Mystery snail mystery - can anyone help?

[Sal]

After 2 "failed" tries with mystery snails, I am trying to adjust and do better.  I love the little derpy guys and want to continue to keep them in my big tank.

They are doing "ok" but do not seem to be thriving.  I will get a batch of 8, and end up with only like 1 or 2 that survive after about 6 months or so.  None of them ever lay eggs (which isn't a big deal, but tells me they aren't happy here?). 

Regular water parameters are all good and stable, below are what I think are the important parameters to review, but let me know if I am missing anything:

pH - 7.5 (so we realize we are on the lower end for mystery snails)
gH - usually around a 10, never below an 8
kH - 6. (is this too low for mysteries?  And if so, will raising it make it too high for the fish?)
Calcium is really hard to measure. Last time I had it at a 4 using the API kit which is really for salt/water (not sure if that matters or if it is accurate?)

I have lots of plants in the tank, and in addition to good quality daily pellets and flake foods, I am using repashy a few times a week, and also tossing in blanched veggies a few times a week.  My fear is always that the snails are not getting enough food?  I never have problems with algae in this tank (knocking on everything wood around me), so they are doing a great job keeping on top of that.

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[Sal]

and sorry - to clarify on Calcium...

I measured 4 drops to change color, which translates to 80 mg/L (ppm) Calcium (Ca2+) on the included chart.

 

[Kurt Brutting]

Your parameters sound great for mystery snails. Where do you buy your snails? Maybe try a different supplier. 
What temp is your aquarium?

[Sal]

It's a mystery!  Pun intended...  😉

Temp is set at 79 which based on google is a good spot for everyone?

I've bought both batches of them from different places.  One batch came from my reputable LFS, the other came from a bigger pet store.  I know mystery snails don't have a super long life expectancy, I suppose it's possible I am buying "middle age" snails that are then dying a few months later?

 

 

[Guppysnail]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:18 PM, Sal said:

It's a mystery!  Pun intended...  😉

Temp is set at 79 which based on google is a good spot for everyone?

I've bought both batches of them from different places.  One batch came from my reputable LFS, the other came from a bigger pet store.  I know mystery snails don't have a super long life expectancy, I suppose it's possible I am buying "middle age" snails that are then dying a few months later?

 

 

I’m sorry you are struggling. I’ve had batches I purchased like this. Yes very possible on middle aged. Also possible elderly. Folks don’t often feed these guys enough and they stay small. I know at my big box stores they forever have gobs of dead smaller ones …they sometimes get to busy to remove them before the public sees them. I would try a small hobbiest on here as those are not raised as a commodity but as pets. 

[Sal]

On 6/21/2022 at 2:23 PM, Guppysnail said:

Folks don’t often feed these guys enough and they stay small

OK!!  this makes sense, because some of the ones I got from big box store were small, so I assumed they were babies...  They were the first that died of this batch! 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Sal

[Kurt Brutting]

I got my purple mystery snail from Flip Aquatics I was very nervous to get him shipped, but he arrived super fast and healthy. I recommend their company for snails and shrimp. 

[Patrick_G]

I’m glad I’m not the only one. My family loves Mystery snails but we have a lot of trouble with them. I’ll be following along to get some tips. 

[Bev C]

@Sal  I am sorry you having trouble, I was not a big snail person tell i started with real plants  i have3 and love them planning on getting 2-3 more . next visit to the LFS  mine must be happy they are big and they and lay eggs  every  1-2 weeks  I agree with Guppysnail they might be older  and  the big box stores is at times not the best place to  get fish and etc ,,I wishing all the best 

[PineSong]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:38 PM, Patrick_G said:

I’m glad I’m not the only one. My family loves Mystery snails but we have a lot of trouble with them. I’ll be following along to get some tips. 

Neither of you are the only ones. I have made the decision to not replace the mystery snails I have now because I am discouraged by the short life spans I am experiencing in my tanks. I'm on my third snail in 12 months in my main kitchen tank and I've lost the second one in my ginga guppy tank. I see the one in my kitchen tank eating duckweed, so I wonder if I am perhaps not feeding them enough, but then I'm inundated with ramshorn and bladder snails so I think I'm over feeding. I don't like the uncertainty. Maybe I would keep one in a species-only tank where I could make sure who is eating what but I won't be adding more to my fish tanks 😞

Edited June 22, 2022 by PineSong
typo as usual

[CJs Aquatics]

When I started this hobby the first success I ever had was with mystery snails, I love them, bought some from a big chain pet store and they bred for me, hatched, the whole nine yards. I didn’t know anything about what I was doing truth be told, I put them in our hard water with guppies and plants, and fed them. Long story short I tried to duplicate this years later after attaining a lot of knowledge and things of that nature. Expecting success I was confused when the same thing your describing happened to me. They were dying off. Recently I dedicated a tank to them, determined. I added crushed coral to my already hard water, and no other chemicals besides easy green for the plants, and prime to dechlorinate. I theorize that the reason they were dying off had little to do with the parameters or age however had everything to do with the combination of them using up the calcium or not enough calcium. I’ve been adding crushed eggshells that I turned to a powder once a week, and I’ve never seen snails this healthy. They literally appeared to have shedded the healthy shell they came with and revealed an even more pristine better conditioned one underneath. I’m convinced calcium is the answer to mystery snail issues, at least it has been in my case so perhaps play around with that would be my best advice. I hope perhaps something in this ramble helped it’s just based on personal experience, trial and error honestly and I wish u the best of luck…

[Darth Mollusk]

I'm sorry you're having issues! I'll throw out a couple things on the off chance it's helpful.

Personally, I wouldn't keep mysteries above 76. The higher the temp, the faster their metabolisms, and the shorter their lifespans (not that mystery snails are especially long lived, unfortunately). But, higher temps make their shells grow faster and thinner. Combine that with not enough calcium (both in food and in water) they will not do well. Cuttlebones (the calcium carbonate kind) and products like wonder shell are good.

Is there any potential source of copper in your tank? Found rocks? Metal? Your tap water? Copper sulfate in food?

Are there any fish in the tank who could potentially be stressing your snails? Their antennae look very tempting to some fish. 

Have you used Meds or salt? 

[Brandon p]

Snail are things that some people can keep and others can’t. A lot of the time it not your problem. I raise them but I couldn’t always. I moved and the water is different. I m in Florida and my tanks are about 80 and a few are in the mid 80’s so you can have them in higher temps. @DarthMolluskis right about the temps cause  those things. My water ranges from ph 6.4 to 7.2. The water is liquid rock but no Ca it’s a lot Mg. I’m just going to add a few things. I go though wonder shell. II raise ramshorns too(I would not put it you tanks they go to the pet store for food). I use the shells from the snails that die and leave them in the tanks. They will eat the shells and the shells dissolve in the water to help with Ca. Most people don’t want to see empty shells. Do you can crush them and put them. Churched eggshell work as well. A little over feed helps not crazy amount but just a pinch more or an algae wafer. They do like peas, beans, cucumbers and, zucchini. Since you have one or two put a small piece in and leave it for a few hours don’t leave set in there to rot though. @Guppysnail is a great reference. She may use snello but if I have a problem with snails I ask her. 

[Guppysnail]

@CJs Aquatics you actually are very correct with the calcium use. Snails need calcium in the water but they also need a calcium source they can consume and metabolize.  My tap often feels like I’m showering in crushed coral.  But I still use the nano banquet blocks from ACO. My snails and shrimp consume them greedily.  Your crushed egg shells are a consumable source where the crushed coral really is not. My snails flock to blanched kale, collard greens and mustard greens as well.  I also add api or Kent’s liquid calcium to my repashy for them. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Kurt Brutting]

@Guppysnailthats a great idea about the Kent’s liquid calcium in repashy. That’s why I love this forum so many gems in these posts. 

@GuppysnailCan you send me a link of the kent liquid calcium you get please? 

[Sal]

Holy crap!!!  How did I never think of this??  I've been very focused on the calcium in the water, but not in the diet!!  Do you think this could be why?  We have added liquid calcium to help raise the calcium in the water, but I've never added it to the rapashy, or given them a banquet block!  😞 I assume they must be getting a little from the veggies, but not enough it seems. 

Thanks so much @Guppysnail and @CJs Aquatics!!!  Maybe I can get it right this time!

[Guppysnail]

@Salvwe can’t truly know causes in snails sometimes. So little study on them in done in regards to proper care and nutrition and health. Most study of snail is for invasive snails eradication, prevention and the devastation they cause to crops. ☹️  That’s what makes this forum great. Everyone loves their pets and tries things and collects tons of tidbits we can share amongst ourselves to help our little critters. 
 

Your leftover egg shells from your new chicks hatching may have found a new purpose cleaned and ground up in repashy 😁

Edited June 22, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Sal]

On 6/22/2022 at 4:19 AM, DarthMollusk said:

I'm sorry you're having issues! I'll throw out a couple things on the off chance it's helpful.

Personally, I wouldn't keep mysteries above 76. The higher the temp, the faster their metabolisms, and the shorter their lifespans (not that mystery snails are especially long lived, unfortunately). But, higher temps make their shells grow faster and thinner. Combine that with not enough calcium (both in food and in water) they will not do well. Cuttlebones (the calcium carbonate kind) and products like wonder shell are good.

Is there any potential source of copper in your tank? Found rocks? Metal? Your tap water? Copper sulfate in food?

Are there any fish in the tank who could potentially be stressing your snails? Their antennae look very tempting to some fish. 

Have you used Meds or salt? 

No copper that I am aware of, I will look more closely at all of the foods.  And at least as far as I've observed, no problems with the fish.   And no meds or salt in the tank (outside of co-op plant ferts, and prime at water changes) we do all of the meds and other stuff in the QT tank.  Temp is a bit harder, since I am also keeping fish in there.  It may be something to consider not keeping them together, you are right.  😞

On 6/22/2022 at 8:37 AM, Guppysnail said:

Your leftover egg shells from your new chicks hatching may have found a new purpose cleaned and ground up in repashy 😁

Exactly what I was thinking!!  I love using up food waste, so this is right up my alley!

My next question though is going to be, will the extra calcium hurt my pleco, because I am rather attached to him as well, and he noms the repashy hard.  🙂

Edited June 22, 2022 by Sal

[CJs Aquatics]

@SalDepending on the type of pleco extra calcium would probably be more beneficial then detrimental, especially if his diet hasn’t contained it previously, and in moderation I don’t think it would be a problem. As I stated I almost treat the crushed eggshells as a treat of sorts as I sprinkle them across the top of the tank once to two times a week…

@Guppysnailliquid calcium in repashy….. genius!

[Guppysnail]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:41 AM, Sal said:

No copper that I am aware of, I will look more closely at all of the foods.  And at least as far as I've observed, no problems with the fish.   And no meds or salt in the tank (outside of co-op plant ferts, and prime at water changes) we do all of the meds and other stuff in the QT tank.  Temp is a bit harder, since I am also keeping fish in there.  It may be something to consider not keeping them together, you are right.  😞

Exactly what I was thinking!!  I love using up food waste, so this is right up my alley!

My next question though is going to be, will the extra calcium hurt my pleco, because I am rather attached to him as well, and he noms the repashy hard.  🙂

Won’t hurt. I have breeding pairs of pleco and pleco babies everywhere all the time. They eat it up. 

[Torrey]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:58 AM, Sal said:

tossing in blanched veggies a few times a week.

I discovered after consulting with Seattle_Aqaurium and Guppysnail that my underfed snails were eating my plants. I tested water every 4 hours for ammonia & nitrites, and my beneficial bacteria colony can handle lightly blanched vegetables left in for 36 hours (the longest it has tken shrimp and snails to finish the food). If the food is all gone after 12 hours, I know I'm underfeeding. I try to have some left at the 24 hour mark, and trade out my bamboo skewers for fresh veggies every 24 hours. I put blanched carrot + whatever else isavailable (cucmber, squash, green beans, a dandelion flower was a hit, etc) on a bamboo skewer to make it easier for me to monitor. Never elevated my ammonia or nitrite levels, even as my plants were initially being decimated (took a week for the snails to decide my plants were finally healthy enough they didn't need anymore pruning, but the blanched veggies did, lol)

 

On 6/21/2022 at 12:18 PM, Sal said:

I know mystery snails don't have a super long life expectancy, I suppose it's possible I am buying "middle age" snails that are then dying a few months later?

Supposedly, nerites only live to be 2 years old. I inherited my nerites when they were 10. I was worried we had lost Watson (disappeared since my surgery) but spouse woke up to the right side of the tank being bedazzled so I'm fairly confident Watson is doing just as well as Houdini, and they had split tank duties. One day I'll break the tank down and discover where Watson has been bedazzling for the past 6 months... but that's too much work, lol. They have snail shells that I clean (soak for 48 hours) in H2O2 in their tank to nom on, as well as a bag of crushed oyster shells. I think the bag of crushed oyster shells is what convinced Watson to come to the riht side of the T4' tank, as every snail I knew about in the aquarium (and several I didn't😅) love to hang out nomming on the oyster shell. I saw some shell damage after my cyanobacterial bloom, and added the oyster shell because I already had it on hand. I looked at prices last week, and I'll probably stick with crushed oyster shell. Plants, fish and snails all say 1342/10 highly recommend, lol

On 6/22/2022 at 2:19 AM, DarthMollusk said:

Copper sulfate in food?

I lost a few dozen of my Radix auricularia L. when their favorite wafer added copper to the food and I didn't know they had changed the formula (it's a bottom feeder specific wafer, not snail specific wafer), as well as many bladder snails. Didn't seem to negatively impct the nerites at first, but Houdini (zebra nerite) now looks like an old man with a lot of white hidden by his operculum when he's out and about. So always check food sources when buying, they are under no obligation to notify us of formula changes.

 

PS: This fall, Houdini and Watson will have been with me for 2 years, making them over 12 years old!

 

[Bev C]

@Guppysnaili have a dumb question please I have very hard water  and  probably have enough calcium and magnesium  always fighting build up constantly on my tank 

my snails are happy  and fat   and i feed  vegetables 1-2 times a week I give them a small piece  of cutter bone every other week I  usually use cutter bone that is what i find  near mer in dollar stores or Wally World  in the bird section is that enough calcium or do you think i should feed  more maybe a piece every week  i want to keep them healthy .. but want to keep levels right  too 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Bev C

[Katherine]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:24 PM, Torrey said:

PS: This fall, Houdini and Watson will have been with me for 2 years, making them over 12 years old!

That is incredible! It's encouraging to hear stories like this since I've had one of mine going on 3 years.

[Guppysnail]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:58 PM, Bev C said:

@Guppysnaili have a dumb question please I have very hard water  and  probably have enough calcium and magnesium  always fighting build up constantly on my tank 

my snails are happy  and fat   and i feed  vegetables 1-2 times a week I give them a small piece  of cutter bone every other week I  usually use cutter bone that is what i find  near mer in dollar stores or Wally World  in the bird section is that enough calcium or do you think i should feed  more maybe a piece every week  i want to keep them healthy .. but want to keep levels right  too 

Yes. I used to use cuttlebone because I had it on hand for my parrots. I ran across a few pieces once that got “yucky” I’m guessing they were not prepped right maybe? I switched to wondershell or liquid in repashy and for no real reason just stopped using them. Things like cuttlebone and deteriorating fish cartilage are how they most likely get calcium in natural environments would be my guess. 

[Brandon p]

Luiquid Ca does nothing to help sndd as old. T hart have no way to up take the ca in the shells. Most of the Ca will inend up on the substrate and help plant if you have a  plants growing