Dead shrimp, help!

[Sultrysamurai]

Hello! I bought Amano shrimp on Friday. They were eating lots of algae over the weekend,today 5 dead in the sand. I’m so sad. Was it the water GH ( strip test put it at 30) ammonia .25ppm nitrates 7.0. PH around 7.6/7.8

The tank should have cycled, it’s been almost 2 months and I got some help from a friends cycled filter media. 

Please help me fix this so the rest don’t die. 

I put acorns and leaves in to help lower the PH too

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sultrysamurai
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[Matilyn]

What fish food do you use? The ingredients in that should be checked, because some foods contain elements harmful to shrimp. Also, do you have a betta in the tank? If so, it might be killing them. This happened to me so I don't keep shrimp anymore. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 7:23 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

PH around 7.6/7.8

This is likely the cause.  Temperature is the other big trigger for them.

What is the temperature of the tank? Did you find them in one particular spot in the tank?

Last issue would be that they are new and the question of how you acclimated them to the new tank.  Shrimp can be very particular and require a very slow acclimation process sometimes when there is certain kinds of shifts in parameters.

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

This is likely the cause.  Temperature is the other big trigger for them.

What is the temperature of the tank? Did you find them in one particular spot in the tank?

Last issue would be that they are new and the question of how you acclimated them to the new tank.  Shrimp can be very particular and require a very slow acclimation process sometimes when there is certain kinds of shifts in parameters.

Temp stays at 75, I’m not sure how to acclimate them so I just dumped them in the tank after I let the temperature get the same. 
this is the lowest I can get the PH- my tap is over 8 before conditioning.

I'm so bummed, they were scattered along the sand all through the tank. 
 

I thought shrimps were a safe bet, i haven't even got a fish yet.. I’m too scared I’ll kill it. 

[AndEEss]

How did you cycle the tank?

What did you feed the beneficial bacteria between setting it up and now? 
 

A cycled tank should be able to process 2ppm (or more) ammonia per day. The problem implied task there is to either continually add ammonia every day or to add animals when it is actually done cycling. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by AndEEss

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:26 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

Temp stays at 75, I’m not sure how to acclimate them so I just dumped them in the tank after I let the temperature get the same. 
this is the lowest I can get the PH- my tap is over 8 before conditioning.

It's definitely stressful, but I promise you'll get it right.  We've all been there! Don't be afraid to add some life to the tank!!!

Since this is a new tank there's a few things we need to do in order.
A. What are the water parameters? what are you adding to the tank to cycle it? How long has it been setup?
B.  What are you planning for the tank as far as fish? (Community tank, planted community, etc?)
C.  What does your filtration look like, etc?

Once we get through those, then we can add some fish and shrimp.  When you get the fish / shrimp home the first thing you'd want to do is to let them sit in the bag in the tank for about 15-30 minutes to acclimate to the tank temperature. Usually floating the bags is the method that you use for this.  If the tank doesn't have a heater, the bags of fish can just sit in the room for that same amount of time.

For shrimp:  I add mine to a specimen container (or bucket, tupperware, etc.) and then you would slowly add in some water.  You can use an airline hose and drip in water over a little bit of time.  I don't want to set all that up so I just use a little cup and add water in.  Add a very small amount, wait a few minutes, 5-10, and then go ahead and add in more.  Repeat this process until you've doubled the water volume.  Then you would go ahead and drain off as much water as you're comfortable to do so, then repeat this process.  Once you've done this 2-3 times, then you're safe to add the shrimp to the tank.

For fish:  Acclimate to temperature, then go ahead and dump the bag into a net, and put the fish into a tank.  For very sensitive fish you'd want to follow the method above for the fish as well.

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:29 PM, AndEEss said:

How did you cycle the tank?

What did you feed the beneficial bacteria between setting it up and now? 
 

A cycled tank should be able to process 2ppm (or more) ammonia per day. The problem implied task there is to either continually add ammonia every day or to add animals when it is actually done cycling. 

I have no idea. I thought I just had to set it up and leave it alone. There are live plants in there. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:26 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

I'm so bummed, they were scattered along the sand all through the tank.

I thought shrimps were a safe bet, i haven't even got a fish yet.. I’m too scared I’ll kill it. 
 

Don't be! It happens 😞 .  We have all been there and we are all here to help you setup for success! Welcome to the forums 🙂

[AndEEss]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:35 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

I have no idea. I thought I just had to set it up and leave it alone. There are live plants in there. 

Bacteria eat, breathe and make waste just like every other life form. They need food, they require oxygenated water and they make waste in the form of nitrite and then nitrate. 
 

I would suggest you read up on cycling an aquarium before buying any more animals.

[nabokovfan87]

And here is the reward for watching those two!
 

 

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Since this is a new tank there's a few things we need to do in order.
A. What are the water parameters? what are you adding to the tank to cycle it? How long has it been setup?
B.  What are you planning for the tank as far as fish? (Community tank, planted community, etc?)
C.  What does your filtration look like, etc?

Thank you for all that advice!

I’m not sure what I should be adding to cycle. I thought I had to set it up and wait.  I wasn’t aware I had to add stuff. There are live plants. Sand substrate. A sponge filter with air stone. I’ve had a friends thriving tank filter near my sponge filter for over 3 weeks. 
heater set to 75. There was a ton of diatom algae ( why I got the shrimp, once I thought it was safe. ) 

ammonia was around .25ppm

nitrates under 20

nitrites 0

nitrates 7

I have been using the api master test kit. 
thank you!

 

 

[AndEEss]

You have to add an ammonia source for the bacteria to feed on, live and multiply. 
 

Example: I have an autodoser pumping 1mL of 5% ammonium chloride solution into my plant grow out tank every day. That works out to 2ppm ammonia. Right before it goes off, once or twice a week I’ll test the water. 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite, every time, because my filter is full of billions of hungry bacteria eating ammonia and nitrite, and they are fed daily.

Plenty of other ways to do it, too. You can add a bit of organic compost and some fish food, for example. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by AndEEss

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:45 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

I’m not sure what I should be adding to cycle. I thought I had to set it up and wait.  I wasn’t aware I had to add stuff. There are live plants. Sand substrate. A sponge filter with air stone. I’ve had a friends thriving tank filter near my sponge filter for over 3 weeks. 
heater set to 75. There was a ton of diatom algae ( why I got the shrimp, once I thought it was safe. ) 

I just add some fish food.  Add a little pinch every few days.  After about 4-5 weeks it would be cycled and you should be "ok".  There's videos and stuff above that have a better breakdown of that whole process though.  The advice you were given wasn't wrong, just incomplete. 

Sponge filters should be fine.  Are you adding any bacteria from a bottle?  This would let you get the tank up and running sooner. About 2-3 weeks instead of 4-5

Honestly. I probably would've done the same thing as you with the amanos. It very likely was just an acclimation or PH thing.  They tend to only like 7.4 or below. I am dosing in a KH buffer in my amano tank and they are getting right up into your water parameters so I know they can tolerate 7.6, but not 24/7.

Edited October 12, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

  Add a little pinch every few days.  After about 4-5 weeks it would be cycled and you should be "ok".  There's videos and stuff above that have a better breakdown of that whole process though.  The advice you were given wasn't wrong, just incomplete. 

Sponge filters should be fine.  Are you adding any bacteria from a bottle?  This would let you get the tank up and running sooner. About 2-3 weeks instead of 4-5

So these past 2 months have kind of been a waste if I haven’t been adding ammonia. 
 

while I add ammonia what do I do with the live shrimp, won’t they die from ammonia spikes?

I really don’t think I can fuss with this another month or more but I already have all these live plants and live shrimp (for now)

 

thank you for your advice though!

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:07 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

So these past 2 months have kind of been a waste if I haven’t been adding ammonia. 

Not at all. You have nitrates. you have bacteria in there.  You want to see things cycle now.

On 10/11/2022 at 9:07 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

while I add ammonia what do I do with the live shrimp, won’t they die from ammonia spikes?

You don't add ammonia when you have fish / shrimp in the tank. That is purely for fishless cycles. You feed the fish / shrimp or let them eat the algae and produce waste (ammonia).  Then you go ahead and track it through the cycle from ammonia, to nitrite, then nitrate.

If you have a spike, you'd do a 50% water change at that point.

Edited October 12, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[lefty o]

agree, dont add ammonia with fish/shrimp in the tank! i would just very lightly feed the shrimp. dont add any further livestock until the ammonia levels drop.

[AndEEss]

Correct. 
 

Since you’re doing a “fish-in” cycle, the best thing to do is regular testing and water changes (with dechlorinated water).

[Sultrysamurai]

Thank you everyone for your advice!

I really underestimated how difficult this would be. 
 

If and when the shrimp all die from the “toxic” water, do I continue just to put fish food in the empty tank?

 

Also, if the shrimp all die does anyone want to adopt all these plants in my tank because I may throw in the towel at that point as this has become more of a stressor than a hobby. 
thank you.

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:22 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

I really underestimated how difficult this would be. 
 

If and when the shrimp all die from the “toxic” water, do I continue just to put fish food in the empty tank?

 

Also, if the shrimp all die does anyone want to adopt all these plants in my tank because I may throw in the towel at that point as this has become more of a stressor than a hobby. 
thank you.

Please try to be positive!  The shrimp will do well if they are staying alive now and it's been over a week or so.  If you're feeding them, I would recommend feeding them a small amount every 1-2 days.  Don't go crazy at first with the food.  If you aren't feeding them (and they are grazing) go ahead and keep an eye on them and feed them once every 2-3 days while they catch up on algae.

If they do pass, then you'd want to test everything, report back.  Right now, you would want to test daily, at least for the next week. Again, you're trying to track the cycle, so testing every day now is going to allow you to do that.

That being said, if they pass, you'd revert back to doing a fishless cycle.  It's basically the same (for me) with or without fish.  Feed some food, every few days, let it get into the filtration and then seed that with bacteria.  Do this for a few weeks, then add fish / shrimp slowly.

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/11/2022 at 9:53 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

try to be positive!  The shrimp will do well if they are staying alive now and it's been over a week or so.  If you're feeding them, I would recommend feeding them a small amount every 1-2 days.  Don't go crazy at first with the food.  If you aren't feeding them (and they are grazing) go ahead and keep an eye on them and feed them once every 2-3 days while they catch up on algae.

Thank you! I will try this and hope for the best for the little shrimps. 

[Jess]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:26 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

I thought shrimps were a safe bet, i haven't even got a fish yet.. I’m too scared I’ll kill it. 

You've already gotten a lot of good advice, so I'll just address this one comment.  In my personal experience, it's way harder to keep shrimp than it is to keep fish.  I've had 60% survival rate among my fish over the last 2 years, and most of that 40% mortality is a big group of 12 danios that had some unknown parasite (11/12 of them died) + fish that died the day after I brought them home.  Half of the remaining 40% are fish that jumped out when I didn't have a lid (so, easily preventable and due to my own stupidity - ppl are not kidding when they say ALL FISH JUMP), and I lost a few sensitive fish last Fall when the temperature dropped suddenly and my heaters were still off.  Only a handful of my fish died from unexplainable reasons.  Among shrimp, my survival rate is 0%.  This is adding amanos to fully-cycled, relatively seasoned tanks (at least 6 months running with fish and tons of plants).  I have no idea what killed them, so I have never again tried shrimp.  I think I had bought 12 initially.  My parameters: pH 6.4, KH about 30ppm, GH about 100ppm, nitrates 0-50 ppm, temperature 72-76 degrees.

So don't be afraid to add fish.  I'd actually start with fish and only add more shrimp after several months.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Jess
clarity

[JettsPapa]

Hello,

In the post above you listed nitrates twice.  Is the second one supposed to be nitrites?  If yes, that could be the problem, but as @nabokovfan87 said above, if some of them are still alive after a week or so they'll probably be okay.

On 10/11/2022 at 10:03 PM, Matilyn said:

What fish food do you use? The ingredients in that should be checked, because some foods contain elements harmful to shrimp. Also, do you have a betta in the tank? If so, it might be killing them. This happened to me so I don't keep shrimp anymore. 

While some (maybe most) fish food contains copper, it's in very small amounts, and is unlikely to be enough to hurt shrimp.

[lefty o]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:22 PM, Sultrysamurai said:

Thank you everyone for your advice!

I really underestimated how difficult this would be. 
 

If and when the shrimp all die from the “toxic” water, do I continue just to put fish food in the empty tank?

 

Also, if the shrimp all die does anyone want to adopt all these plants in my tank because I may throw in the towel at that point as this has become more of a stressor than a hobby. 
thank you.

hang tight, dont give up yet. just about all of us have had struggles, sometimes big ones. stick around, do a bunch of reading. its not super difficult once you get a handle on it.

[Sultrysamurai]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:37 AM, JettsPapa said:

 

In the post above you listed nitrates twice.  Is the second one supposed to be nitrites?  If yes, that could be the problem, but as @nabokovfan87 said above, if some of them are still alive after a week or so they'll probably be okay.

Yes, sorry nitrites are 0 and nitrates are nitrates are  20ppm. I will say the colors on the API test are not always easy to read haha 

Thank you!

[Miranda Marie]

I know it can be very overwhelming with your first tank, but give it a little time! I lost most of my amanos when I first started out, too, and it was really discouraging, but I kept going and am so glad I did! After the initial stressful phase of learning everything, it becomes a wonderful hobby that's definitely worth it. 💙  My planted tank now basically runs itself with once monthly water changes (I test weekly to be sure of parameters) and I just sit back and enjoy it the rest of the time. So eventually the stressful "starting up" phase ends and the peaceful part begins.