Nutrient deficient? Recommendations welcome

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

I have a question regarding my Anubias Barteri and Cryptocoryne Lucens plants.  The anubias has been in the aquarium for about 6 months and while it has been slowly growing putting out new leaves, slowly over time the new leaves have become more yellow with green veins and the leaves themselves are rippled around the veins and some on the edges of the leaves.  I've been dosing 2 to 3 times a week with Easy Green and once a week with Iron.  I have placed a root tab at the base of the plant as well.  Since I use soft water I also use Seachem Equilibrium when I change water.  I'm trying to figure out if this is just how this type of anubias looks, or if I'm deficient on something.

I'm also curious about the crypts I have in the tank.  These have only been in the aquarium for 1.5 months.  I'm trying to figure out if the plants are just going through melting and will regrow, or if it's a lighting thing (meaning too much light).  The reason I am wondering that is because the crypt in the back of the picture below looks better than the ones in front, but that plant is shaded by the Anubias that is over it.  I'm not sure if that plant just happened to be more converted than the others, or if there is something else at play.  All of the plants have gotten root tabs inserted by them each month.

Any thoughts?

Edited February 17, 2023 by Milliardo Peacecraft

[Theplatymaster]

@Milliardo Peacecraft have you been dosing a liquid fertilizer?

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

@Theplatymaster Yes, I use easy green, from aquarium coop 2 to 3 times a week. It's a 29 gallon aquarium so I use 3-4 pumps each time (the 1st pump mostly just primes is, a full shot isn't delivered, so it's like 3.5 pumps each time).

Edited February 18, 2023 by Milliardo Peacecraft

[Sleepy]

First most important question would be have you tested your water and what were the results?

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:27 AM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

I'm also curious about the crypts I have in the tank.  These have only been in the aquarium for 1.5 months.  I'm trying to figure out if the plants are just going through melting and will regrow, or if it's a lighting thing (meaning too much light).  The reason I am wondering that is because the crypt in the back of the picture below looks better than the ones in front, but that plant is shaded by the Anubias that is over it.  I'm not sure if that plant just happened to be more converted than the others, or if there is something else at play.  All of the plants have gotten root tabs inserted by them each month.

Any thoughts?

Anubias looks good to me.  Some veining, but not too bad and you are dosing enough.

I would add root tabs on the crypts, they will feed there and free up some food for the anubias to get it's food.  Dosing in iron, everything looks fine and it's just a matter of patience and time.  Don't change the light just quite yet.  Give the plants a good month with tabbing and continued methods.  If you see the leaves yellow in 1-2 weeks, then we need to review that.

Ultimately, this could be as simple as a substrate swap with something that has a bit higher CEC value for those crypts.  Not plants I've kept before, but an interesting dilemma.

On 2/17/2023 at 10:44 AM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

It's a 29 gallon aquarium so I use 3-4 pumps each time (the 1st pump mostly just primes is, a full shot isn't delivered, so it's like 3.5 pumps each time).

Same here. I totally understand this.

[knee]

What light are you using? How long is the photoperiod?

[MattyM]

I agree with @nabokovfan87 on the root tabs - my crypts gobble those up and get very happy. 

For the anubias - what do you observe with the new growth? I know on mine, the new leaves start a lighter green, and then turn a deeper green. If your new growth looks good, but then degrades over time, that would be a sign of some kind of deficiency. 

And yes, as others have said, testing your water and knowing what your lighting/photoperiod is like would help too.

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 2/17/2023 at 1:28 PM, Sleepy said:

First most important question would be have you tested your water and what were the results?

@SleepyTest results from 2 days after a 50% water change.

Nitrite 25

Nitrate 0

GH 150

KH 180

pH 8.0

Cl 0

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Milliardo Peacecraft

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:51 PM, MattyM said:

I agree with @nabokovfan87 on the root tabs - my crypts gobble those up and get very happy. 

For the anubias - what do you observe with the new growth? I know on mine, the new leaves start a lighter green, and then turn a deeper green. If your new growth looks good, but then degrades over time, that would be a sign of some kind of deficiency. 

And yes, as others have said, testing your water and knowing what your lighting/photoperiod is like would help too.

@MattyMHow often do you add rootabs and how many per plant?  I've been adding them about once a month.  1 tab for each Cryptocoryne Lucens plant and then about 4 tabs around my small amazon sword.

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

The light I'm using is a Finnex 24/7 planted + (KL-C30A).  Unfortunately I don't have a PAR meter and I have it set to change its intensity and hue throughout the day.  I would estimate that the light intensity would be up to a level that the plants would find useful from about noon till about 7pm.  I haven't run into algee issues since I got rid of the undergravel filter..and I discovered Otos...those things are awesome.

[MattyM]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:33 PM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

How often do you add rootabs and how many per plant?

I use the AC root tabs, and do as you do - about a tab per month, more for certain plants. This is while the plants (and substrate) are getting established. Then I usually go by how the plant looks. When it stops looking perky, it gets another tab or two. 

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

Just an update, after just over a week from my original post some of the leaves at the top of the anubias are now showing a bit of graying on them.  I attached a picture of it below.  One of the oldest leaves on the plant has a few holes in it as well.  Not sure what to attempt next.  It does have several roots that are well into the gravel from the driftwood it's mounted to so I'm debating about loading it up with root tabs and seeing if that helps.

[JoeQ]

My initial thought is Iron deficiency (altho I'm not great on plant nutrition @Mmiller2001 or @Seattle_Aquarist
Would be better sources for diagnosing nutritional problems.

 

My other thought is flow. You might be dosing enough but if you aren't moving water around your tank efficiently , not much of the fertilizer is getting distributed to all your hungry plants

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:27 PM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

pH 8.0

Use a DTPA Iron supplement. Improve flow around the tank if possible.

[FLFishChik]

I’m not an expert on Anubias, by any means, but I had similar issues with one in a tank and figured out it was getting too much/too strong light. Moved it to a shadier part of the tank under a taller plant and it recovered. I could just be a matter of your light. Anubias are a low light loving plant.

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 2/21/2023 at 2:55 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Use a DTPA Iron supplement. Improve flow around the tank if possible.

@Mmiller2001. Your graph intrigues me, can you explain it a bit more or direct me to an explanation of it.

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:27 AM, JoeQ said:

My initial thought is Iron deficiency (altho I'm not great on plant nutrition @Mmiller2001 or @Seattle_Aquarist
Would be better sources for diagnosing nutritional problems.

 

My other thought is flow. You might be dosing enough but if you aren't moving water around your tank efficiently , not much of the fertilizer is getting distributed to all your hungry plants

You might be right on the iron deficiency.  I think I'll try dosing Easy Iron twice a week instead of once and see what happens.  As of flow, I have quite a bit of that due to overkilled filtration on my 29 gallon aquarium.  I have a Fluval C4 HOB and a Fluval 306 canister on it, though both of those will be moved to my 75 gallon aquarium once it's ready to go in a few months, so then it "should" result in a more normal level of flow on that size aquarium.

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:09 PM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

@Mmiller2001. Your graph intrigues me, can you explain it a bit more or direct me to an explanation of it.

Certain chelates are less effective at certain pH. EDTA is only available to plants at lower pH. DTPA is the better option for higher pH.

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:23 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Certain chelates are less effective at certain pH. EDTA is only available to plants at lower pH. DTPA is the better option for higher pH.

Thank you.  Your explanation lead me in the right direction to get a better understanding of soluble iron vs pH.  I've dealt with iron before, but that was with ways to get iron out of drinking water, but I never thought about it before in reverse of wanting to hold iron in its soluble form so plants can utilize it.  I attached a link below to an article from Michigan State that has addional info that I found helpful.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/selecting_which_iron_chelate_to_use#:~:text=There are four commonly used,(o-hydroxyphenylacetic acid)).

 

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

Update #3, after a couple weeks of adding iron twice a week I can say based on the algee growth on my substrate and in my filters that I don't think I am lacking enough iron to need dosing Easy Iron twice a week....though I'm sure my Otos are quite happy with it.  I'm back to using iron once a week and I am now trying lowering the intensity of the lights and after 2 weeks it seems like the plants are looking better, not quite perfect yet, but a step in the right direction.  Guess I was effectively bleaching the crypts and anubias with too much light.  Have any of you run into that before?

[JoeQ]

You might want to research Liebig's law of the minimum which states that plant growth is controlled by the most scarce resource. Im not sure if this also also applies to Micros, but you might have a NPK deficiency that is restricting your plants ability to up take Iron.

 

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

@JoeQ. Thanks for the suggestion.  Interesting reads, so my reduced light is basically balancing the light level to the lowest nutrient available.  I think I'll give Seachem Trace and Seachem Iron a try and see if that changes anything up.  I suspect my 8.0 pH is making things a bit harder.  I've been using DTPA iron, but at 8 pH from the graph earlier in this post it still looks like a lot of the iron isn't solubilized/available.  From the little bit I read, it sounds like the Ferrous gluconate in the Seachem iron is less effected by pH.

[JoeQ]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:40 PM, Milliardo Peacecraft said:

@JoeQ. Thanks for the suggestion.  Interesting reads, so my reduced light is basically balancing the light level to the lowest nutrient available.  I think I'll give Seachem Trace and Seachem Iron a try and see if that changes anything up.  I suspect my 8.0 pH is making things a bit harder.  I've been using DTPA iron, but at 8 pH from the graph earlier in this post it still looks like a lot of the iron isn't solubilized/available.  From the little bit I read, it sounds like the Ferrous gluconate in the Seachem iron is less effected by pH.

Lighting is the gas pedal of a planted tank, it controls how fast plants use up nutrients. Problem is higher plants, the ones we want to grow, need a balanced mix of fuel (nutrients) to grow. Where as lower plants (algae) don't care about the fuel mixture, they just scavenge whatever is in the water colum. Lowering your light works by slowing growth so you dont run out of one of the main nutrients plants need to grow. The video below will explain this better, but IMO, your iron issue might be caused by a NPK issue and not by not enough iron, lack of other micro nutrients in the water colum or your 8.0 ph.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by JoeQ
Clarity

[Tait_007]

@Milliardo Peacecraft You need to get your Nitrates up. IU had this problem when i first started doing planted tanks where my plants would die off because there would be no usable nitrogen for them. Having a nitrate level of 0 would be great for a fish only tank. However, nitrogen is one of the main nutrients for plants just like what @JoeQ said with NPK. (The N stands for Nitrogen.) Nitrates are where plants usually get Nitrogen. I would try to keep your Nitrates between 20 - 40 ppm, but I have had my tanks get above 80 ppm with little to no side effects. Also, you might want to watch your Nitrite levels as they can be harmful for your fish. Remember the most dangerous thing fro your fish is Ammonia, then Nitrites are still bad for your fish but they can tolerate a little more, then Nitrate isn’t harmful until a very extreme level but it is still a good thing to try to keep them under control.

[rockfisher]

Sorry I didn’t read all of this but root tabs help the crypts. Also adding a liquid K fertilizer should help the color as well. Most People  say iron but it not the magic pill people think. It does make green plants that nice deep green, but it does fix that yellowing and veinyness.