Best substrate too build on

[sweetpoison]

I hope my topic makes sense.  I need a substrate so I can shape my hill but it really isn’t going to show later on.

Does this make sense at all?  I have a 20 gallon long. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:42 PM, sweetpoison said:

I hope my topic makes sense.  I need a substrate so I can shape my hill but it really isn’t going to show later on.

Does this make sense at all?  I have a 20 gallon long. 

You want something that will allow you to build some verticalitity front to back, but you want something that won't be too stiff?

What is your stocking like, undetermined or do you have specific care needs?

I would think if you want something "more natural" in terms of visuals, the seachem substrates are pretty good. They have fine or larger particle sizes in a variety of colors. I don't think something like the caribsea natural sands works for what you're asking.

The chunky colorful gravel and small pebbles might not be the best choice either because they will tend to be too stiff and not so subtle over time.

Sometimes if you have a specific feature you're trying to add into the tank you can add a retaining wall under the substrate as well to try to keep it into position.

[Streetwise]

I have not done this, but some aquarists use substrate in mesh bags to create a sloped environment.

In previous recycling threads, I wondered about ACO plant bags. I tested them under a tap, and the water flow is continuous.

[lefty o]

as above, plain old aquarium gravel in mesh bags will hold the general shape, then can be covered with about any substrate you choose.

[Corbidorbidoodle]

MD Fishtanks does that with media bags filled with regular ol' inert driveway gravel. Looks like it works a treat for him.

But he's using some kind of black magic as well...

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:22 PM, Streetwise said:

In previous recycling threads, I wondered about ACO plant bags. I tested them under a tap, and the water flow is continuous

Yep they would work. Might deteriorate over time though compared to a 100% nylon bag

[sweetpoison]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:08 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You want something that will allow you to build some verticalitity front to back, but you want something that won't be too stiff?

What is your stocking like, undetermined or do you have specific care needs?

I would think if you want something "more natural" in terms of visuals, the seachem substrates are pretty good. They have fine or larger particle sizes in a variety of colors. I don't think something like the caribsea natural sands works for what you're asking.

The chunky colorful gravel and small pebbles might not be the best choice either because they will tend to be too stiff and not so subtle over time.

Sometimes if you have a specific feature you're trying to add into the tank you can add a retaining wall under the substrate as well to try to keep it into position.

My stocking will be very light for a while. I’m looking at Peapuffers and Rummynose.

On 4/13/2022 at 5:22 PM, Streetwise said:

I have not done this, but some aquarists use substrate in mesh bags to create a sloped environment.

In previous recycling threads, I wondered about ACO plant bags. I tested them under a tap, and the water flow is continuous.

Yes! That’s what I want a sloped environment  I have been doing a lot investigating  you’re right people put substrate in plant bags and tested  them under top and the water flows right through it!!  I forgotten thank you so much!!

Im still not sure what substrate to use ~ can I just use plain aquarium gravel?

[sweetpoison]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:31 PM, lefty o said:

as above, plain old aquarium gravel in mesh bags will hold the general shape, then can be covered with about any substrate you choose.

PERFECT!!  Thank you!

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/13/2022 at 6:51 PM, sweetpoison said:

 

Im still not sure what substrate to use ~ can I just use plain aquarium gravel?

Lava rock is probably the best bet. Depending on how high of a slope you want.

Lizzie just dropped a video today actually with a really big slope on a tank. Used rocks so you can see the separation and then the substrate was sloped as well. Might be worth checking out to get some inspiration.

@Lizzie Block

[BF McUmber]

On 4/13/2022 at 9:51 PM, sweetpoison said:

Im still not sure what substrate to use ~ can I just use plain aquarium gravel?

I built a ~4" retaining wall out of rocks in my aquarium, however I did not take it entirely to the glass walls. I just have 2-4 mm gravel in my aquarium and it holds the slope near the wall better than expected. This may all go out the window though if you wanted to heavily gravel vac, have a strong waver maker, or have digging fish though. As my gravel is near the walls it does not get disturbed too much.   

 

I don't know why the picture gets the Australia treatment when I try to upload it.  

Edited April 14, 2022 by BF McUmber

[sweetpoison]

It is upside down isn’t it! Australian treatment😂😂 Okay bear with me. What stops that wall from just collapsing? That’s very clever!

[BF McUmber]

If you are talking about the rocks that make up my retaining wall that are not shown in the picture. I used super glue/silicone/and epoxy to bind them together and make a vertical surface. I also put a cave in it so I needed a way to not have them fall in two directions. 

If we are still talking about gravel:
Even under water, granular material will follow a rough "angle of repose". Being under water mainly just makes it easier to disturb. So as long as you don't have a outside force like a strong current to flatten it it should stay stable. Its only when you have a force or move the gravel that is holding it up that you will have issues. 

[sweetpoison]

You are so wise thank you so much!  One last thing then I won’t bug you anymore. Today at least🙄😂

 

what is the safest glue to use for underwater?

[isaly]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:45 PM, sweetpoison said:

what is the safest glue to use for underwater?

I used gel super glue to glue java ferns to rocks. I don't know if it's the safest but it's safe.

[sweetpoison]

Thank you! I have that🙂

[Cbass]

I used super glue to mount my weeping moss. works fine and it's supposed to be safe. You can also buy aquarium glue, which starts to harden when placed in water (super glue takes a little longer). Whatever you get, just make sure it's the gel version and not the normal thin liquid. 

[Torrey]

On 4/13/2022 at 6:22 PM, Streetwise said:

I have not done this, but some aquarists use substrate in mesh bags to create a sloped environment.

In previous recycling threads, I wondered about ACO plant bags. I tested them under a tap, and the water flow is continuous.

Thank you @Streetwise! Still figuring out how to make the slope more stable in the 4' build, after I discovered trying to catch fish + relandscaping thanks to MTS = flat substrate and sad plants in my Walstad....

[Torrey]

On 4/14/2022 at 10:27 AM, sweetpoison said:

Thank you! I have that🙂

Cyanoacrylate cures (chemical reaction) in the presence of H2O, whether it's humidity in the air or water misted onto the surface. With really high humidity (like dunking it in the aquarium) it can cure so fast it turns white. So use the smallest amount needed to secure rock, wood, or plants. In the past I have used barriers (watch SerpaDesign or MD Fishtanks) of hardscape to help reinforce the slope. I did my first attempt without significant barriers last year... and it did not end well once I had to catch fish (see my Walstad Inspired Journal).

At the high end of the aquascaping experience, Jurijs has great tutorials. My personal favorite for teaching how to scape, and how to effectively use substrate, requires a great sense of humor to keep me entertained and to help people I am introducing to aquascaping concepts learn by having fun.

Josh sim has a great video for his workshop with Green Aqua:

 

[sweetpoison]

Thank you for all that information truly appreciated!  I have been watching landscapes being created on YouTube in the aquarium~ is so fascinating!!

[Intuos]

I always use mesh bags to create a base layer to build on filled anywhere from half to three quarters full. 

Then fill in the gaps with the final substrate to prevent trapping any air. I find this results in a really stable platform to then build my scapes on. 

 

[Torrey]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:52 PM, sweetpoison said:

Thank you for all that information truly appreciated!  I have been watching landscapes being created on YouTube in the aquarium~ is so fascinating!!

You are welcome! My niece spent time in Malaysia, and Josh became a household name, lol