tolstoy21 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) So I've had L397's for about 1 1/2 years now. Other than caring for them, I really don't pay much attention to them, assuming they had to be a bit older to breed. I also use my L397 tank to keep neocadina culls where they breed like mad. Every week or so, I go in and pull out any good looking shrimp and put them back into their colony, and then feed the rest to my fish. Today when I was netting out shrimp I noticed one, lone little wiggler in the sand, attached to its yolk sack. Totally blew my mind. I have all the pleco caves under a really thick piece of bog wood. It's hard to see under the log's overhang and into their caves so I figured I would lift the wood to get a better view. On the bottom side of the log were a couple juvenile L397s who quickly scurried off into a big patch of java fern! No idea how many are actually in there. So . . . . . . . . excitement (and long story) over, I now have a question or two! Is there any advantage to actively removing fry or eggs from the caves, and putting them in an egg tumbler or breeder box respectively, or, is it best to just let the parents do their thing and rear the fry? Do you get more fry by pulling them or by having the parents raise them? One fry got kicked out of the cave, but I didn't see any others. I'm guessing this is typical? Should I be looking for others? Also, should I be monitoring these fish more for signs that they are breeding or that they have fry in their caves? Any advice? This is my very first experience with spawning plecos of any sort. Thanks for once again for reading one of my typical, wordy posts if you got this far! Edited November 15, 2022 by tolstoy21 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllFishNoBrakes Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Congrats! I wish I had some first hand knowledge to pass on, but I have yet to add Pleco’s of any kind to my “have bred” list. I have some thoughts though: -Are you wanting just a few more as they happen, or are you looking to maximize your numbers? If you wanna just see what happens it sounds like you’re on the right track. I’d be throwing some green beans or zucchini in there so that any small fry (and inevitably the adults, too) have a constant food source. If you’re looking to maximize numbers I’d be looking for males trapping females, then I’d be pulling the eggs and hatching them in a tumbler. From there, I’d be raising them in a separate tank until they’re big enough to go back in the main tank. Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it’s worth and best of luck moving forward! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Wow, so cool, congratulations! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 Ok, I just emptied one of the caves. It held about a dozen fry. Another pleco is sitting on eggs. Don't have a tumbler so I guess I'll just have to let these hatch out with the parent as well. There are probably some more fry scurrying about, but I'll just let them grow out in the tank and leave them be. I seriously had no idea at all these fish were already breeding. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsfoxtail Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Congrats! They're absolutely adorable! As a noob pleco keeper I have no advice but am curious to see if you soon find yourself with a much bigger colony! Especially if there's already another clutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 If you don’t have any fish in there other than the plecos, there’s no real need to pull the eggs or fry until you’re ready to sell or trade. Just keep feeding and water changing as you have been since you’re clearly doing it right! I don’t currently have a set up with only plecos that are ready for breeding so I’m pulling fry as they get close to coming out of the cave so my angels don’t help themselves. I’m about to set up a pleco breeding tank with L519’s and L290’s. I’m starting only with what I hope is a pair of each (they’re a little young to be certain) but if they prove not to be pairs, I’ll find more and add them. The tank will likely end up as an early angel growout until they get big enough to interfere with baby plecos, then angels will get moved if I happen to have any when baby plecos are coming. Oh, and congrats, of course! Beautiful fish! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwissAquarist Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 11/15/2022 at 3:58 AM, tolstoy21 said: Ok, I just emptied one of the caves. It held about a dozen fry. Another pleco is sitting on eggs. Don't have a tumbler so I guess I'll just have to let these hatch out with the parent as well. There are probably some more fry scurrying about, but I'll just let them grow out in the tank and leave them be. I seriously had no idea at all these fish were already breeding. Talk about lucky! 🥳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) @Odd Duck The tank is only L397s and neocaridina culls. It's a 40 breeder with 9 adults. I do plan on selling them so I should probably get in the habit of pulling them and moving them to grow outs just to make things easier so I'm not always pulling the adult's tank apart to net fish out. I'm happy that they spawned on their own without me having to do the whole 'trigger spawning' song and dance. The water is very clean in this tank as a large volume of it auto-changes out daily. I have a Aquaclear 110 full of PolyFil and ceramic media (yes, totally oversized!!) to filter it and it does a very good job of pulling out all the crud that plecos deposit daily (aka wood-filled poop!) I guess the clean, somewhat acidic water conditions did the trick? Edited November 15, 2022 by tolstoy21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenman Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Plecos are good parents, so you don't have to worry about keeping the fry with them. They won't eat them and will live with them. The only time I rear them away from the parents is when a rival female sneaks into a cave and kicks out the existing eggs to replace them with her own. I'll then harvest the eggs rather than leave them exposed in the tank. The fry yield is about the same either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) On 11/15/2022 at 8:32 AM, gardenman said: Plecos are good parents, so you don't have to worry about keeping the fry with them. They won't eat them and will live with them. The only time I rear them away from the parents is when a rival female sneaks into a cave and kicks out the existing eggs to replace them with her own. I'll then harvest the eggs rather than leave them exposed in the tank. The fry yield is about the same either way. Thanks for the response. I think I'm going to get in the habit of pulling them, only because I plan on selling them, and keeping them in grow outs allows me to have a better understanding of how many fish I have available, how they are doing, and keeps me from tearing apart the parents' aquarium to find and net fish, which I find causes a decent amount of stress to some fish species if you have to do it frequently. Again thanks for the response. Truly appreciated! Edited November 15, 2022 by tolstoy21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I'd 2nd leaving them with Dad. To be honest they are not overly sensitive like cichild eggs and Dad tends to do a good job; the real issue is making sure the water is kept super clean and they get enough food once they start eating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwissAquarist Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I find that removing the wrigglers can help if the L397s have spawned in a community tank, but in this case leave them with the parents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) @anewbie @TheSwissAquarist Thanks for all the pointers everyone. At this point, I think this is now less about if the fathers will be good care-takers, or if the fry will get eaten, and more about what works best for me in my scenario. If pulling them and leaving them in the parents' tank have the same outcome in terms of survivability and fry/juvenile health, I'm going to pull them. Edited November 15, 2022 by tolstoy21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I try to pull wigglers right before they start bouncing out of the cave. Dads usually do a great job of fanning eggs so it isn’t typically necessary to pull them before that. I think sometimes fry still with their yolk sac can be injured while trying to dump them out of the cave so I try to leave them in until dad is hanging at the front of the cave. That’s my signal to pull them. It doesn’t disrupt the tank much to pull a cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Congrats @tolstoy21 im 0 for every pleco group ive ever had including the L169s that have been here since 2018. No advice just awesome to read this thread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) On 11/15/2022 at 8:01 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: Congrats @tolstoy21 im 0 for every pleco group ive ever had including the L169s that have been here since 2018. No advice just awesome to read this thread Do you have wood caves for them? Planetcatfish mentions specifically that they pick wood caves. 🤷🏻♀️ Edited November 16, 2022 by Odd Duck Insert dropped word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/15/2022 at 6:01 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: Congrats @tolstoy21 im 0 for every pleco group ive ever had including the L169s that have been here since 2018. No advice just awesome to read this thread Considering the things you have gotten to spawn, that's tough to hear! I would be very intrigued to hear all about the setups you have, especially the L169s! I have had some stubborn breeders too and I know all the common tips don't always work out. If you haven't, check out plecoceramics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOtrees Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 @tolstoy21 congrats on your kids growing up and adulting!! May I ask, what is your feeding regime for the adults? I’m growing up a group of 397s, and I expect they’re not far from reproductive age. I’ve read they are heavily inclined to eating wood, so the tank has a couple different pieces, and I add a few of the Xtreme scraper tablets daily. Bloodworms or brine shrimp occasionally. Suggestions? Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) @TOtrees I feed Repashy Soilent Green (and Bottom Scratcher, but just occasionally), french cut green beans, zucchini, cucumber, sweet potato, and occasionally frozen brine shrimp. I also sometimes sprinkle BacterAE in there to promote biofilm growth. Probably not necessary, but I have some on-hand for my shrimp tanks so I figured why not? I didn't do any specific conditioning food-wise for this colony since I didn't think they were old enough to breed yet. Good luck! Edited November 16, 2022 by tolstoy21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOtrees Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 9:02 AM, tolstoy21 said: I feed Repashy Soilent Green (and Bottom Scratcher, but just occasionally), french cut green beans, zucchini, cucumber, sweet potato, and occasionally frozen brine shrimp. Thanks!! I forgot to mention that I do feed a variety of veg also. French cut beans and zucchini for the most part, rarely spinach or broccoli. And also repashy bottom scratcher. The difference between the 397‘s and my overstocked growout bristlenose tank in terms of how fast they go through zucchini is striking. My 4 397‘s will absolutely demolish a cube of lightly blanched zucchini overnight, whereas a few dozen 1” bns will barely eat half as much in the same time. May I ask, what do you feed the 397s the most? Or is the list above in that order already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 @TOtrees I don't think I feed them anything the most. It's kind of whatever I feel like that day. But I do try to keep it varied. Well, I don't feed string beans as much as the other veggies because they sometimes clog the HOB filter intake or get stuck inside the java ferns where I don't seem them. I feed bottom scratcher and frozen brine shrimp only occasionally. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 How is it going @tolstoy21? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstoy21 Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 On 11/19/2022 at 10:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said: How is it going @tolstoy21? I could use a raise at work, but other then that everything's going fine. Thanks for asking. Oh, did you mean with the L397s?? They are doing good as well (or to be grammatically correct, doing well as well, but that sound more redundant). I have approximately 50 of them now! Do I smell a future RAOK brewing? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwissAquarist Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) On 11/20/2022 at 2:33 PM, tolstoy21 said: I have approximately 50 of them now! Do I smell a future RAOK brewing? That would be the best one! Also Xmas is right round the corner 😏 Edited November 20, 2022 by TheSwissAquarist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 It would be an epic one for sure and I really enjoy that your first thought is to share the cool new plecos. This is the part where we all wonder what corydoras you have had success keeping previously! 😂 Alright, just me then.... Lol I think everyone could use a pleco, or a few. One of my favorite things to add to a tank is a few pleco species. On 11/20/2022 at 6:28 AM, TheSwissAquarist said: That would be the best one! Also Xmas is right round the corner 😏 It would be! Those apisto were amazing though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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