Algae Eater in Small Tank

[wes.crockett]

Hi all,

New to fishkeeping. I have a tank that has 4 tetras (2 black, 2 glow light) and 1 male Betta. I have a few live plants and a few decorations. For algae control, I have a single Assassin snail who isn't doing a whole lot. I have a fairly over sized air stone and use a over-the-back filter that seems to be fairly good overall for the 10 gallon tank its on.

I really want to/need to get an algae eater as the decorations and plants are starting to form layers. I would really like something like a Hillstream Loach which, as we know, would probably be fine in the tank parameters, but I'm just not sure about being too overstocked. Other options would be either Amano or Cherry Shrimp. I like the idea of the Cherry Shrimp breeding, but, I don't want to get too many, though the betta may help with that too. Final option may be some sort of Cory?

What would you go with in this case? Reddit, i'm sure, would say that I'm already a murderer for having any fish in a 10 gallon tank ( /s there, but they are pretty assertive) but many of the videos from AQ Co-op and others seem to be a bit more lenient for fish/gallon on micro tanks.

Thanks all,

Wes

[Flumpweesel]

Well just to let you know corys don't eat algae so there is no answer to your issue in that camp.

Bettas like warm and still water were hillstreams like cool water with good flow/high O2 so that might not be a good match.

Shrimp are great not sure you'll see them much with so many fish for them to hide from but they will still do the work. Other snails like rams horn or nerite would be a win to but the assassin snail probably rules them out.

To my mind this is leaving you with Otto's but they can be tricky to keep if you run out of algae.  

[Intuos]

Welcome to the forum. I'm afraid that the assassin snail won't help with algae as they eat other snails. Your stocking levels are fine and you could add more fish you would just need to keep a close eye on your water parameters and water change as needed. Imo a 10g is a bit small for a hillstream loach, maybe consider getting rid of the assassin snail for a different type of snail like ramshorn or nerite. If you prefer shrimp I would personally go for amano over cherry with a betta. 

[Zenzo]

The assassin snail is going to be focused on eating protein (like other snails...hence the name). With the tank size and inhabitants, I would suggest getting rid of the assassin snail, and getting a nerite snail. The only downside to a nerite snail is that if you have a female, they can lay a bunch of infertile white eggs all over your tank. If you get a male, they are the best algae cleaners in my opinion. Otherwise, a couple of small otocinclus would work. 

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:43 PM, Flumpweesel said:

Well just to let you know corys don't eat algae so there is no answer to your issue in that camp.

DOH! Yeah, Totally meant Otto's, not Corys... my bad. 

As for Hillstreams, yes, I see that is what they prefer as it's their natural conditions, but there is a lot of content out now showing that they can still thrive in calmer and warmer. I would say that, due to my over the back filter pushing down, and my larger than needed air stone, the current is probably higher than the betta would prefer.

On 8/1/2022 at 2:47 PM, Zenzo said:

Otherwise, a couple of small otocinclus would work. 

When I said cory, I totally meant Otto... Glad to see it as a recommendation from you.

For Otto's, do they need to be quarantined? I don't really have a setup for that at this time.

[Zenzo]

@wes.crockett I always advise to quarantine new fish whenever possible, even otocinclus. 

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:52 PM, Zenzo said:

@wes.crockett I always advise to quarantine new fish whenever possible, even otocinclus. 

Fair enough. How long do you do that?

If I got one or two otto's could I just put them in a 5gal bucket with some tank water from a water change and add a sponge filter or something simple? I have an extra heater (78 set-temp) on hand I could use with it.

I am really wanting to get into this but, before my wife lets me go hog-wild, I need to get this first tank (technically my 7 year old's) dialed in.

[nabokovfan87]

Please feel free to show off the tank and the issues you're having 🙂 .  It's helps us out.  some fish might not fit because a piece of decor or something might cause an injury.

A note for otocinclus is that it's recommended to have a piece of wood in the tank.  Mopani is readily available and might work well, others are as well.

As far as quarantine, here is a few resource to check out:
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/quarantine-tank

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Flumpweesel]

If you go the Otto route maybe add a piece of algae covered decor to quarantine (bucket) tank to give them something to eat.

 

[anitstuk]

Hillstream Loaches are great at getting rid of algae but I don't think that they will go well in a 10 gallon. I don't have a nerite snail but I heard that they are also great algae cleaners. Keeping shrimp with Bettas is difficult because Bettas are obviously carnivores so try to go with a bigger shrimp that won't fit in the mouth of the Betta such as Amano Shrimp. 

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 3:29 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Please feel free to show off the tank and the issues you're having 🙂 .  It's helps us out.  some fish might not fit because a piece of decor or something might cause an injury.

1) Nabby for life

2) Posting some photos here

3) I'm going to check out that quarantine video for sure

We just stopped by the LFS and checked out their otto's.. It's so deceiving seeing these fish on YouTube and in photos but then seeing them in holding tanks... always so much more micro in person. They look like they would be great for our tank though.

On another note, just got my first Aquarium Coop shipment in so I gave the strips a go. Thinks look good I think. Can anyone validate from the below shots? I will say, I set this tank up on July 2nd and added six tetras on the 9th, so it certainly wasn't properly cycles (as you can also tell because I'm down to 4 tetras after buying 1 more later... followed by an Ick outbreak).

On 8/1/2022 at 3:32 PM, Flumpweesel said:

If you go the Otto route maybe add a piece of algae covered decor to quarantine (bucket) tank to give them something to eat.

That makes sense! I'll make sure to do that.

On 8/1/2022 at 4:09 PM, anitstuk said:

Hillstream Loaches are great at getting rid of algae but I don't think that they will go well in a 10 gallon. I don't have a nerite snail but I heard that they are also great algae cleaners. Keeping shrimp with Bettas is difficult because Bettas are obviously carnivores so try to go with a bigger shrimp that won't fit in the mouth of the Betta such as Amano Shrimp. 

Amano was what I was leaning towards if nothing else just to not have a huge outbreak of 200 shrimp in 4 weeks..

[anitstuk]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:49 AM, wes.crockett said:

Amano was what I was leaning towards if nothing else just to not have a huge outbreak of 200 shrimp in 4 weeks..

I'm not sure if it is just me but I've had shrimp in good conditions for longer than 4 weeks and they haven't been making babies. I've heard stories of shrimp breeding out of control but it just hasn't happened to me

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:49 PM, wes.crockett said:

1) Nabby for life

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha. 


 

 

On 8/1/2022 at 4:49 PM, wes.crockett said:

It looks like there's some contamination on the results.  Here's a video to help out with that!

 

The tank looks awesome!  What filter is that and how do you have it setup?

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:52 PM, anitstuk said:

I'm not sure if it is just me but I've had shrimp in good conditions for longer than 4 weeks and they haven't been making babies. I've heard stories of shrimp breeding out of control but it just hasn't happened to me

I think it's mainly the cherry shrip.

On 8/1/2022 at 4:59 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It looks like there's some contamination on the results.  Here's a video to help out with that!

The tank looks awesome!  What filter is that and how do you have it setup?

Thanks! Yeah, There are about 100 things I would do differently... Different substrate, different decorations, different plants... lol.

It's a Petco Special... 10gal Aqueon Rimless, Aqueon QuietFlow 10 Pro using their replaceable carterages. I bought a pad of ammonia-reducing filter material for the front and added a Fluval pre-filter. 

Re-test below.

[nabokovfan87]

YEP! So you have the same, very annoying water that I have where the KH is just low enough to cause total Chaos.  From the tap PH is probably 6.8, but after the tank gets a hold it drops to 6.5 and then 6.0 pretty quickly.  Chasing the KH (to keep PH stable) is where I run into issues.

The short version is, your KH (buffer) is 40 ppm right now and you want it at about 80 if you can get it there. Your PH will be around 7.0-7.2 at that point.  If you want to keep certain species with lower PH you can run it at 60 ppm for your KH and PH is about 6,8 and will stay stable slightly longer for you.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

Now the question is, how to do this....

If you can, the easiest way is to add crushed coral to your substrate. it can be pretty sharp so I don't recommend it for some bottom fish, but generally it wears away and is pretty mild.  It is also sold commonly as aragonite but you don't necessarily need to have "that much" to get your KH up 20-40 ppm.  I added ~1 lb to my tank and was in the 60's pretty easily.  I would recommend adding 1-2 lbs to your tank and you'll be "fine".  It's a pain to run it in the filter, but that is an option if you wish. 

FILTER:

Right now you're running the 10G version, you can easily upgrade to the 20 or 30G version whenever you choose.  I would always recommend to replace the cartridges with sponges at the very least.  If you wish, you can also add ceramic media.  Here is the thread with some examples on how to do this!
 

 

Modifying your filter will mean that you have a more stable setup because of how some cartridge filters work they don't really support a ton of bacteria to keep ammonia low.

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:02 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

YEP! So you have the same, very annoying water that I have where the KH is just low enough to cause total Chaos.  From the tap PH is probably 6.8, but after the tank gets a hold it drops to 6.5 and then 6.0 pretty quickly.  Chasing the KH (to keep PH stable) is where I run into issues.

The short version is, your KH (buffer) is 40 ppm right now and you want it at about 80 if you can get it there. Your PH will be around 7.0-7.2 at that point.  If you want to keep certain species with lower PH you can run it at 60 ppm for your KH and PH is about 6,8 and will stay stable slightly longer for you.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

Now the question is, how to do this....

If you can, the easiest way is to add crushed coral to your substrate. it can be pretty sharp so I don't recommend it for some bottom fish, but generally it wears away and is pretty mild.  It is also sold commonly as aragonite but you don't necessarily need to have "that much" to get your KH up 20-40 ppm.  I added ~1 lb to my tank and was in the 60's pretty easily.  I would recommend adding 1-2 lbs to your tank and you'll be "fine".  It's a pain to run it in the filter, but that is an option if you wish. 

FILTER:

Right now you're running the 10G version, you can easily upgrade to the 20 or 30G version whenever you choose.  I would always recommend to replace the cartridges with sponges at the very least.  If you wish, you can also add ceramic media.  Here is the thread with some examples on how to do this!
 

 

Modifying your filter will mean that you have a more stable setup because of how some cartridge filters work they don't really support a ton of bacteria to keep ammonia low.

Greeeaaaatttt... So bad water. nice. ok. I'll have to look in to that more then.

As for the filter, it is rated for up to 20g and it certainly looks to have great flow. Honestly though, I am thinking about switching to the Hygger sponge filter... I really like the idea that it is driven by the air pump (T off from my air stone and call it a day) and, thus, no worry about priming and it looks super simple to clean out. Watched a review about it from KGTroppicals too, who raved about it. I looked in to modifying the Aqueon and it seems engineered against it as opposed to the Fluvals or others.

https://www.hygger-online.com/product/fish-tank-water-filter/

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:41 PM, wes.crockett said:

Greeeaaaatttt... So bad water. nice. ok. I'll have to look in to that more then.

At the old house my KH was just high enough to be stable and it was AWESOME water. It's just finicky right now.  I use Seachem Alkaline buffer when I do WCs.  I wish I had a giant container to precondition water and just do it that way, much more stable.
 

On 8/1/2022 at 7:41 PM, wes.crockett said:

I am thinking about switching to the Hygger sponge filter... I really like the idea that it is driven by the air pump (T off from my air stone and call it a day) and, thus, no worry about priming and it looks super simple to clean out.

Just run both!  ACO has their version of the sponge filter and might work well for you too. I highly recommend the Ziss air stones and a metal gang valve as well (or metal valves in general.

 

On 8/1/2022 at 7:41 PM, wes.crockett said:

I looked in to modifying the Aqueon and it seems engineered against it as opposed to the Fluvals or others.

It's not too bad, just finicky.  I modded mine, not bad at all.  I WISH I still had it.

Edited August 2, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[wes.crockett]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:44 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Just run both!  ACO has their version of the sponges might work well for you too. I highly recommend the Ziss air stones and a metal gang valve as well (or metal valves in general.

I thought about it. What I like about the Hygger is the place for bio-media as well as it being more streamlined (against the wall and such).

 

[PotatoFish]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:24 AM, wes.crockett said:

Hi all,

New to fishkeeping. I have a tank that has 4 tetras (2 black, 2 glow light) and 1 male Betta. I have a few live plants and a few decorations. For algae control, I have a single Assassin snail who isn't doing a whole lot. I have a fairly over sized air stone and use a over-the-back filter that seems to be fairly good overall for the 10 gallon tank its on.

I really want to/need to get an algae eater as the decorations and plants are starting to form layers. I would really like something like a Hillstream Loach which, as we know, would probably be fine in the tank parameters, but I'm just not sure about being too overstocked. Other options would be either Amano or Cherry Shrimp. I like the idea of the Cherry Shrimp breeding, but, I don't want to get too many, though the betta may help with that too. Final option may be some sort of Cory?

What would you go with in this case? Reddit, i'm sure, would say that I'm already a murderer for having any fish in a 10 gallon tank ( /s there, but they are pretty assertive) but many of the videos from AQ Co-op and others seem to be a bit more lenient for fish/gallon on micro tanks.

Thanks all,

Wes

 

Algae Eaters
The otocinclus is fine to put as a single fish of its kind in the tank. I only have one in my community tank. I think it's better to have 1 well-fed oto rather than a small group almost always on the brink because it is a smaller tank. However, if you DO go that route, you could take a rock, drop it in water and keep it in the sun to gather algae. Then, switch it in with one of the rocks in your tank, and take the tank rock to put in the sun...rock on, fish nerm, rock on...

Additional Anti-algae Suggestions
Utilize some fast-growing plants to suck up extra nutrients. Maybe try some floating plants like dwarf water lettuce or frogbit. I'm not sure what your filter set-up looks like, but if it's exposed and out of the tank, "pimp it out" by dropping a pothos leaf/cutting in there.

Test Strips
I saw that you use the whole strip. Cory dropped a great tip in a video that you might like. Cut the strip in half...boom...double the amount of strips, mate.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[wes.crockett]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:06 AM, PotatoFish said:

Algae Eaters
The otocinclus is fine to put as a single fish of its kind in the tank. I only have one in my community tank. I think it's better to have 1 well-fed oto rather than a small group almost always on the brink because it is a smaller tank. However, if you DO go that route, you could take a rock, drop it in water and keep it in the sun to gather algae. Then, switch it in with one of the rocks in your tank, and take the tank rock to put in the sun...rock on, fish nerm, rock on...

That rock suggestion is great! Could totally do that where I live really quickly

On 8/2/2022 at 7:06 AM, PotatoFish said:

Additional Anti-algae Suggestions
Utilize some fast-growing plants to suck up extra nutrients. Maybe try some floating plants like dwarf water lettuce or frogbit. I'm not sure what your filter set-up looks like, but if it's exposed and out of the tank, "pimp it out" by dropping a pothos leaf/cutting in there.

I'll look in to this today!

On 8/2/2022 at 7:06 AM, PotatoFish said:

Test Strips
I saw that you use the whole strip. Cory dropped a great tip in a video that you might like. Cut the strip in half...boom...double the amount of strips, mate.

Oh nice. good call

[Flumpweesel]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:09 AM, wes.crockett said:

their replaceable carterages

Just a note while you are getting snowballed by advice most replaceable cartridges can either be rinsed and reused or replaced by course foam (ppi 30)  cut to size which can then be rinsed as needed. These have the advantage of saving money and allowing the bacteria to establish a better hold in the system. 

All filters have pros & cons so I generally say work with what you have for now and you can road test other types as you get more tanks (I spotted that part of your plan) 

[wes.crockett]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:19 AM, Flumpweesel said:

Just a note while you are getting snowballed by advice most replaceable cartridges can either be rinsed and reused or replaced by course foam (ppi 30)  cut to size which can then be rinsed as needed. These have the advantage of saving money and allowing the bacteria to establish a better hold in the system. 

All filters have pros & cons so I generally say work with what you have for now and you can road test other types as you get more tanks (I spotted that part of your plan) 

Totally. I realized that as soon as I started watching YT videos from all the big creators in this space. I'm thinking about ditching the Aqueon (keep it as a spare) and going for the Hygger Sponge because it has the filter media inside and looks SUPER easy to clean since the sponges slide right off w/out even having to take the device itself out. Also, I like the idea of the air pump doing all the mechanical work of the tank.