Lots and lots of holes

[ArmandoNvs]

Hello everyone,

I have been getting mixed answers on this so I thought I'd post here.

My plants starting getting lots and lots of holes.    I am wondering if it is potassium deficiency or something else?   Some people say it definitely is snail damage, some other people say it is definitely *not* snail damage.  So I am confused 🙂

 

[Guppysnail]

Hi.  Welcome to the forum. Most snails including pest snail do not do damage to healthy leaves unless they run out of food and it is a last resort. Do you supplemental feed your snails?  If your plant is experiencing poor health and the leaves are already dying but not yet visible to us snails can “see” it and will begin eating the leaves. 
 

It could be nutrient deficiency causing the holes. We have some fantastic plant folks who are great at determining That stuff (I am not one of those folks). @Mmiller2001 is exceptionally knowledgeable and helpful with those types of things. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Mmiller2001]

It does look like snail damage. Usually, snails will only chew on struggling plants. There are a few species that will eat plants no matter what and I haven't seen those in my tanks.

Potassium is a mobile nutrient and a K deficiency will appear in the lower leaves typically. I'm seeing the top leaves with holes.

What are you dosing?

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Aquatic plants create allelochemicals* which deter snails and other foragers.  If a plant leaf begins to rot and die, the leaf no longer produces the allelochemicals and the snails/shrimps/etc know they can now eat that.  This is why snails are known to eat decaying plant matter.  The process of creating these chemicals is called allelopathy. I agree with @Guppysnail that you are looking at some sort of nutrient deficiency.

Also, side note - snails will climb on plants and clean algae off of them. Watch them closely to see the results of what they are doing. 🙂 

*Source: Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist by Diana Walstad

Edited June 23, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Patrick_G]

It could be a bit of both snail damage and a nutrient deficiency. The snails don’t generally eat healthy plants, but if there’s a spot with some necrosis they love to chomp away at the dying parts. 

Or maybe your snails just like this particular plant!
 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Patrick_G

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @ArmandoNvs

There could be some nutrient issues going on based upon the very, very small holes in the oldest leaves of the stems and some mottling of the newer leaves; however those large holes in the newer leaves are physical damage.  It could be caused by snails but there are some fish species that like to eat vegetation as well such as plecostomus, and some of the barb and tetra species.  Since the larger wholes holes are only on the newer leaves have you added anything new to the tank in the last few months? -Roy

[ArmandoNvs]

Hi all, thank you for the responses so far.  This tank only has a betta and snails but I have this happening in other tanks as well (i'll get more pics when the lights are on).   When I started seeing the holes I started dosing with Brightwell Florin Multi but it is just getting worse.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/23/2022 at 10:59 AM, ArmandoNvs said:

Hi all, thank you for the responses so far.  This tank only has a betta and snails but I have this happening in other tanks as well (i'll get more pics when the lights are on).   When I started seeing the holes I started dosing with Brightwell Florin Multi but it is just getting worse.

Just curious, what kind of food do you normally offer the snails? And do your other tanks have snails?

[ArmandoNvs]

On 6/23/2022 at 11:39 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Just curious, what kind of food do you normally offer the snails? And do your other tanks have snails?

Pretty much all my tanks have snails.  I only know how to identify the Ramshorns.   I don't typically feed the snails.   They get the leftovers from fish and shrimp.

Edited June 24, 2022 by ArmandoNvs

[Dancing Matt]

are they rooted plants? are you putting in root tabs?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/23/2022 at 11:48 AM, ArmandoNvs said:

Pretty much all my tanks have snails.   I have 50 tanks (shrimp breeder).   They all pretty much have snails, i only know how to identify the Ramshorns.   I don't typically feed the snails.   They get the leftovers from fish and shrimp.

Snails eat more than you think!  🐷

[ArmandoNvs]

Pictures of other plants in other tanks

[Torrey]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:48 AM, ArmandoNvs said:

Pretty much all my tanks have snails.   I have 50 tanks (shrimp breeder).   They all pretty much have snails, i only know how to identify the Ramshorns.   I don't typically feed the snails.   They get the leftovers from fish and shrimp.

They need you to offer them some veggies (see Guppysnail's journal) like blanched cucmber, blanched green bean (skin hulls, no seeds), blanched squash,blanched carrots. Give it 2 weeks, and your new growth will look better.

[Mmiller2001]

Tell me about your fertilization and dosing numbers. What kind of light are you using. What's your GH and KH?

[ArmandoNvs]

I use Brightwell Florin Multi per instructions.  Lights vary per tank.   GH=4 kH from 0 to 3 depending on the rocks I have on the tank. 

[JoeQ]

Im going with the snails have the nutritional deficiency and are eating your plants to get the nutrients. My snails are much happier at a higher gh of 8+

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:37 AM, ArmandoNvs said:

I use Brightwell Florin Multi per instructions.  Lights vary per tank.   GH=4 kH from 0 to 3 depending on the rocks I have on the tank. 

Found your problem. That fertilizer is just a supplement. It also contains no Nitrogen or Phosphorus. It also has no copper, which is a gimmick to sell to people who keep shrimp. Shrimp and plants need copper to live.

It's basically a limited trace fertilizer with no copper. You need to find a comprehensive fertilizer and start dosing.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/23/2022 at 4:03 PM, Torrey said:

They need you to offer them some veggies (see Guppysnail's journal) like blanched cucmber, blanched green bean (skin hulls, no seeds), blanched squash,blanched carrots. Give it 2 weeks, and your new growth will look better.

Mine like blanched zucchini quite a bit. 

 

On 6/24/2022 at 9:00 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

It also has no copper, which is a gimmick to sell to people who keep shrimp. Shrimp and plants need copper to live.

Be careful with "copper sulfate" though - it's my understanding copper sulfate is harmful to snails, if you want to keep the snails.  Not sure how it affects shrimp.

[Torrey]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:00 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

Found your problem. That fertilizer is just a supplement. It also contains no Nitrogen or Phosphorus. It also has no copper, which is a gimmick to sell to people who keep shrimp. Shrimp and plants need copper to live.

It's basically a limited trace fertilizer with no copper. You need to find a comprehensive fertilizer and start dosing.

I second this!

@ArmandoNvs your snails will eat damaged plants. It'sliterally their job. As the plants' nutritional deficiency gets worse, the snails will eat more, and if they detect the roots are unhealthy they will dig up the plants to eat the damaged roots. To get my snails (and shrimp) to stop digging up my plants in my Scapes from Scraps tank, I had to feed the shrimp & snails, and the plants better. Mmiller & Seattle_Aquarist helped me learn how.