Worms and Snails

[Cinnebuns]

I think my tank has some sort of worm. It started when I friend pointed out that my kuhli looked to have a parasite. He pointed out a red line running down its body. We quickly found what looked to be a worm but wrote it off as a root since we had just pulled out the amazon sword. I kept finding what I wrote off as roots. Now, I'm not as convinced. Here's some pics I got of one that looks to me to have segments like a worm. I will say tho, I haven't seen any of them move. 

 

Next. Snails. I have no hate for most pest snails until now. I hate MINI ramshorns. The regular ramshorns have a place in my tanks but not the minis. This tank also has a good supply of minis. This got me thinking, is this a time to get rid of the minis as the worms in one sweep?

If I did so, would I have to remove the fish?  Stocking is:  pearl gourami, green neon tetra, forktail rainbowfish, hillstream loach, otocinclus, and panda cories. I know they will have to be treated regardless but can I rid the tank of both problems with them in it?

Fenbendazole?  Does worms but how about snails?

Prazipro?

Salt?

Ideas?

@Colu I have another one now!!

 

 

[CJs Aquatics]

If that’s a worm of some sort inhabiting the tank I’ve never seen one like it, interested to see what someone more well versed has to say. Side note, in my experience loaches and puffers handle any snail problems I run into, the problem ends up being not enough snails lol 

[nabokovfan87]

Please remove that one for sure. Do you see more?

Looks like a straight up earthworm to me.

On 2/18/2023 at 11:20 PM, Cinnebuns said:

This got me thinking, is this a time to get rid of the minis as the worms in one sweep?

Just be very careful about ammonia crashing. I would basically remove the fish and things you want to keep alive, dump in far too much salt for an amount of time and then clean it well.

[DaveO]

This photo reminds me of an aquatic insects' larval stage casing. They actually build a protective case made of biofilm, detritus, plant material or other items in their immediate vicinity. If this tube is hollow you might have midgeflys or caddisfly (or similar) larva.

Edited February 19, 2023 by DaveO

[Theplatymaster]

@Cinnebuns

i have a great idea!

Ill send you a few of my mini-ramshorn snails

they will tell yours about the great time they are having in  my mini-ramshorn snails culture tank

yours will seek a better life and leave with mine.

its a win-win-win

i get more snails

you get rid of the snails

and the snails get a nice home!

(the one lose is reality but...😆)

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:22 AM, Theplatymaster said:

@Cinnebuns

i have a great idea!

Ill send you a few of my mini-ramshorn snails

they will tell yours about the great time they are having in  my mini-ramshorn snails culture tank

yours will seek a better life and leave with mine.

its a win-win-win

i get more snails

you get rid of the snails

and the snails get a nice home!

(the one lose is reality but...😆)

I love it!  I'm down haha!  It's funny because I love regular ramshorns but these minis can take a hike as far as I'm concerned!

[Theplatymaster]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:00 AM, Cinnebuns said:

I love it!  I'm down haha!  It's funny because I love regular ramshorns but these minis can take a hike as far as I'm concerned!

well you can actually see the big ramshorn snails...

[PerceptivePesce]

Is it possible to kill parasites without chemicals by removing all the host fish for some time, thereby breaking the life cycle?  

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:02 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Is it possible to kill parasites without chemicals by removing all the host fish for some time, thereby breaking the life cycle?  

They would just then contaminate the next tank. The fish need to be treated as well as the tank. 

[PerceptivePesce]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:03 AM, Cinnebuns said:

They would just then contaminate the next tank. The fish need to be treated as well as the tank. 

Oh, yes, I understand that, but in a hospital tank there wouldnt be any other flora and fauna that could be damaged by treatments.

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:08 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Oh, yes, I understand that, but in a hospital tank there wouldnt be any other flora and fauna that could be damaged by treatments.

That's true. I still actually do want to get rid of the mini ramshorns. It would mean moving the 1 mystery snail in there but that's fine. 

[Guppysnail]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:02 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Is it possible to kill parasites without chemicals by removing all the host fish for some time, thereby breaking the life cycle?  

Any parasite that requires a fish as an intermediate host will die off.  How long it takes depends on the lifecycle of the parasite. Not all parasites and viruses bacteria etc require an intermediate host to sustain life. Please don’t ask which ones because I have no idea. 

[Solstice_Lacer]

In my limited experience, my assassin snail will hunt mini ramshorns but leave anything bigger alone. Even if it got a few babies of the big ones I doubt it would make a significant dent. But I know there is still an inherent risk with a predatory snail and they could each have slightly different personalities and preferences.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:08 AM, PerceptivePesce said:

Oh, yes, I understand that, but in a hospital tank there wouldnt be any other flora and fauna that could be damaged by treatments.

A common method is to use salt. Things that live in salt, often, cannot live in freshwater and vice versa. The real question is how to do that and how long to do it for.

https://sciencing.com/kill-bacteria-salt-12029250.html

Edited February 19, 2023 by nabokovfan87
fixed link

[Cinnebuns]

I'm back to thinking these are actually just roots. The only one I've seen that is not obviously a root is the one pictured and even that one I wasn't 100% sure because it never moved. It did however shrivel up to less than half the size within an hour of laying out. Would a root do that?  Idk I'm torn. I'm kinda leaning towards better to he safe than sorry and treat but idk because money things. 

@nabokovfan87 @Guppysnail 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:09 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Would a root do that?

I don't think a root would behave that way. For most roots you'll see the main root and then small hairs of shooting the mass. I don't see that here.

The stone you have is also known for having crevices and mud and things inside. Something could've been in there and taken however long for the mud to dissolve. All variables here....

 

@Beardedbillygoat1975aany ideas?

@OnlyGenusCaps any.ideas?

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I think it could be roots and a single worm. However, my experience has been where there’s one there’s more. 
 

Natural approaches are loaches, they are the best at ferreting out worms and they love snails. Many species to choose from.
 

Assassin snails as mentioned they don’t kill adult snails typically, I find them to be opportunistic hunters and the babies are easy and numerous. I may be the exception to the rule but I’ve never seen them exterminate all the pest snails just keep the populations in check. 
 

I’ve used panacur and no planaria in settings with hydra and planaria and they are effective. However, the die off can be dramatic and prolonged as many of these critters live in the substrate and so I’ve had them really push off the balance of the tank. I’d do it on a weekend when you can be around. I’d have a 30 g Rubbermaid of aged water on hand to do water changes as needed. I like the loach method better. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:53 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Natural approaches are loaches, they are the best at ferreting out worms and they love snails. Many species to choose from.

There are hillstream loaches (generally not the type of loach I'm sure you meant) and kuhli loaches in the tank. This came to my awareness from one of the kuhlis actually. Idk exactly if he was right or not but a friend saw a kuhli and pointed to a red line down its body and said that was an indication of a worm inside of it. I have considered getting yoyo loaches. The main reason I resisted is so I can also keep mystery snails in the tank but that's also not a major deal as I have other tanks to choose from. Would a yoyo loach eat the worms as well?  Could I be sure the fish would be safe with doing that alone?

 

On 2/20/2023 at 12:53 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Assassin snails

Def out. Panda cory breeding population in the tank so lots of shrimp pellets fed. Assassins would get lazy. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Yo-yo would definitely eat worms and snails. Zebra loaches are great as well. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:09 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I'm back to thinking these are actually just roots.

Your photo is of a root.  That, of course, do not preclude there being worms, or some other parasite in your tanks which is causing illness in your fish.  I am no expert at treating fish parasites and disease - as someone who is still dealing with a die-off from some unknown pathogen despite over a dozen treatments.  But, perhaps @Colu has some useful input? 

[Colu]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:37 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Your photo is of a root.  That, of course, do not preclude there being worms, or some other parasite in your tanks which is causing illness in your fish.  I am no expert at treating fish parasites and disease - as someone who is still dealing with a die-off from some unknown pathogen despite over a dozen treatments.  But, perhaps @Colu has some useful input? 

I agree with @OnlyGenusCaps that's  a root that doesn't preclude a parasitic infections have you seen any these symptoms rapid breathing listlessness hanging near the surface flashing spitting food out sunken belly @Cinnebuns

Edited February 20, 2023 by Colu

[Colu]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:37 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Your photo is of a root.  That, of course, do not preclude there being worms, or some other parasite in your tanks which is causing illness in your fish.  I am no expert at treating fish parasites and disease - as someone who is still dealing with a die-off from some unknown pathogen despite over a dozen treatments.  But, perhaps @Colu has some useful input? 

@OnlyGenusCaps can you post a picture of the sick fish what symptoms are your fish displaying how long between first symptoms to your fish dieing what medication have you used and did you see any improvement with any of  the medication you have treated with

Edited February 20, 2023 by Colu

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:05 AM, Colu said:

I agree with @OnlyGenusCaps that's  a root that doesn't preclude a parasitic infections have you seen any these symptoms rapid breathing listlessness hanging near the surface flashing spitting food out sunken belly @Cinnebuns

Tbh, absolutely no symptoms in the fish in this tank other than the one in the kuhli loach which I'm not even sure is a symptom. I can try to get a picture lately but kuhlis do kuhli things. It basically has a thin red line all down its body. I thought that was just how they were but a friend saw it and said it's a sign of a parasite. Idk tho. Tbh, if it isn't, I don't think I have much of a reason to treat. 

The one and only thing I hold onto with thinking the one in the picture is POSSIBLY a worm and not a root is how it acted when left out to dry. After about an hour it shriveled to about half it's size. Would a root do that?  Wouldn't they just harden?  

Overall, I'm starting to think I don't need to treat. I did order fenbendazole and prazipro but that's not a loss as it doesn't hurt to keep on hand if I choose not to treat 

[Colu]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:07 PM, Cinnebuns said:

The one and only thing I hold onto with thinking the one in the picture is POSSIBLY a worm and not a root is how it acted when left out to dry. After about an hour it shriveled to about half it's size. Would a root do that?  Wouldn't they just harden?  

It depends of the plant the root came from some will shrivel up quite a bit when dried 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Colu

[Cinnebuns]

On 2/20/2023 at 5:15 PM, Colu said:

It depends of the plant the root came from some will shrivel when up quite a bit when dried 

Most likely from my Amazon sword as I have been working with it and pulling it up and out a few times. I also saw a crypt pink flamingo with its roots lifted up a little today so slight possibility then but highly likely the amazon sword. 

I'm heavily leaning towards not treating. Also in the back of my head is better be safe than sorry. But then also is why subject fish to meds they don't need. I most likely won't treat BUT observe and keep meds on hand. 

I guess the final factor is introducing new fish. I just got some that are intended for that tank from a trade. A friend was going to hold onto them for a week while I treat but if I don't treat maybe I'll introduce them now?  Maybe not while I observe first? What would you do?