A COLOSSAL IDIOT walks into a pet store....(an illustrated tail - intentional misspelling- of woe)

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:45 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Alllll about the fishes!

So last night I got home after shift to the task of water changes and redosing meds on my four patients. We'll start with the girls: 

Purple Dumbo girl- she's golden- ate her evening daphnia. Still super friendly, rolls up to the front of the tank to see what's going on. She totally reminds me of Falcor the Luck Dragon the way her dumbo fins move and how she swims through the water. She is SUPER fast. She got her 50% water change and a dose of Kanaplex and some aquarium salt. I've pulled the IAL piece from all the tanks to lighten the water up some so I can start to see their coloring better- the water changes will still have the tea- it just won't be as dark. 

GloBetta girl also doing well. She is so casual about her movements in the tank- very calculated. She eats so much better now- ate her daphnia off the surface fine. I did her 50% water change, dosed the Kanaplex and salt and I threw in some floating plants from my Aquatop- her guppy grass was looking pretty sad and it's a very small piece. 

White Twintail Halfmoon is improving little by little- I'm not seeing anymore listing to one side. Now I say this but I don't have a lot of time to observe so he could still be doing it occassionally but during the evening and this morning's feeding I did not observe anything bad at all- he's seemingly swimming totally normal. His fins are SO huge every time he stops they kind of just fold over- I feel bad for the little guy- seems like they hold him back some. Anyway, he eats very well- got his 50% water change with his dose of Kanaplex and Metroplex and salt. 

Red Crowntail still not out of the woods. Poor little guy. He does still eat well (even a bit violently). I've seen him scoot fast across the tank (especially during a water change when it's moving him about)- so he can get around- but he still lists to one side and floats up if he's not got the benefit of sitting in the corner of the tank. I've yet to see him come off the top surface. 😞 He got his 50% water change, doses of Kanaplex and Metroplex. Today during bloodworm breakfast he didn't come to the front corner as he usually does but he still ate fine. 

I'm hoping lightening the water will give me more insight as to what is going on with Crowntail- and help me to observe the others a little better. As I said though, from this point their water will still have IAL tea in it, just won't be as dark as when I put pieces of the leaf in the water. If I have to re-up the leaf I will but I just want to try and see them all a little better. 

Good to see the females brightening up, have you already given some thought to what you’re going to do with them after they’ve recovered?

Congratulations on 50 replies btw!

Your actions inspired me to buy a couple of tetras of which 3 had lost 1 eye. I guess their problem is more physical than bacterial

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:22 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

I think the only reason why it's done is because the 8yo newbie to the hobby loves the look of 'Disco Tetras'.

When I was a kid I had a painted Indian glass fish.  As a kid we are drawn to colorful things and don't really think about what is natural or not.  Pretty sure it was an injected fish based on what I read online.  I had the fish for a few weeks, I think.  The fish eventually died.  It began swimming in circles; and its spine remained curved in a semi-circle.  It didn't seem the fish was able to straighten out.  I don't know what illness would cause that or if it related to the injection after-effects.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:01 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

When I was a kid I had a painted Indian glass fish.  As a kid we are drawn to colorful things and don't really thing about what is natural or not.  Pretty sure it was an injected fish based on what I read online.  I had the fish for a few weeks, I think.  The fish eventually died.  It began swimming in circles; and its spine remained curved in a semi-circle.  It didn't seem the fish was able to straighten out.  I don't know what illness would cause that or if it related to the injection after-effects.

Trapped/stuck muscle from the injection???

I hardly expect that the syringe is sterile too

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@TheSwissAquarist imperfect fish don't always get the attention they deserve- but also a lot of people don't yet have the skill to make a sick fish better. As a more experienced fish keeper I'm willing to try. One eyed fish would be something I'd probably take on- I'm a sucker for a handicapped animal. Clearly a perfect use for a Popeye/Pirate themed tank with the one eye thing going on. Where's my ship....

I'm a decent time span away from deciding what happens with the four of them. Some of it is going to depend on what happens with Crowntail as everyone else seems to be on the way out of whatever illness they've been suffereing from. At least one will definitely stay with me in my Flex9- they will have to play nice with the Guppies and Endlers. One is absolutely going to my Mum's tank, she had 2 ADF and one has passed. She's added my nephew's remnants from his tank which is 2 Neons and 2 Guppies. It's a nice tank and whoever goes there would be a happy fish- again they'd have to play nice. My nephew made his tank into a snail tank but he might be tempted to take one of them- it's ok if he doesn't. So basically what happens with 2 of them is on the iffy side- I have local forums I can try and rehome them on as well. "Worst" case scenario is I end up with another tank. Time will tell. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:03 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

Trapped/stuck muscle from the injection???

I hardly expect that the syringe is sterile too

I don't know but when he bought him he was swimming normally.

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:06 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Worst

Call that worst?!?

Nice idea with the pirate ship theme, matey!

Ahoy Blackscale the one-eyed black neon!!

On 10/12/2022 at 4:07 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I don't know but when he bought him he was swimming normally.

It is a bit of a shame to see stuff like that happening, maybe we should ask for a ‘Unloved fish’ forum for this!?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:09 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

It is a bit of a shame to see stuff like that happening

Fortunately I don't see painted Indian glass fish anymore; only back when I was a kid.  

[Minanora]

Fish!

They are all looking so much better! I am rooting for the red crown tail. The glow girl, her fins are recovering so fast! I know you said Betta are hard to keep but man your speedy actions and methods make you look like a Betta pro. ☺️

 

With their long quarantine you have lots of time to think about their future tank situations. I would get too attached after this journey.... And keep them all. What's one more nano tank going to hurt? 😜

 

Are you dosing food or just the water column for their meds?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:15 AM, Minanora said:

They are all looking so much better! I am rooting for the red crown tail. The glow girl, her fins are recovering so fast! I know you said Betta are hard to keep but man your speedy actions and methods make you look like a Betta pro. ☺️

Thanks! I would do this for any fish I brought home sick, just happy the Betta are responding to it. Red is going to take some time. It's only been almost 2 weeks- he'll probably be a couple of months or 3 before we know where he'll baseline to. That's my estimate at this point. I'm patient enough to wait it out- if he wants to stick around I'll just keep working at it. 

 

On 10/12/2022 at 7:15 AM, Minanora said:

With their long quarantine you have lots of time to think about their future tank situations. I would get too attached after this journey.... And keep them all. What's one more nano tank going to hurt? 😜

 

I do get attached, but I did used to work in shelter rescue so sometimes you have to prepare to let go. Part of this for these little ones is I'm not naming them- they will remain their "designations" until they land in permanent positions. I honestly don't want anymore tanks- but I knew that if I took all 4 I would have to leave that as a possibility. I was looking for a decent divided tank as a possibility but I was struck by how crappy the options are out there- so if I was keeping 2 I'd just get a typical rimmed tank and buy the divider- put lots of plants along the divider wall so it's more like 2 tanks and they'd rarely get a glimpse of each other for stress reduction. OR I'll end up buying a couple of Aquatop cubes and put them on the same shelf near each other. I have not yet decided. These are just thoughts that roll around in my head. 

On 10/12/2022 at 7:15 AM, Minanora said:

Are you dosing food or just the water column for their meds?

Despite opinion that dosing in food is better (and I'm sure it probably is) I've found Kanaplex and Metroplex have worked fine for me in the water column. Of course I have the things necessary to dose in food if I need to change tactics. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
to actually make sense...

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Some dividers here.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Those are nice @Chick-In-Of-TheSea but I have used and prefer these, they're super clear and easy fit: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HYRTZ46/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The ones you suggested say they don't recommend using them for permanent homes but for temporary dividers- might be because some have complained their bettas jumped them- the ones I've used, they can't. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Densely planted along the divider?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea yes, with a peek window here and there maybe but the holes will make great places to put java and other such plants.

[Odd Duck]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:33 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Despite opinion that dosing in food is better (and I'm sure it probably is) I've found Kanaplex and Metroplex have worked fine for me in the water column. Of course I have the things necessary to dose in food if I need to change tactics. 

Just as an FYI, @Minanora, Kanaplex (Kanamycin) is not absorbed to any significant degree when dosed orally, so it should always be used in the water column.  Metroplex (Metronidazole) is absorbed orally but there is something to be said for dosing in the water, too, since it can help remove parasites in their intermediate stages when they are not on/in the fish.  Sometimes it needs to be dosed internally (in the food) but for Hexamita (just as a “for instance”) it needs to be in the water since the organism is on the surface of the fish.  It can also help to dose in the food for Hexamita or other internal parasites.

@xXInkedPhoenixX I think it’s time to try dosing in the food with the Metroplex for the crowntail and see what that does.  I don’t think you need to do all this for the others since they are doing so well.  I also think it’s time to do an Expel-P dose for Mr. Crowntail and see what that does for him.  Not on the same day, but you should be able to dose the Expel-P one day, then the Metroplex daily in food for the next week.  Then Expel-P again, then Metroplex for another week.  Then finally Expel-P again with a last repeat a week later.

Week one (starting at your earliest convenience) 1. Expel-P  2. Metroplex in food daily for 6 days.

Week two - repeat of week one.

Week three - third dose of Expel-P.

Week four - fourth dose of Expel-P.

Next day after fourth dose of Expel-P, and depending on how things are going, this will be time for first dose of PraziPro.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Odd Duck
Add tag.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Garlic guard may help with palatability of medicated food.

[Odd Duck]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:16 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Garlic guard may help with palatability of medicated food.

I don’t recommend garlic in food for sick fish since it’s known to cause liver failure in some healthy fish.  Definitely not for Mr. Crowntail that could have an enlarged liver causing his bulges.

If we had more information on more species on appropriate dosing of garlic, it might be a different story, since it’s known to act as an appetite stimulant.  The studies are all in food fish, none in tropical pet fish, and not all species of animal react the same to different substances.  For me, dosing garlic is almost like a version of Russian roulette (or maybe more like a version of spin-the-bottle) you just don’t know what effect it may have.  Might be good, might be bad.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Odd Duck
Added more info about garlic dosing.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Odd Duck thanks very much for the treatment plan- I will start this with my next water change I think. He eats fine thankfully so I don't believe it will be a problem soaking some bloodworms in it- and I have Focus. He definitely needs to be target fed since he can't hunt the food right now. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I hadn't planned on updating this again so soon but just wanted to share, in addition to a few pieces of daphnia everyone got a chance to eat a pellet or two and everyone took to it well. I use a particular small floating pellet that most of my picky bettas in the past wouldn't refuse:

Anyway what I wanted to share is that Crowntail may have had a small swim forward! He was off the sides this evening during the feeding and moving around "OK"- if he stopped concentrating (I have no other word for it) on the swimming he still floats up to one side as you can see in the right side pic, but he was upright as in the pic (sorry about the reflection, they are right under my chandelier in the kitchen) on the left for most of the time! I was very pleased to see this!

As I type this I'm waiting on a block of bloodworms to thaw, I'm going to mix some focus and metroplex as @Odd Duck suggested and I'm going to refreeze it as a block (reusing the plastic form it came out of) and cut pieces off of it daily- feed him the small pieces that thaw. I think this will work best. Never tried it this way before so I thought I would give it a try. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Minanora]

@Odd Duck your experience and guidance are always well received. Saved several of my fish actually! 😊 You take such care when explaining things.

@xXInkedPhoenixXyou could acid etch glass or sand any polycarbonate or acrylic barrier/divider to make it frosted so they wouldn't fight/stress. It works quite well. Just take the time when sanding by hand or use a sander to get it uniform. It can turn out really nice. You can also heat blast polycarbonate to fog it but it's a difficult art. .... I have too many hobbies...

I'm excited to see potential progress with crown tail! He's so pretty!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ok fishy friends welcome to my continued insanity. This morning everyone got 50% water changes- the 2 girls and 1 boy are no longer being medicated other than the IAL tea and salt. Here are the updates: 

As usual purple Dumbo girl is fine- she's a little pig for being the tiniest of the four- I'm wondering if she's going to stay small because I'm half tempted to plop her in with my CPDs. It's been a thought for the last day or so. I think she'd not only look fantastic in there but she might have fun with the other small fish. I'll have to contemplate that one. 

Then we have GloBetta girl- she's still doing great. I think she's the one that's going to stay with me in my Flex9- I don't believe my Mum would be into her and I think she'd stand out nicely in this pretty dark tank- she'd just have to get along with the Guppies and Endlers. In a couple more weeks as long as things go smoothly I'll try it out. 

White Twintail Halfmoon still very much improving- his beautiful markings are starting to show better. He eats well and moves fine. I'm thinking my Mum might like him best but I'm not sure yet. He still has some time left with me before a decision is made. He looks like beautiful watercolor brush strokes to me. 

Mr Crowntail he's still doing his best. I'll need you to take a look at his pics @Odd Duck- he's getting the medicated food for the last two days and I put in the first dose of Expel P this morning- it will be a bit over 24 hours before I can change his water as directed but that should be ok. My concern is with his pictures today- still has that white discoloration in the same spot but now he's got spots- which aren't ich or epistylus but white discoloring on random scales that I hadn't noticed before (middle pic and top left). Wondering what to do about that. I didn't dose his tank with salt after the 50% water change- figured the medicated food and Expel P was enough for now. He seems tough- this poor little guy. 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:12 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Ok fishy friends welcome to my continued insanity. This morning everyone got 50% water changes- the 2 girls and 1 boy are no longer being medicated other than the IAL tea and salt. Here are the updates: 

As usual purple Dumbo girl is fine- she's a little pig for being the tiniest of the four- I'm wondering if she's going to stay small because I'm half tempted to plop her in with my CPDs. It's been a thought for the last day or so. I think she'd not only look fantastic in there but she might have fun with the other small fish. I'll have to contemplate that one. 

Then we have GloBetta girl- she's still doing great. I think she's the one that's going to stay with me in my Flex9- I don't believe my Mum would be into her and I think she'd stand out nicely in this pretty dark tank- she'd just have to get along with the Guppies and Endlers. In a couple more weeks as long as things go smoothly I'll try it out. 

White Twintail Halfmoon still very much improving- his beautiful markings are starting to show better. He eats well and moves fine. I'm thinking my Mum might like him best but I'm not sure yet. He still has some time left with me before a decision is made. He looks like beautiful watercolor brush strokes to me. 

Mr Crowntail he's still doing his best. I'll need you to take a look at his pics @Odd Duck- he's getting the medicated food for the last two days and I put in the first dose of Expel P this morning- it will be a bit over 24 hours before I can change his water as directed but that should be ok. My concern is with his pictures today- still has that white discoloration in the same spot but now he's got spots- which aren't ich or epistylus but white discoloring on random scales that I hadn't noticed before (middle pic and top left). Wondering what to do about that. I didn't dose his tank with salt after the 50% water change- figured the medicated food and Expel P was enough for now. He seems tough- this poor little guy. 

 

It’s so nice seeing you put in so much work into rehabilitated big these poor neglected fish!!! You’re setting an example for everyone who walks past a sick but saveable fish in a big box store, buy and treat it! Providing it’s not über expensive and you don’t have any meds.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

It looks like half moon has a lump on his side?

I’m hoping crown tail does not have columnaris. Here’s photos of my 2 when they had it. The remedy is a combo of Kanaplex and Jungle Fungus clear fizz tabs. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Odd Duck]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:12 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

white discoloring on random scales

I can’t think of anything that would cause discoloration centered on scales.  It definitely doesn’t look like any parasite I know, certainly not like Ich or Epistylus.  Doesn’t look like Columnaris to me, either.  I wish I had an idea for you, but it doesn’t look like a disease process.  It may be response to disease, like color changes some fish go through with stress, breeding, etc.  I don’t see vertical bars like they can get with stress.  It may only be a normal color change, but whether it’s from improvement or not, I can’t tell you yet.  It could be as simple as not liking the way the meds taste.  I don’t think I would start doing anything different from the current plan as yet.  Let’s see what happens over the next few days.

[Torrey]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:57 PM, Odd Duck said:

It definitely doesn’t look like any parasite I know, certainly not like Ich or Epistylus.  Doesn’t look like Columnaris to me, either.  I wish I had an idea for you, but it doesn’t look like a disease process.  It may be response to disease, like color changes some fish go through with stress, breeding, etc

@xXInkedPhoenixX my CT scale growth appeared to be center of the scale out. I never found any info on it, but every time she got sick she would lose color in the center of the scales over her belly that had gotten distended. Good diet, good water chemistry, stable water chemistry and temps, and eventually she would heal up and coloration would normalize.

I have some vague, probably impossible to substantiate ideas.... got a microscope handy in addition to all your water testing supplies?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, I've treated columnaris before- this isn't it. He's just losing coloring and I presumed it's from being sick/stress and just putting out feelers. 

@Odd Duckyeah wasn't thinking it was "another" disease but didn't want to assume and didn't just want to say "I think it's stress or natural color issue due to being sick" just wanted to see what your reaction was- so I appreciate that. I wasn't too worried. 

@Torrey haven't seen you around for a minute- it's good to see your post. I am sorry to fail you- I have no microscope!