High pH level

[Earl]

Hello All, 

I am new to this Forum and am interested in meeting others that enjoy this great Hobby. First off, I have been out of the aquarium hobby for almost 20 years. I have just set up a 75-gallon planted freshwater aquarium. It has been cycling for about 2 weeks. my pH wants to stay at 8.1. I introduced about 200 grams of Fluval aquatic peat pellets into my marineland 350 HOB filter, no charcoal. Also I have introduced 8 tablets of Tetra correct ph. The pH will drop to 7.5 area and then several hours later the pH will return to 8.1 area. The substrate is gravel. I currently have an older Betta male and 3 female black mollies, and a female mickey mouse platy. The betta is struggling with the high ph. I believe my pH is being trapped at this level due to the high level of Calcium Carbonate. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Below is my water chemistry:

pH :8.1

carbonate: 120 ppm

Total alkalinity: 300ppm

Free Chlorine: 0 ppm

General Hardness: 150 ppm

Nitrite: 1 ppm

Nitrate: 40 ppm

Copper: 0.5 ppm

Iron: 0 ppm

Salinity: 345 ppm

 

 

[Colu]

I wouldn't try altering your pH your more likely to get problems and stress fish out I would just get fish that do well in your local water Malawian Tanganyika cichilds livebearers 

[Biotope Biologist]

I second @Colu trying to alter pH and water parameters is not only stressful on the fish but you as well. While the betta may not prefer the water being in the upper pH range, fish gills are remarkably adaptable, to an extent, to different water parameters. Also you are correct your gh and kh are holding your water hostage at 8.1. so every water change will revert it back to that degree no matter how many chemicals you put in.

 

I might suggest almond, catappa, or oak leaves which you can find pre-cleaned at just about any fish or reptile retailer. They will slowly decay in the water releasing carbon dioxide and tannic acid. Some people also use tea for their betta. Same idea.

[Earl]

ok, Thanks for the suggestions. Very stressful.

 

[Guppysnail]

Welcome to the forum. Hang in there things get easier.  I put in a third for not altering water. And betta love leaves ❤️ And the tannins they release are beneficial 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:53 AM, Earl said:

Hello All, 

I am new to this Forum and am interested in meeting others that enjoy this great Hobby. First off, I have been out of the aquarium hobby for almost 20 years. I have just set up a 75-gallon planted freshwater aquarium. It has been cycling for about 2 weeks. my pH wants to stay at 8.1. I introduced about 200 grams of Fluval aquatic peat pellets into my marineland 350 HOB filter, no charcoal. Also I have introduced 8 tablets of Tetra correct ph. The pH will drop to 7.5 area and then several hours later the pH will return to 8.1 area. The substrate is gravel. I currently have an older Betta male and 3 female black mollies, and a female mickey mouse platy. The betta is struggling with the high ph. I believe my pH is being trapped at this level due to the high level of Calcium Carbonate. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Below is my water chemistry:

pH :8.1

carbonate: 120 ppm

Total alkalinity: 300ppm

Free Chlorine: 0 ppm

General Hardness: 150 ppm

Nitrite: 1 ppm

Nitrate: 40 ppm

Copper: 0.5 ppm

Iron: 0 ppm

Salinity: 345 ppm

 

 

You are fine, unless you are trying to breed some fish 8.5 is the max. You could run crushed coral in your filter or substrate, that will buffer it down to 7.8 or so. 

Fill that 350 with course foam and you will be A OK. 

 

[quikv6]

Your betta may be struggling from the 1ppm of nitrite. Getting that to zero would be my first priority.

[Wrencher_Scott]

@quikv6 good catch

I missed that, there should be no nitrite, a sure sign of not enough filter media or an over cleaned filter. With all that nitrate is must be cycled. 

I'm thinking better/more biofiltering and more aeration. 

[nabokovfan87]

Can you run a test on water out of the tap and then after 24 hours or aeration?

[nabokovfan87]

One method might be to dilute the tap with a % of rodi water.  Long term this should provide better stability than dosing powders and having the PH movement. If you figure out what % works, you might be able to consistently achieve a lower PH.

[Torrey]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:53 AM, Earl said:

Hello All, 

I am new to this Forum and am interested in meeting others that enjoy this great Hobby. First off, I have been out of the aquarium hobby for almost 20 years. I have just set up a 75-gallon planted freshwater aquarium. It has been cycling for about 2 weeks. my pH wants to stay at 8.1. I introduced about 200 grams of Fluval aquatic peat pellets into my marineland 350 HOB filter, no charcoal. Also I have introduced 8 tablets of Tetra correct ph. The pH will drop to 7.5 area and then several hours later the pH will return to 8.1 area. The substrate is gravel. I currently have an older Betta male and 3 female black mollies, and a female mickey mouse platy. The betta is struggling with the high ph. I believe my pH is being trapped at this level due to the high level of Calcium Carbonate. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Below is my water chemistry:

pH :8.1

carbonate: 120 ppm

Total alkalinity: 300ppm

Free Chlorine: 0 ppm

General Hardness: 150 ppm

Nitrite: 1 ppm

Nitrate: 40 ppm

Copper: 0.5 ppm

Iron: 0 ppm

Salinity: 345 ppm

 

 

If your nitrite is 1 ppm, that's the cause of your betta struggling.

As for hard water and high pH, and whether or not to change anything....

What do you want out of the hobby?

(Not being a smart alec, honest question to provide better information for you)

If you are a water nerd, and love doing chemistry constantly, along with all the math to maintain parameters, then changing water parameters is doable. It's easier to either run a phytoremediation tank where plants suck up the extra calcium (hornwort is fabulous for this) or keep a 55 gallon trashcan of treated water available for water changes.

Other options are RODI, but with the water shortage I honestly can't get onboard with RODI. 

ZeroWater doesn't have the same wastewater problem, each filter costs $10, and if you enroll in the ZeroWatre buyback program, you get $10 back for every 2 filters you send them to recycle.

You would then mix water (part tap plus part ZeroWater, or part RODI, or phytoremediation water) and test to make sure what you are putting in your tank has proper TDS, zero ammonia/ nitrites/ chlorine and chloramine, and the GH and KH (KH typically needs to be ~180 ppm to maintain stable pH) and not have pH swings which stress, and eventually can kill fish. I have been working with this and I can say that changing one parameter (I was trying to lower my TDS) can have a lot of unintended consequences (I am apparently now working on a masters degree in water chemistry, and keep having to ask for help identifying what I screwed up for my plants this week).

No matter what, I will keep doing the water chemistry approach for my shrimp. Luckily, it's a small enough tank it won't break me.

The rest of my tanks?

I am slowly re-acclimating them to my liquid rock that pours out of my faucet at 8.2 pH.

My only problem?

Between October and now, my water authority did something to the treatment process, because last October the KH out of the tap was 180 ppm to 300 ppm.

Now, my GH is so far off the charts (calcium carbonate) I can't measure it (hence why I started mixing with ZeroWater) but at least my KH was high enough to keep my pH stable so my fish didn't get stressed (most fish are actually pretty forgiving of pH, as long as it is stable. But they are not forgiving of nitrite or ammonia at higher pH, so it's important we test regularly for both and promptly do water changes and use Prime to protect their gills if we ever see either).

TL/DR: High pH is only an issue with some shrimp and a few types of fish. Snails, Mollies and platies actually crave your harder water.

The betta will do fine in hard water, as long as:

1. no nitrites or ammonia

2. the air just above the water stays warm (like 85 F warm) and humid (like 90% humidity or more) to protect the labyrinth organ

3. the betta is in his happy place temp wise (most prefer 82 F, some like it warmer, and a few can tolerate cooler)

 

Salt, and Indian Almond Leaves help prevent illness in bettas, and the platies and mollies tend to appreciate a little salt, too.

[Earl]

Thank you so much for the nice detailed approach of water chemistry. When I kept fish a long time ago in a 55-gal aquarium, I filled the aquarium with tap water, treated for Chlorine and let it go. Not caring much about the species-specific needs. This time around I am taking a more scientific approach, but do not want to spend my retirement years babysitting water chemistry every waking moment.