 grams. Then I want to clarify I am not suggesting one dose 200 grams of easy green every day. @madcracked can you clarify what you meant?

[Patrick_G]

On 5/8/2023 at 6:38 PM, Ninjoma said:

to mean. The dose for 100 gallons (10 pumps) then the dose for 150 gallons (15 pumps). If they meant 100 grams. Then I want to clarify I am not suggesting one dose 200 grams of easy green every day. @madcracked can you clarify what you meant?

That does make more sense, thanks @Ninjoma

[madcracked]

Yes definitely meant 100g as ten pumps worth. Finally got some results last night after adding 100g dose in the morning and then another 150g dose. Test late last night and got 10ppm. In total this week my tank has been treated with around 500gal worth. I think fish folk has it right. My substrate which is very think and a type that can trap nutrients is to blame. I may have to have saturated my substrate before seeing result will test every few days and see how it drops

[Ericka Ketchum]

Hello All. 

After reading this, I believe I have my answer.

To be sure, here is my issue. I set up my 29 gallon aquarium about a month ago. I have watched hundreds of aquarium co op videos to help me along. I am in a great spot with the water and fish, but my plants are starving. Water parameters are steady at .25 ammonia, .25 nitrite, 5ppm nitrate and ph 8.0. I also have pretty hard water (which I have not tested directly)

I have 5 plants (a few contortionist val, anubias barteri, westeria, cabomba,  and bronze cryptocoryne wendetii). I also have a small angelfish, 10 tetra size fish, a hillstream loach, 2 ghost shrimp and 2 nerite snails. I added root tabs for the root feeders, but I just recieved my easy green today. I added 3 squirts right away. After watching the nitrate video, I added another 3 squirts after I retested 4 hours later, with no change.

Do I keep adding 3 squirts every 4 hours, until the nitrate level gets between 25- 50ppm? Then wait 3 or 4 days to retest?

I have not tested any other parameters such as phosphate, potassium etc.
Thanks for any help

[madcracked]

On 5/11/2023 at 5:56 PM, Ericka Ketchum said:

Hello All. 

After reading this, I believe I have my answer.

To be sure, here is my issue. I set up my 29 gallon aquarium about a month ago. I have watched hundreds of aquarium co op videos to help me along. I am in a great spot with the water and fish, but my plants are starving. Water parameters are steady at .25 ammonia, .25 nitrite, 5ppm nitrate and ph 8.0. I also have pretty hard water (which I have not tested directly)

I have 5 plants (a few contortionist val, anubias barteri, westeria, cabomba,  and bronze cryptocoryne wendetii). I also have a small angelfish, 10 tetra size fish, a hillstream loach, 2 ghost shrimp and 2 nerite snails. I added root tabs for the root feeders, but I just recieved my easy green today. I added 3 squirts right away. After watching the nitrate video, I added another 3 squirts after I retested 4 hours later, with no change.

Do I keep adding 3 squirts every 4 hours, until the nitrate level gets between 25- 50ppm? Then wait 3 or 4 days to retest?

I have not tested any other parameters such as phosphate, potassium etc.
Thanks for any help

To make sure we have all the info how long ago did you add the root tabs. I wouldn't want any amonia or nitrites. To me sounds like either you have something leeching from the root tabs and hasn't been broken down yet or your tank isn't cycled or seasoned yet. My situation may be different from yours since my tank isn't stocked heavy and have alot of ways for my tank to remove waste and is heavily planted.

[Ericka Ketchum]

I added the root tabs when i got the plants, about 3 weeks ago. They are growing new sprouts, but the ends of the old leaves are dying. From watching a bunch of Aquarium Co Op videos, I came to the conclusion it's because there isn't enough food, since you are correct, the tank is not seasoned. 

Do I continue to add more easy green until the nitrates get to 25- 50ppm, or should I wait and only add it weekly?

[madcracked]

I would keep nitrates to a minimum until you have no amonia or nitrite and the plants are fully established. Your plants are just starting out. The leaves dying are normal. They will melt back and the leaves dying will add to the avail nitrates in the tank.

Edited May 13, 2023 by madcracked

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/8/2023 at 4:50 AM, madcracked said:

Ph is very stable @7.4

I can't verify it because I've tried this plant about 6 times and never gotten it to grow.  I have heard it like sub 7.0 PH.

Here is a very good plant database article on AR.  You can use google translate to get that into english for you.  I'll attach some notes below.
https://www.flowgrow.de/db/wasserpflanzen/alternanthera-reineckii-rosaefolia
 

Quote

A. reineckii "Rosa" can be grown with low light and without CO2 supply, but it will never reach its full potential. Medium to high light intensity (0.4-1 watt per liter) and CO2 supply can be considered ideal.

In tanks with less light, the plant tends to shed the lower leaves. The hardness of the water can range from soft to hard, and this plant is not particularly demanding when it comes to the pH value either, although it thrives better in a slightly acidic environment.

In contrast to many other red plants, this plant prefers a nutrient-rich environment with high concentrations of nitrate (10 mg/l and more) and phosphate (0.5 mg/l and more). In nutrient-poor water, soil fertilization can significantly improve the general health of the plant and its growth rate.

Initially, each stem should be planted at a distance from each other. This species can easily be propagated by head cuttings, i.e. by cutting off the shoot tip and planting it in the substrate. be propagated by cutting off the top and planting it in the substrate. Lateral shoots will form on the part of the stem that is left standing, giving the plant a bushier appearance.

 

[Ericka Ketchum]

On 5/12/2023 at 6:21 PM, madcracked said:

I would keep nitrates to a minimum until you have no amonia or nitrite and the plants are fully established. Your plants are just starting out. The leaves dying are normal. They will melt back and the leaves dying will add to the avail nitrates in the tank.

Thank you so much for the help!!