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Eight cardinal tetras dead within 48 hours


Apulo
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Last week I was at my LFS looking for neon or cardinal tetras and they let me know they had just gotten a delivery of cardinals.

I picked up eight and headed home to get them acclimated and in my tank (14 gallon cube) to join the three otos and two panda cories that had been happily living in there for over a week.

The tank was fully cycled with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 20ppm nitrate for the plants.

After adding in the cardinals, two were dead within hours, two more were dead by morning, and the other four were dead within the next few days.

I tested the water immediately and still, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20ppm nitrate. The cories and otos were still just fine and doing their usual thing.

I of course did a 30% water change to be sure and everything seems to be happy still.

I'm just afraid now to get any more neons or cardinals.

Does anyone have any advice? Should I try to get some neons again?

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I did a 30 minute in-bag temperature acclimation then poured them into a net to not mix in the LFS water.

My Kh is about 50-ish PPM and Gh is about 150-ish PPM, pH is around 7.4 or so

I was concerned that my water may be too hard for the little fellas, after the mass death that is.

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On 3/10/2022 at 11:46 AM, Apulo said:

they let me know they had just gotten a delivery of cardinals.

One thing to consider is that these fish had just endured a trip of who knows how long to get to the LFS, where they experienced more stress of going into a strange new tank with strange new water. Then they were exposed to another shorter transport to your house, and another transition to another strange new tank with strange new water. It just may have been too much stress back to back.

I recently picked up harlequin resboras that my LFS had finally gotten in. They were from a known local breeder, so the LFS just had a three day quarantine. I paid for ten, they gave me twelve, I had nine survive.

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On 3/10/2022 at 10:11 AM, Apulo said:

I did a 30 minute in-bag temperature acclimation then poured them into a net to not mix in the LFS water.

My Kh is about 50-ish PPM and Gh is about 150-ish PPM, pH is around 7.4 or so

I was concerned that my water may be too hard for the little fellas, after the mass death that is.

No, those water parameters are fine. Stress or they had a bacterial infection from shipping.

Edited by Mmiller2001
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Be careful with the quarantine tank. I have some wild caught least killifish in quarantine that I was going to put in my shrimp tank, but I found some unexpected fry in the shrimp tank, so I no longer have a quarantine tank. I think I saw someone post that they had to buy a new tank every time they needed a quarantine tank.

 

 

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On 3/10/2022 at 2:59 PM, Widgets said:

I found some unexpected fry in the shrimp tank, so I no longer have a quarantine tank. I think I saw someone post that they had to buy a new tank every time they needed a quarantine tank.

 

 

This happens to me All. The. Time because I keep primarily livebearers and they go crazy and start popping out fry as soon as they get in the QT tank. At least it slows me down; I can't buy new fish until the fry from the previous batch grows out enough to go in with the parents 😊

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Me too with the livebearers. I am trying to move to the Rachel O'Leary method of using a plastic bin for QT so that I am less tempted to keep it running after it's needed for QT, because I have two tanks that are now "permanent" that started as QT.

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On 3/10/2022 at 3:18 PM, PineSong said:

Me too with the livebearers. I am trying to move to the Rachel O'Leary method of using a plastic bin for QT so that I am less tempted to keep it running after it's needed for QT, because I have two tanks that are now "permanent" that started as QT.

I thought that was how we were supposed to get new tanks going?😏

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Cardinals can be touchy, especially small ones. I don't buy them from a LFS unless they have had them for at least a week, and preferably even longer. A lot of times,, especially if wild caught they may not take flake or pellet foods right away. When I get them, I but at least six, take them home, float bag to temp acclimate, dump in net, plop them in tank. Lights off, and always use Ich-X. The next day I will give a small amount of live BBS, as well as a bit of flake or pellet foods. The hope is to get them to realize while eating the BBS that the dry stuff is food as well. 

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On 3/10/2022 at 4:35 PM, clovenpine said:

This happens to me All. The. Time because I keep primarily livebearers and they go crazy and start popping out fry as soon as they get in the QT tank. At least it slows me down; I can't buy new fish until the fry from the previous batch grows out enough to go in with the parents 😊

Glad I’m not the only one with this experience. Had two mollies with bacterial infection, moved them in saltwater QT, bam instantly had babies. Three weeks later moved one into a separate tank to keep her away from Dad’s relentless love and bam she had 50 babies. 😆

You may find that slowly adding in water from home tank into LFS bag helps reduce the stress a bit. This allows them to slowly adjust to the difference in ph. 

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If you live nearby, go back to the LFS and check to see if the cardinals are still for sale, and what the return policy is.

If the store is reputable, they may have a long return period, and if the fish are not available, it could mean that they are aware of the problem.  I've had this experience with other fish.  In my case they credited the entire purchase, not just the dead fish.

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On 3/10/2022 at 4:18 PM, PineSong said:

Me too with the livebearers. I am trying to move to the Rachel O'Leary method of using a plastic bin for QT so that I am less tempted to keep it running after it's needed for QT, because I have two tanks that are now "permanent" that started as QT.

Ha same here!  Figured I'd make my 10 gallon into my fry grow out and QT tank.  Corys came out of QT and a few days later, we have cory fry.  Moved pregnant koi swordtail in, got a gagillion swordtail fry (or so) and discovered that they take FOREVER to grow out.  Had a random guppy in there for a while and had guppy fry born at same time as the swordtail fry.  Moved out the males after they colored up and the female (who's as old as the swordtail fry that are still too small for the angelfish in the big community tank) popped out babies already.  Gave up with waiting to not have fry, bought a QT tote instead.  Wonder what that will turn into!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/31/2022 at 12:28 AM, Boaz Xavier said:

I don't think it depends on reputation of the store to give good return policy. You can always read their  Petsmart Return Policy and make your choice accordingly. Buying without knowing their policies , later you may face any kind of issue. In our area most of the store have worst return policy.

Yes, It is important to know what a LFS's return policy is. Over time I have encountered sellers with return policies ranging from one to fourteen days.  Reputation enters the picture beginning with how flexible they are. ie: will they accept the fish on day 15?  In the case of multiple returns, will they continue selling that fish or quarantine the tank?... 

In event that I referred to, I purchased 10 fish, 4 of the fish died within a week. The store refunded 10 fish without my asking, and quarantined the tank.  Refunding the entire purchase was not part of the return policy, but was part of their reputation for customer satisfaction.

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On 3/11/2022 at 5:04 AM, Apulo said:

Yeah, my plan is to drip acclimate them from now on. I'm just going to have to make sure they stay out of reach of the kitties.

Cardinals and Neons are very prone to bacteria infections. My bet is like others said it's lots of stress from shipping meaning bacteria, ammonia, and of course the regular stress we think of. Those little guys need perfectly clean water, the pH and GH are not so important but bacteria free water is. They come from very clean water.

There is no need to drip acclimate IMO.  

I bet Neons are the most killed fish in the hobby. 

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