Blackwater Bloody Mary Neo Setup

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:31 PM, Flipper said:

I've been wondering:  what's a Riddick?

I have a lone corydoras that ended up having a bacterial issue with their eyes.  I got them mostly healed up, but I think she also has cataracts.  Basically, Riddick is a character from a video game and movie series featuring Vin Diesel.  He has "eye shine" as one of his main character traits that allows him to see in the dark.

[Flipper]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have a lone corydoras that ended up having a bacterial issue with their eyes.  I got them mostly healed up, but I think she also has cataracts.  Basically, Riddick is a character from a video game and movie series featuring Vin Diesel.  He has "eye shine" as one of his main character traits that allows him to see in the dark.

That boy be ugly, but he does have shiney eyes 😄

Sorry here about your fish. 😒

[nabokovfan87]

I SWEAR.... no joke.... feels like a solid 200 shrimp in the tank.  I was just in awe sitting there staring at these things go bonkers.

Here is one, born today.  I watched the female kick out the baby shrimp and she had one that didn't want to be released. 😂

 

Beyond that, it's moving day!!!

 

I moved 6 tiny corydoras and a few more cull shrimp while I was in the tank.  Just really fun to sit and enjoy the tanks.... it really is.  There are few things I enjoy more than the shrimp and corydoras. No wonder that's all I've had in the tanks for so many years and just been in awe each time I sit and watch.

So yep!  Thank you shrimp groomers for your help raising up these fry.  It was really fun to see Riddick in mom mode and helping show them the ropes.

[nabokovfan87]

I kind of feel like this should be it's own post, but... here we are.

I wanted to really dive in and share a bit of what is going on in the shrimp tanks.  I learned something interesting recently and it's been part of an extended conversation where I have multiple concepts in play here. 

A.  Botanicals as a food source for shrimp
B.  Powdered food as a source of allowing bacteria to grow on surfaces as well and encourage biofilm
C.  Trying to avoid junk in the substrate and keep a very clean tank as to avoid parasites and health issues long term

I'll tag a few that might be interested in the following just for the sake of it as some people have been a part of those conversations.  (cc @AllFishNoBrakes @Shadow @Chick-In-Of-TheSea @CiderLovesFish )

The goal for the day was to move a bunch of hardscape around, give the plants more direct light, clean up a big of muck, clean a filter, and then to go ahead and try to "fix" the tank in terms of the anubias being right under the light.  I took the big rock and rotated that sideways which means that the anubias is lower in the tank as well as shifting the rocks to the outside/shaded sections of the tank itself.

Once things were out of the tank we have this....



The sand itself is a slightly off-white, pretty bright tan sand which normally has a white shine to it.  because of the tannins in the tank it is shaded a little darker, but you can see the chunks of debris as well as the discoloration of what I will term "fines."

So, let's talk about fines and what they really are in the grand scheme of things. 

From Tannin Aquatics:
Like any dynamic habitat, the "botanical-style substrate" relies on a variety of organisms to do the job of processing nutrients. A healthy and diverse assemblage of organisms dwelling in this layer, ranging from bacteria to fungi too worms and small crustaceans comprise what we call the "infauna." Essentially, the infauna is a collective of organisms which do most of the work in keeping a botanical-style aquarium functional and healthy.

https://tanninaquatics.com/blogs/the-tint-1/the-dynamic-substrate-nature-unleashed?_pos=8&_sid=5fe11822b&_ss=r

So the goal then would be to leave the tiny leaf debris, but to siphon out the uneaten food, waste, and to try to just have the "good bacteria" going into the shrimp diet.  What I have noticed of recent, especially with the bump in population, is that the baby shrimp will often be outside of the feeding dish and just chunking through botanicals and sand debris.  They do enjoy having that food there.  They really enjoyed eating leaves.  I do think that leaves and bee pollen weekly is going to go into my list of "do these things" in your shrimp care manual.

After cleaning the sand with a very good siphon, we have this:

The hope is that the filter debris in the back is removed and things like "end of life botanicals" are no longer in there so I can replace them with fresh ones as well as remove the debris I don't want in there.  You're always going to have random sticks, twigs, bark scrapings, and things that you just really don't want to get in your way.  Remember.... excess waste/organics means you can crash your KH and PH.  So it is important to remove stuff at some point.



You can see that pile of debris and it generally is as good as I can get it for cleanliness.  50% water change once a month or once every few months and I've only done this small portion of the tank.  This is where your layout for hardscape and complexity of the hardscape comes into play.

I moved all of the botanicals up front and there was just a mess.  You have the shrimp breaking those down, which in turn gives you this excess muck.  The tank got very cloudy.  I will post a picture below.  You decide if it's a before or an after cleaning.  I'll attach the answer in a spoiler tag. 🙂


 

Spoiler

This is AFTER I cleaned out all the junk:

So with all that being said.... I think I am coming to grips with some tweaks I need to make long term.  I have food for shrimp of all sizes and I do have some foods I need to acquire for the sake of benefiting the tank long term.  Which leads me to a bunch of questions that I need to research.  There is always something to learn....

Lastly, the 9th of the little corydoras moved into the big tank today.  Riddick will get her tank soon and I will really be looking forward to having that space for her.  I have decided to break this tank down.  Which means that I need to sell some stuff to be able to replace the stand/tank or move everything into that 20Long.  There's a few reasons, but the main thing here is to keep the shrimp happy and do what I need to whenever that time comes.

[CiderLovesFish]

Wow~ This is very impressive! Great job in maintaining the tank.

[nabokovfan87]

Thank you @CiderLovesFish!

I was doing some late night research and I am just always researching the topic.  I've done a deep dive and I have read these articles from this source before, but for whatever reason tonight things sunk in.  I wanted to share some tidbits and then go ahead and try to make sense of some adjustments I need to make for my tank.

But first.....  I got the shrimp a new thingamajig.



I'll use it and give some semblance of my thoughts.  Initially, I will say I wish the handle was steel, it's carbon fiber.... which sort of freaks me out.  It has a very fragile ring on the net, but the net itself is really nice.  The handle is a little "dry", but I am hoping it will be fine over time and not splinter or anything like that.

This is the tank after the move and all the rework on the tank. 


The anubias is in the corners, the moss wall and the potted plants will have the focus on the light, and so hopefully that changes things around a bit.  There are floating plants, which are in the top right.  Better photos eventually, but I wanted to share just to say that the tank feels a lot more open with the new layout.  I hope feeding is a bit easier too.  I don't plant to move rocks / lift things as much for cleaning.  I am going to let things build-up a little bit in some areas. 

Alright, so I was reading this article about shrimp molting issue:

https://aquariumbreeder.com/dwarf-shrimp-and-molting-problems-the-white-ring-of-death/

I wanted to pull up a few tidbits that are mentioned to make it a little easier to digest the key points.

How it happens...

Quote

So, how it happens. During molting, the shrimp is filling its shell with water until the old exoskeleton bursts at the breaking point in the neck area (between the carapace and the first abdominal segment). At the same time, the shrimp U-bends (spring effect) and wriggles off the old shell.

This is where the problem comes.

Instead of breaking at one point in the neck area, the shell breaks across the full exoskeleton. The “ring” is exposed flesh of the shrimp.

As a result, there are two parts of the old exoskeleton, which do not have any connection.

Therefore, U-bends do not help and shrimp cannot pop out of the shell.

In some cases, it seems that shrimp can barely move their legs or mouth. That is because the old shell is not attached to the shrimp body as it used to.

Imagine that you have taken off the glove partially. You can move your fingers inside but it will not affect the glove. Eventually, it stresses the shrimp and it dies in one or two days.

Expanding on this, here is a video of a shrimp molting that has a very pronounced white ring on it's body.  It is not a deathknell.  I can find a lot of tanks from youtube shrimpkeepers that are showing this on their colonies.  As much as we have this mindset that it's a "ring of death", that just is not the case.  I prefer to use the term molt issues when discussing this phenomenon because it removes some of that misleading verbiage.
 

 

Molting issues and the concept of protein in the diet as a cause:
(note: there are a lot of shrimp foods that use protein as a main ingredient, not algae)

 

Quote

Shrimp, Protein and Molting Problems

Well, I have seen so many times people saying that too much protein can cause the shrimp to grow too fast. As a result, it becomes really hard to shed off the shell and they can get “The White Ring of Death” or some other molting problems.  

Frankly saying, some time ago I also thought this way.

However, now I have my serious doubts that protein can cause this kind of molting problems. What I mean is that the protein problem is exaggerated.

I need to mention that fast growth can cause deaths. However, it is a little bit different. The faster shrimp grows, the more often it molts. Because molting is a very dangerous procedure by itself, every time shrimp molt, they risk.

Therefore, mathematically there is a higher chance to fail. Nonetheless, it has nothing to do with “unusual overgrowth”.  
Shrimp need a lot of Protein

The point is that I have read like several dozens of different studies about dwarf shrimp. To my surprise, almost in all cases, the researchers fed shrimp daily with food that contained 40-47% of crude protein.

Even more, some of these studies lasted months and they did not mention any problems with molting. On the contrary, right now it seems to me that, for biologists, it is a universal approach to feeding shrimp.

Why? Because it provides the best shrimp growth for their experiments without negative effects.

In addition, I would like to remind that exoskeleton consists of the three main components:

    Chitin (20-30 %).
    Protein (30-40%).
    Calcium carbonate(30-50%).

As we can see, protein plays a fundamental role in shrimp life. Therefore, when some shrimp breeders blame protein, well, I cannot accept it anymore unconditionally.

We do not know it for sure. It is just the guess. In order to become a problem, we need to give our shrimp mostly protein food and nothing else. Which is theoretically possible, but very unlikely in reality.

Based on everything that was said, the problem is not just protein, the problem is the diet itself. Maybe your shrimp are lacking something.

Shrimp need food diversity to get all microelements for a healthy life.

Thus, if nobody can pinpoint why they are dying, you need to change their diet. In this case, you can temporarily switch to vegetable-based foods (blanched kale, spinach, or zucchini) and feeding sparingly. However, keep in mind that shrimp can live without protein only for a short time.

One of the most successful shrimp breeders on YouTube had this situation. Guess what happened next? His colony of Crystal Red Shrimp turned cannibalistic!

They need protein and if you do not give it to them, they will solve the problem in their own way.

...about halfway through the article this next topic is mentioned, which sort of put things into perspective.

https://aquariumbreeder.com/how-to-supplement-shrimp-and-snails-with-calcium/
 

Quote

Actually, mineralization is a process of mineral deposition into soft tissues, which form a protective shell for snails (exoskeleton – for shrimp). The shell is formed by calcium carbonate and other trace minerals found in the tank. Calcium carbonate is the major component of various minerals.

Basically, we enrich the water with essential minerals, so that our pets could use them. Aquarists simply call this process – mineralization.

In shrimp, during the pre-molt stage, some of the calcium carbonate in the cuticle is partially dissolved and stored inside the body temporarily for reuse in the newly formed cuticle after molting. In the case of crayfish, the calcium carbonate is stored in the stomach as a pair of stones.

From the note about Shrimp King Mineral:
 

Quote

Unlike crayfish, shrimps must regularly ingest minerals, as they do not have gastroliths (stomach stones) in order to store them.

So.... that's the crux of it then.  Am I feeding enough "complete foods"? Or, better stated, is feeding complete foods alone enough for the shrimp themselves to molt properly every time?  Do they specifically need mineral additives to eat off of for the sake of their overall health.  Is a mineral additive food something that I can use for the sole sake of times of stress, like once a month or after water changes, perhaps...

I saw these, and I think this might be the route to go, given my current setup.  I have to look into ingredients and decide on things.  There is also a nordic food version, shrimp king version, but I think this is a good place to start.

 

There is one other things to consider though, and this is basically my dilemma right now.

......😞   I tried to find the sentence, but it's basically that shrimp need a lot of different types of minerals to function properly.  Diet plays a huge role, having a varied diet also plays a role.  I noticed issues when I ran out of bee pollen.  Is this one of the main reasons I was experience the deaths en masse?  I added a secondary food, I improved the food, but perhaps there are some key vitamins or minerals missing. 

Everything I am finding for shrimp diets can be split into 3 main categories.
-Calcium/Mineral supplements
-Nutrient supplements (aminostix / specialty foods, botanicals)
-Bacteria supplements (to build biofilm in the tank or probiotics)

I don't have any real idea if I need to have both nutrient and mineral things covered or if those complete foods supply everything the shrimp need.  I did check the shrimp baby ingredients and it is one I will be adding whenever that can be possible.  Bee pollen is another that I think will be a mainstay in my tanks.

Current foods:
-Dennerle Shrimp King Complete (stick and powdered)
-Nordic daybyday (stick)
-Repashy powder (mix of things, mostly omnivore food)
-botanicals/mulberry leaves

Future plans:
-2 Complete foods on rotation
-1 baby/powder food
-1 mineral food
-Bee pollen
-mulberry leaves / alder cones
(potentially: 1 nutrient supplement or biofilm type of foods)

I am just mulling all of these things over.  I am not sure what is correct, so it's purely a research stage and pondering everything.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:41 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I noticed issues when I ran out of bee pollen

I do not feed bee pollen, and I do not have issues.

Here is a fun video I recently took.

 

On 1/20/2024 at 12:41 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

During molting, the shrimp is filling its shell with water

Cool!  Shrimps are dope.

I feed:

boiled veggies

catappa leaf

Repashy Soilent green (as powder but also prepared. More often powder if shrimplets)

Bacter AE

calcium chips (crayfish empire)

Kat’s Aquatics snail food (3-in-1)

Hikari shrimp cuisine

 

Sometimes:

algae wafers

Hikari crab cuisine

snail cookies (crayfish empire)

 

Also they are eating algae and biofilm off of things.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/20/2024 at 4:21 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I do not feed bee pollen, and I do not have issues.

Correct! But you also feed things like veggies and the snello stuffs.  That's part of what mine might be missing?

One of the things I had discovered after all this went down was how much they really devoured some leaves.

[Shadow]

On 1/20/2024 at 9:16 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Correct! But you also feed things like veggies and the snello stuffs.  That's part of what mine might be missing?

One of the things I had discovered after all this went down was how much they really devoured some leaves.

I use a lot of botanicals. I found that the microfauna and microfilm grow best in alder cones. I also love to boil my catappa leaves and other botanicals, leave them sitting in the tannic liquid for a week to create a biofilm before adding to any of my shrimp tanks. I am not too big on adding a lot of food to my tanks, hence the reason I use the shrimp sticks my dude on Etsy creates and the shrimp jerky(as he calls it). I use Bee Pollen for sporadic uses to feed shrimplets. I am super weird on adding a lot of food to my caridina tanks as its raises the TDS more often than not and I am extremely cautious with my parameters with these more so than my neos. Fun Fact: my cherries I added to my mother's office 10 gal have EXPLODED! Shrimplets all over. They basically lives off of whatever leftover fish food her fishies get. They do throw way more wilds than I thought though...so that is something I take into consideration if I were to mess with cherries in the future. Love the insight here tho! Tank redo looks great!

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:32 AM, Shadow said:

Fun Fact: my cherries I added to my mother's office 10 gal have EXPLODED! Shrimplets all over. They basically lives off of whatever leftover fish food her fishies get. They do throw way more wilds than I thought though...so that is something I take into consideration if I were to mess with cherries in the future. Love the insight here tho! Tank redo looks great!

Thanks!

It's because that 10G gets all that protein! Interestingly I have the same shrimp going in two different setups, one is the actual shrimp colony and the other is the cull tank. Basically, one gets all the nice food, the other has a ton more surface area and would graze off all the surfaces a lot more regularly. They get the leftover fish food a lot, shrimp sticks once a week or so, but it's mostly the same care.  With the shrimp only tank filtration is purely sponge, but the big tank has much more biological filtration. More flow, basically. I have had a lot less breeding in the cull tank with the fish food diet.

One of Mark's shrimp tank original videos was about how goldfish flake is a good shrimp food.

[Shadow]

On 1/20/2024 at 11:08 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Thanks!

It's because that 10G gets all that protein! Interestingly I have the same shrimp going in two different setups, one is the actual shrimp colony and the other is the cull tank. Basically, one gets all the nice food, the other has a ton more surface area and would graze off all the surfaces a lot more regularly. They get the leftover fish food a lot, shrimp sticks once a week or so, but it's mostly the same care.  With the shrimp only tank filtration is purely sponge, but the big tank has much more biological filtration. More flow, basically. I have had a lot less breeding in the cull tank with the fish food diet.

One of Mark's shrimp tank original videos was about how goldfish flake is a good shrimp food.

I LOVE MARK! When I eventually go to Scandinavia to visit friends there, I want to try to make it out to meet him hopefully. Have chatted with him via YT before, real nice fella. Prob the most knowledgeable shrimp keeper there is. HIGHLY advise anyone interested in being successful in this part of the hobby to watch him before they get going. @Cory and @Zenzo should have him on for a TED Talk in the Members Only area for Neos & Caridinas. 

[Cory]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:06 AM, Shadow said:

I LOVE MARK! When I eventually go to Scandinavia to visit friends there, I want to try to make it out to meet him hopefully. Have chatted with him via YT before, real nice fella. Prob the most knowledgeable shrimp keeper there is. HIGHLY advise anyone interested in being successful in this part of the hobby to watch him before they get going. @Cory and @Zenzo should have him on for a TED Talk in the Members Only area for Neos & Caridinas. 

In General we don't invite active youtubers to be the members only talk. People can go and watch their current content. It's not that we don't think they're good, but we want to provide something that isn't already available easily to the members.

[nabokovfan87]

Woke up and they were swarming, meaning want food or breeding behavior.

I dropped in food and Riddick decided to sit in one of the food dishes. 😂

So many shrimp....

[Shadow]

On 1/21/2024 at 11:47 AM, Cory said:

In General we don't invite active youtubers to be the members only talk. People can go and watch their current content. It's not that we don't think they're good, but we want to provide something that isn't already available easily to the members.

Gotcha. Just always felt given the right platform, he might even go further into his knowledge which seems to be boundless. Appreciate the response!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:06 AM, Shadow said:

I LOVE MARK

He and I were emailing back and forth when I was dealing with scutariella japonica. Very nice guy, willing to help people out.

[nabokovfan87]

I'll post here because today was shrimp tank day!

There's a lot to get into, but let's just try to do this rapid fire style.

A.  The pups got sick, parvo, and we have a new puppy upstairs.  Zoey and buddy are both home for the first time today recovering.  I am basically monitoring them 24/7 and not even sleeping in my room at this point until I know they are ok.  It's a traumatic disease, for me and for them, which isn't something I would ever want anyone to experience.  This just means time with the tanks is very minimal right now.  Normally we (the pups and I) spend the morning watching the lights come on and they rest while I work on anything I need to.

B.  The most recent thing I did with the tank was trying to fix the floating plants not thriving issue, which it does seem the light was too dim!  Good to see it working out now.  I do see growth, I might even have to turn it up a bit more.

C.  I was trying to cull the tank, nothing too serious, but before things got hectic I found one male I wanted to pull, lost it, pulled it a few days later.

D.  GH and KH tested, things were good.  A big thanks to @Chick-In-Of-TheSea for some cuttlebone and other goodies to try out!!!!  It was fun to compare and contrast some foods with the ones I am used to.  KH seems to be better now, which is great. 

I believe that the random deaths I have been experiencing were basically due to water parameter issues, but also exacerbated by food issues.  My schedule is to feed powder 1-2 days a week and then to feed mineral based foods on Sunday.  They get one day off a week, but I do feed this tank relatively heavy every day now.  This is a lot less than I was feeding when I was experiencing those deaths.  If I had to calculate how much food I'm feeding, it's about enough food for 175-200 shrimp per day, daily.  (4-5 sticks per dish, each stick feeds "15-20 shrimp")

I hope all is well with everyone.  Thanks for following along!

Edited February 29 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Sorry to hear about the pups. Do you think the parvo illness was brought in by the new pup? 

Are the shrimps molting ok now?  I’ve been trying to follow MST advice. If they are swimming around, feed. If they are standing around, skip feeding. But I do add Repashy or bacter AE if I see brand new shrimplets. Also doesn’t he give his shrimps crushed goldfish food? I haven’t tried that. I always worry about them consuming too much meat based protein which could create the white ring.

Edited March 3 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea
Shortened post

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/2/2024 at 3:26 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Are the shrimps molting ok now?  I’ve been trying to follow MST advice. If they are swimming around, feed. If they are standing around, skip feeding. But I do add Repashy or bacter AE if I see brand new shrimplets. Also doesn’t he give his shrimps crushed goldfish food? I haven’t tried that. I always worry about them consuming too much meat based protein which could create the white ring.

It was in one of his newer QandA style vids, basically talked about the misnomer or confusion behind shrimp and protein.  I can dig it up, but it's a great question to bring up or ask whenever he does the next one!  From what my sleepy mind can recall, the female shrimp especially need protein for the sake of egg production and overall strength. I don't feed bacteria at all, but I do have the botanicals creating that mix in the sand which is helpful with that bacteria growth. I also have the wood in there, similar thing going on for biofilm which feeds all the meiofauna that the shrimp would be going after in the wild.  I've got two detailed studies on that topic specifically that are a fun read.

As far as molting... The stuff you sent definitely helped and I do think my GH/KH was causing a bit of the issues.  The other issue that I was having was that my mindset was that feeding a "complete food" meant that they had enough calcium and I didn't need to really stress over dietary issues apart from rotation of complete foods. Come to find out that there might not be enough calcium in there.... Or not feeding enough in general.... Which lead to vitamin and mineral issues.  Not having what they need to have the strength to get through the molting, which is where that protein comes into play.

It's much improved, but I did pull a body out yesterday. With things going on my care and eyes on the tank have been lacking. BUT! The floating plants might be growing decently well enough now with the light adjustment.

On 3/2/2024 at 3:26 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Sorry to hear about the pups. Do you think the parvo illness was brought in by the new pup? 

Zoey just took the last of her meds tonight, Buddy has 2.5 days left. They are just needing to recover, relax, but doing ok.

Best guess is that the other puppy didn't get sick, but the trips to and from for getting shots and checked out from the vet/store may have been where we tracked it into the house. It's really tough to say.  My energy has been really just focused on 24/7 care for them and hoping they are ok in the end.

[nabokovfan87]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Omg.....

A. Botanicals

B. Shrimp only tank

C. "No water changes" because floating plants

D. Wasn't able to siphon the substrate for weeks. (Or clean filter)

Results:

@Fish Folk what are the odds I add some elasomma species to this tank and they eat my worm enemies?

[Fish Folk]

On 3/13/2024 at 3:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Omg.....

A. Botanicals

B. Shrimp only tank

C. "No water changes" because floating plants

D. Wasn't able to siphon the substrate for weeks. (Or clean filter)

Results:

@Fish Folk what are the odds I add some elasomma species to this tank and they eat my worm enemies?

I'd probably hope for a 65% success. You'll need to add enough Elassoma to nail the nematodes....

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:54 PM, Fish Folk said:

I'd probably hope for a 65% success. You'll need to add enough Elassoma to nail the nematodes....

"So you're saying there's a chance..."

What do you mean? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused. There's a ton of worms all over the tank, there always seems to be a ton. The amount I pulled didn't even make a dent in them.  I was thinking I might be able to add 3-5 fish?

Right now it is either (or both) white clouds and the elassoma species.

[Fish Folk]

On 3/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

"So you're saying there's a chance..."

What do you mean? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused. There's a ton of worms all over the tank, there always seems to be a ton. The amount I pulled didn't even make a dent in them.  I was thinking I might be able to add 3-5 fish?

Right now it is either (or both) white clouds and the elassoma species.

I think Elassoma and White Clouds could live happily together with no heater.

Probably... detritus worms (?) Not sure...

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:13 PM, Fish Folk said:

Probably... detritus worms (?) Not sure...

Yes detritus worms. I am just unsure if they would eat them. Not a lot of fish do.

On 3/13/2024 at 2:13 PM, Fish Folk said:

I think Elassoma and White Clouds could live happily together with no heater.

🙂 I would enjoy the contrast a lot as well.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/13/2024 at 3:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea

Omg.....

A. Botanicals

B. Shrimp only tank

C. "No water changes" because floating plants

D. Wasn't able to siphon the substrate for weeks. (Or clean filter)

Results:

@Fish Folk what are the odds I add some elasomma species to this tank and they eat my worm enemies?

I don’t siphon or clean my filter, or do water changes in the shrimp tank very often. I test but find water changes aren’t warranted based on the readings. Sometimes I see one worm. Not sure why the worms gravitate toward your tanks so much @nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:08 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I don’t siphon or clean my filter, or do water changes in the shrimp tank very often. I test but find water changes aren’t warranted based on the readings. Sometimes I see one worm. Not sure why the worms gravitate toward your tanks so much @nabokovfan87

I've been feeding a metric ton.... 😞 

Might explain the deaths too? 

IDK.  I ordered some white clouds for now which will live with the shrimp long term.  I'll move out one of the plecos.  SAE for the big tank for BBA control.  We'll see if they like wriggly food.