Whole tank died at once except snails

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Posting for a friend that is not a member of the forum.  She had 4 guppies and 1 BNP in a 10g w/ 2 mysteries.  A mystery snail had pitting of the shell and she added crushed coral, less than the recommended amount, 1 week ago.  No other changes were made.  Last night all 4 fish and the BNP died.  The snails are active.

Parameters before:

pH 7.4

Temp 78

kH 1

gH 0

amm - 0

no2 - 0

no3 - 10

 

Parameters after:

pH 7.4

Temp 78

kH 8

gH 7

amm - 0

no2 - 0

no3 - 10

 

After the deaths she was thinking about the fish, thought "maybe" she saw a little bit of stress in the guppies, nothing major, throughout the week.  

Could the cc have caused the mass dieoff suddenly?

No water changes were done since cc was added.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[The endler guy]

Possibly if the coral had some sort of ichthyotoxin 

[Theplatymaster]

maybe a PH crash?

low KH  leads to some unstable water.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Theplatymaster

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:08 AM, Theplatymaster said:

maybe a PH crash?

pH 7.4 before & after.

[gardenman]

Guppies can be a bit fragile, but the bristlenose pleco dying is odd. They're typically pretty tough little fish. With water parameters it's always worth remembering that what we see when we test is a snapshot of how things are at that moment. It doesn't necessarily tell you how things were when all heck broke loose.

This is especially true of small tanks with less water volume. A test now may not tell you what went horribly wrong eight hours ago when the fish were first in trouble. It's possible her biofiltration was barely keeping up with the bioload and then overfeeding or an unseen dead fish overwhelmed it. When the fishkeeper went to bed the tank could have been on the verge of collapse. The fish died, as the biofiltration fought to catch up. Once the fish died the ammonia output from them briefly paused (no respiration, urine output, etc. and decomposition hadn't started yet.) The biofiltration rebounds, catches up, and when the water is tested in the morning it looks great despite there having been an ammonia spike overnight and a tank of now dead fish.

The water temp is fine now, but maybe the heater stuck on for an hour overnight and cooked the fish. It then became unstuck and by morning the tank was back at its normal temp. 

To begin with, I would put no blame on the crushed coral in regards to its effect on the water chemistry. It's possible the crushed coral became contaminated with something toxic to fish along the way. (Common weedkillers for example.) Something happened. That's for sure. The list of possibilities can be very long and nearly impossible to pinpoint after the fact. Everything looks good now though. Common illnesses seem less likely as a cause. I would think it was an environmental issue of some sort. Wild temp swing, contamination, or the like.

[Colu]

The only difference in the water parameters was the KH went from 1-8 GH that went from 0-7  I don't think that would have been enough to kill fish as the pH remained stable any possibility of something like air freshener or other cleaning product accidentally getting into the tank usually with mass die off it caused by poor water quality or accidental poisoning with some form of house hold chemical or forgetting to add a water dechlorinator after doing a water change @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Edited February 23, 2023 by Colu

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:40 AM, Colu said:

The only difference in the water parameters was the KH went from 1-8 GH that went from 0-7  I don't think that would have been enough to kill fish as the pH remained stable any possibility of something like air freshener or other cleaning product accidentally getting into the tank usually with mass die off it caused poor water quality or accidental poisoning with some form of house hold chemical or forgetting to add a water dechlorinator after doing a water change @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

I will ask her. I know the tank has the Aqueon glass lid 

Also same cc used for axolotl tank. Axolotl is fine but he gets a lot of water changes because he is big and produces a lot of waste.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

She said no chance of contaminants. Tight fitting lid. Nothing sprayed, spilled near the tank. @Colu

Edited February 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Theplatymaster]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea

crazy idea,

so chances are the CC was rinsed in tap water, is there a chance some chlorine came with it after it was rinsed? i see you havent provided chlorine readings.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:00 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Could the cc have caused the mass dieoff suddenly?

KH and GH went from basically 0 up to about 8.  That's a pretty massive swing.  I'm not saying it caused it, but just an observation.

I find it hard to believe PH before was at the same after that much of a KH swing.  I think PH might've crashed, then went back up and that caused the issues.
 

On 2/23/2023 at 6:13 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

pH 7.4 before & after.

It might've been 7.4 from fresh water at the time of testing.

For clarity.  PH was tested, CC added, then tested immediately again or how was this done?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@Theplatymaster

On 2/23/2023 at 6:24 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

For clarity.  PH was tested, CC added, then tested immediately again or how was this done?

She tested the water when she found that her 5 fish had died.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Theplatymaster]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSeawhere was the sourced of the CC?

if it was in a tank with sick fish, then it could make sense why only fish were affected, and not axolotls or snails/

[Colu]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:02 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

She said no chance of contaminants. Tight fitting lid. Nothing sprayed, spilled near the tank. @Colu

Nothing jumping out at me water parameters fine no contamination if it were a disease I wouldn't have expected all the fish to die at the same time without any symptoms from my experience bristlenose are very hardy fish i would have expected them to  survived  for longer then guppies it were a disease 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:07 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

She tested the water when she found that her 5 fish had died.

That initial test. Was it from the tank right after a WC or something?

Let's say the tank has OTS or has a hint of it. We know KH is 0. pH is very unstable. Then everything off gassed and PH dropped from the tap to match the tank. Then the CC was added.

How much in total in lbs, how big is the tank?

Because PH had dropped,.KH immediately shot up. It should be a slow release. It should take weeks for it to go from 0 up to 8.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:11 PM, Theplatymaster said:

 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSeawhere was the sourced of the CC

 

I’m trying to find that out. I want her to send me a photo of the package.

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:26 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I’m trying to find that out. I want her to send me a photo of the package.

just my theory is she walks into her LFS, asks for some cc, they go to one of their saltwater tanks,  or whatever tanks, and pull some out, and a disease was transferred on the cc.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:33 PM, Theplatymaster said:

just my theory is she walks into her LFS, asks for some cc, they go to one of their saltwater tanks,  or whatever tanks, and pull some out, and a disease was transferred on the cc.

No, it was shipped to her dry.

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:38 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

No, it was shipped to her dry.

ah, that ends that theory.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:38 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

No, it was shipped to her dry.

Either CaribSea or ACO is the two I know of. Everything else is under aragonite.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@Theplatymaster @nabokovfan87

CaribSea is the brand, and this is the photo she sent.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

CaribSea is the brand, and this is the photo she sent.

How much of the bag was added. If she can weigh it that helps.

A lb of CC, is about what she would've added normally, is about the size of a quart bag, smaller if it's packed full.

Note: label says 10 lbs. Looks like 5 lbs missing?

Edited February 24, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@Theplatymaster @nabokovfan87

CaribSea is the brand, and this is the photo she sent.

so its probably not the cc.

hmm.... did she add anything else new lately?

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:40 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Either CaribSea or ACO is the two I know of. Everything else is under aragonite

This is aragonite. But the little white sticker says crushed coral. I am confused. 

On 2/23/2023 at 7:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

How much of the bag was added. If she can weigh it that helps

2 lb went to axolotl tank (29gal),

and 2 lb went to this (10gal) tank.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[anewbie]

Fishes are more sensitive to rapid change in water hardness than ph; i sort of skimmed the thread but i couldn't tell how quickly the water changed; my guess is pretty fast and that is what killed the fishes. Also there is a bit of a contradiciton the guppies love hard water but that isn't great for the pleco and a 10g is too small for an adult bn though for a child it will be ok for a while but really should be in a larger aquarium.

 

Anyway my guess is the fishes couldn't handle the rapid change in wter chemistry and what should have happened is they should have been slowly acclimated. Probably put in a pail over night (with heater and sponge filter) while the tank was made harder and then very slowly adjusted their water in the pail via drip or similar (as in 4 or 5 hours for water that different).

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:06 PM, anewbie said:

Fishes are more sensitive to rapid change in water hardness than ph; i sort of skimmed the thread but i couldn't tell how quickly the water changed; my guess is pretty fast and that is what killed the fishes. Also there is a bit of a contradiciton the guppies love hard water but that isn't great for the pleco and a 10g is too small for an adult bn though for a child it will be ok for a while but really should be in a larger aquarium.

 

Anyway my guess is the fishes couldn't handle the rapid change in wter chemistry and what should have happened is they should have been slowly acclimated. Probably put in a pail over night (with heater and sponge filter) while the tank was made harder and then very slowly adjusted their water in the pail via drip or similar (as in 4 or 5 hours for water that different).

GH and kH both changed by about 7 over one week. @Colu mentioned that’s not a big change?