Should I introduce detritus worms in my tank?

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:59 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

You should check out the Reverse Respiration thread. 12 hr seltzer soak in the dark for plants, it kills all the things and the plants like the CO2 from the seltzer. Then they are good to go for your tank.

tag @dasaltemelosguyif you want to add anything further (quick tips)

You said it all! If it needs oxygen, it will perish. The acidity seems to dissolve most of them as well. Snails drop to the bottom, but I remember seeing planaria swim off of a plant and they seem to vanish, and this occurred so quickly I was unable to film it. So far, while some algae have been resistant, I don't think we've seen any parasites survive. And with no residue but water, it's pretty safe. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:02 AM, lmhicks101 said:

I completely understand why @nabokovfan87 isn’t a fan of the w word. 

They killed a filter for me too.  Stuff happens when you can't control them.

They went to the high flow sections and went crazy. I was cleaning the filter daily for almost a month before I felt comfortable enough to leave it to a normal maintenance routine.

On 5/6/2023 at 11:03 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

For sure!  There was a lot of testing done on Reverse Respiration, confirming death of the baddies with a microscope. @Guppysnail posted something above, look at her signature line for the link to Reverse Respiration.

Alum is a very safe dip that you can use. Bleach is also a dip you can use. The RR/Seltzer might be a more thorough method.

At this point, given all the junk I see on plants I would just get the invitro ones or qt the plants themselves. Having a place for plants to sit and to basically acclimate to your water while you can dip and check for pests, monitor and check for pests, however you want to handle it.

[lmhicks101]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:36 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

They killed a filter for me too.  Stuff happens when you can't control them.

Alum is a very safe dip that you can use. Bleach is also a dip you can use. The RR/Seltzer might be a more thorough method.

Yeah I might of over done it with the no plenaria stuff but they’re gone and my fish and plants survived so I count that as a win. 
 

I’ve used Alum but the few times I did I lost some plants so I just went to hosing them with peroxide in a spray bottle. I’ve yet to see anything in quarantine after doing that. I’ll try the RR/Seltzer @Chick-In-Of-TheSea suggested next time I get a batch of plants. I’ll be honest… I’m kinda a plant hoarder so it’ll be in a day or 2 at most. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

I say do it. 99.9% of all aquarium "hitchhikers" are good for the system. Anyone stating otherwise is letting their "ick" factor control them. Do it. Do it now.

[lmhicks101]

On 5/6/2023 at 2:54 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

You said it all! If it needs oxygen, it will perish. The acidity seems to dissolve most of them as well. Snails drop to the bottom, but I remember seeing planaria swim off of a plant and they seem to vanish, and this occurred so quickly I was unable to film it. So far, while some algae have been resistant, I don't think we've seen any parasites survive. And with no residue but water, it's pretty safe. 

I did an experiment with another person on here a year to 2 ago where we took pests from tanks and used different chemicals to see what worked and what didn’t. That’s where I saw actual proof that everything I can get dies to peroxide. Plenaria, several other worms, rams, bladder, pond snails, mts, and the eggs of everything on here. We also tested and timed how long it took.

alcohol and bleach kills all but damages the plants

peroxide kills all and after 20 minutes then a fresh water cleaning was good to go 

Lemon juice wrecks everything except eggs of rams horns take longer the peroxide so I’d rather use peroxide though it smells better. 

Have you intentionally collected pests as well as possible plant deseases then tested and times how long it took as well as the results? 

On 5/6/2023 at 4:14 PM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

I say do it. 99.9% of all aquarium "hitchhikers" are good for the system. Anyone stating otherwise is letting their "ick" factor control them. Do it. Do it now.

With in reason. I would happily be rid of all my snails. I don’t mind them if they’d stay at a small population but it’s either I starve my fish or have to watch the tank with hawk eyes anytime I feed it to get rid of left overs. My tanks have a lot of bottom dwellers and are heavily planted so I have to toss things in the bushes to feed them all. 
 

Also the eggs in everything are the reason I don’t have nerites anymore. 

[Guppysnail]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:44 AM, lmhicks101 said:

Do you ever see any that survive and establish in your tanks?

No. 24 hours is roughly the longest I’ve seen them survive. 

[dasaltemelosguy]

@lmhicks101, here you go. It's a very long test so it's probably best to go directly to the website. Yes, it was a 6-month long test involving dozens of identified pests and many unidentified parasites and a wide variety of plants as well. I was closely working with @Guppysnail, @OnlyGenusCaps and @Odd Duck as consultants during the design of RR so they may have more to add. 

Below is just one image from the dozens of microscopic verifications, this one being indicative of relative plant damage. RR by far affected the plants the least and we even observed some initial, accelerated growth:

There's also links to live videos of reactions. Of particular interest to you might be the chloroplast activity as it was moderately to severely damaged by all methods but RR. Also, the embryonic videos of the RR treated snail eggs is quite interesting as you can see them slowing over time until deceased. Somewhere in the video section there's a microscopic video of the pressure literally forcing the cytoplasm directly out of algae cells. 

You may want to peruse the thread (it's in the Community Resource section on the forum) for firsthand experiences posted and you may read the entire experiment here: Reverse Respiration

 

 

[lmhicks101]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:06 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

@lmhicks101, here you go. It's a very long test so it's probably best to go directly to the website. Yes, it was a 6-month long test involving dozens of identified pests and many unidentified parasites and a wide variety of plants as well. I was closely working with @Guppysnail, @OnlyGenusCaps and @Odd Duck as consultants during the design of RR so they may have more to add. 

Below is just one image from the dozens of microscopic verifications, this one being indicative of relative plant damage. RR by far affected the plants the least and we even observed some initial, accelerated growth:

There's also links to live videos of reactions. Of particular interest to you might be the chloroplast activity as it was moderately to severely damaged by all methods but RR. Also, the embryonic videos of the RR treated snail eggs is quite interesting as you can see them slowing over time until deceased. Somewhere in the video section there's a microscopic video of the pressure literally forcing the cytoplasm directly out of algae cells. 

You may want to peruse the thread (it's in the Community Resource section on the forum) for firsthand experiences posted and you may read the entire experiment here: Reverse Respiration

 

 

Sweet!!! Thank you so much. I’m gonna be down this rabbit hole all night 😂

[Odd Duck]

I used to treat plants with dilute bleach water or peroxide.  I still use peroxide on plants that have algae on them that are already planted when I’m not willing to uproot them.  Now I only use RR on new plants and mosses.  I used to quarantine lots of plants even after bleach treatment, but I now only quarantine mosses after their RR treatment since they are more likely to hide things like duckweed or (I don’t want to jinx myself by even mentioning it) the dreaded Wolffia.

I don’t worry about building up detritus worms, they’ll be in there, but whether they are present in such numbers that you see them and can use them as a reliable food source is another matter.  If you’re vacuuming the sand regularly, you’re removing the detritus that feeds the detritus worms.  I don’t try to vacuum anything below the very surface of my sand bottom tanks.  Detritus is worm food, plant food, and other micro-life food that I want to not tamper with too much.

Planaria can get very problematic.  I’ve had to treat tanks for planaria before and it’s hard on a tank and it’s micro-fauna.  I think the detritus worms will come back and may already be present, just in suppressed numbers, still.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Odd Duck
Typo

[lmhicks101]

On 5/11/2023 at 8:15 PM, Odd Duck said:I think the detritus worms will come back and may already be present, just in suppressed numbers, still.

So in a search for some detritus worms I ended up breaking down the filter of an old tank that I rarely change because it’s more a plant nursery and only has a couple fish in it. I ended up finding some in there and got hers a bunch to transplant in the other tank filters. Fingers crossed they do good.

On another note I got a nice bit and just tossed them in the guppy tank. Not a one touched the substrate. Absolute blood bath. The cories ended up breading the next morning so that cool too. 

[PineSong]

This thread sums up why participation in the forum is so rewarding and I'm so glad it's here.

I was feeding my 20 long this AM and whoa! I saw two long skinny worms swimming like crazy up toward the surface.

First, I freaked out a bit because ewww; I don't mind earthworms a bit but these skinny aquatic guys are nope ropes for me.

Second, I unfreaked bc I knew I could turn to the forum and A) positively ID the worms and B) find out whether I needed to freak back out/do anything else about them.

Third, I did a search on the forum and found this thread, allowing me to ID the worms as detritus worms and also to read a whole slew of well-informed and experience-backed opinions and research about the pros and cons of having them from people I trust because I've also read a million of their other posts.

Now all I have left to do is hire someone to do all future hands-on work in this tank because I recognize the worms are part of a healthy ecosystem but I am too creeped out to ever put my hands in there again under any circumstances, ever. 

Just kidding, kind of. Maybe. But thanks, y'all!

The tank in question: too heavily planted for vacuuming...

 

 

[Guppysnail]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, PineSong said:

am too creeped out to ever put my hands in there again under any circumstances, ever. 

When I have a cut on my hands I use new dish gloves or vinyl gloves duct taped to my arms so tank water does not get in the open wound. That may be an option for you.