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Help with PH


SugarBassJoe
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I've been having trouble raising the Ph in three of my tanks, they are the three longest running tanks if that can help, The oldest being a year, the youngest being 3 months. Water out of the tap reads:

Nitrate-0ppm

Nitrite-0pm

GH-300ppm+(maxes out the strip)

KH-Between 80-120ppm

Ph-8.0

But now the tanks sit around:

Nitrate-25ppm

Nitrite-0ppm

GH-300ppm

KH-0ppm

PH-6.5

I'm trying not to overdo the water changes, I would normally do around a 1/4 of each tank every week, if needed that is, they were really stable for a while, the guppy tank was the first to start dropping, I figured it was due to the extra bio load from the all the fry coming in every month. I increased the water changes to twice a week, 1/4 of the tank at a time, feel like I made a mistake last week doing a 40% change, had a big bacteria bloom. I've been running crushed coral in a hang on back for a couple months to increase the KH, but now I'm still reading 0ppm KH. After each water change ill increase the KH to about 80ppm and raise the PH to 6.8, but the next day it'll go back to reading KH-0ppm and PH-6.5. Same story for the other two, but I don't do the extra water changes or run crushed coral in them.

I've been considering using Seachem neutral PH and Alkaline Buffer, but I'm weary since my tap water reads the way it does, I don't want to overload the water with extra stuff if I don't have to, but my current methods seem unsuccessful for now. 

Hoping someone can steer me in the right direction, thanks!

 

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On 12/23/2022 at 9:16 AM, Fish Folk said:

Test source water. Your 0 KH is why it’s crashing. That’s your “buffer.” Once that’s cut through, pH topples. Happens in most of my tanks. Add crushed coral to help counteract.

Is the KH in the tap not enough? and should I add more coral to the HOB? I started with a pound for a 10G a few month back, there's still a good amount in there.

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Was replying quickly. Sorry for some incomplete thoughts.

It is worth doing a new test on your tap to ensure that KH is still up 80-120. If you _just tested_ this would be simply a double-check.

As humic acids build up from decay, KH gets hit hard. An overstatement here… but generally speaking, all organics tend to render water more acidic.

If you’ve already got that much crushed coral in your tank… I’m puzzled!

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With GH that high it takes a really long time for the crushed coral to dissolve and do anything.

Make sure there's nothing decaying in the tank (dead fish, dead plants) and make sure you're gravel vaccing at least part of the tank when you water change to remove decaying fish poop, not just changing the water.

Edited by Katherine
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You have what is called old tank syndrome. Meaning, you need to change more water volume or to change the current amount more often.

Your water might be very unstable. You also need to run an off gas test. Aerate your tap water for 24 hours with and airstone and then test that for PH/KH/GH.  That is what your tank sees when you change water.

 

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That all makes sense, the tanks are fairly heavily planted, I'm usually vacuuming the gravel when I do change water, but I do see dead/dying leaves,  ill make sure to be more diligent on removing those. I didn't think to aerate the water before testing, ill make sure to do that soon, thank you all.

At this point is using crushed coral a waste of time?

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I have a question are you having band issues with your fish? 
My numbers

Nitrate-0ppm

Nitrite-0pm

GH-300ppm+(maxes out the strip)

KH-Between 0-20ppm

Ph-6 to 6.8 depending on the tank 

Breed Guppies(several varieties),corys,plecos(bristlenose,L134,L333), angelfish. 
 

the rise in nitrates would just start to worry me a little. Are you cleaning the filter material/replacing it? I do not chase my water parameters. My well is what it is. I do try my numbers to look for changes. I’m going to @Fish Folk and ask about an opinion. Maybe @SugarBassJoecould backdown some of the things they are doing to the water changes and see how things stabilize. I have found once you start tossing the kitchen sink at things it is not the best. What do you think?

 

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On 12/23/2022 at 11:57 PM, rockfisher said:

I have a question are you having band issues with your fish? 
My numbers

Nitrate-0ppm

Nitrite-0pm

GH-300ppm+(maxes out the strip)

KH-Between 0-20ppm

Ph-6 to 6.8 depending on the tank 

Breed Guppies(several varieties),corys,plecos(bristlenose,L134,L333), angelfish. 
 

the rise in nitrates would just start to worry me a little. Are you cleaning the filter material/replacing it? I do not chase my water parameters. My well is what it is. I do try my numbers to look for changes. I’m going to @Fish Folk and ask about an opinion. Maybe @SugarBassJoecould backdown some of the things they are doing to the water changes and see how things stabilize. I have found once you start tossing the kitchen sink at things it is not the best. What do you think?

 

I think the overall health of fish is a key. Fish are sometimes the best “living test strips.”

I also agree that chasing ideal water parameters is an act of vanity.

Edited by Fish Folk
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You should consider or accept the possibility that this can’t be fixed without either restarting the tank, or doing whatever you need to lower the bioload. 

I experience the same conditions you and others are experiencing, in tanks that carry a high bioload of snails. These are usually tanks that must be heavily fed in order to sustain whatever fish or critters I have in there. At some point, KH is reduced/stripped/eliminated and ph crashes. 

But, what are the actual risks?

When ph is that low, you’d need a lot of ammonia to harm your fish. If you have any in the first place. Nitrate can build, and can be changed out via water changes. But water changes won’t fix the ph/KH issue unless the bioload is fixed - the organic processes that are occurring in the tank just strip all the KH you add via changes, almost as fast as it’s added. 

I think the bigger risk is the fish you are breeding won’t do as well in “normal” water, assuming you’re selling them locally. 

Final thought: having had this problem, and having tried to fix it a few ways without fixing the bioload problem, I really recommend either breaking the tank down, or living with it as is. I’ve tried crushed coral and even direct addition of baking soda (small amounts at a time not massive doses I’m not insane). None of these will keep parameters stable (where you want them) because you still have to change water and that means more dosing. 

My 2c. 🙂

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Sorry for the delayed reply, holiday weekend and all. Use regular inert substrates, gravel and sand. Now that i'm back i will aerate my tap water and get a reading tomorrow. I do have a lot of plants, so most of the nitrates are coming from the fertilizer, i never let it get above 50, if that. I'll clean the sponges maybe once a month, if needed. I wouldn't say i'm chasing perfect water, but i do want to keep it closer to the parameters of the tap, because i know i'm going to start trading/ giving away fish and i don't want them to die off right away on anyone, so this is the main reason for my concern. The fish themselves do well for me, no noticeable signs of stress. I can see the bio load being an issue for the guppies i'm raising, i'm always trying to maintain their tank, but that would be the only tank i would consider over stocked, i have other tanks with a few fish and snails and see the same readings, really want to avoid adding things to the water, but hoping to avoid restarting the tanks all together, though, i'm not opposed to this.

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