Apistogramma Journal

[Fish Folk]

Well, I’m going to begin a new journal on breeding Apistogramma Cacatouides. My son had a lovely pair a few years ago that spawned a couple times without yielding any fry. They had internal parasites we weren’t able to treat, so sadly, they didn’t last terribly long.

Now, I’ve set this same tank up with less greens but more botanicals. It’s ugly! Super-established. Got some Glowlight Pygmy Barbs in there temporarily as dithers. Probably a bad choice for successfully raising Apisto fry.

Here’s a quick talk-through…

If you’ve had success breeding Apistos, I’d welcome your input on this journal. I’m learning, and you can help!

[Fish Folk]

Tannins starting to look good!

[Johannes]

I have bred cacatoides by accident one time parents raised the fry but started eating them when the pair was ready to spawn again but sadly these had the same problem as your sons pair. What i would do is let the parents raise them to free swimming and then pull them. I kept these with kerri tetras and big guppys and the female defended them aggresively but did not injure any other fish. I also saw that the male did not take care of the fry but did not do anything to them. This pair spawned a week after putting them into a 20 long and just sexing them at the shop where they where housed with other conspecifics. This is just my experience and take everything with agrain of salt.

[Fish Folk]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:49 AM, Johannes said:

I have bred cacatoides by accident one time parents raised the fry but started eating them when the pair was ready to spawn again but sadly these had the same problem as your sons pair. What i would do is let the parents raise them to free swimming and then pull them. I kept these with kerri tetras and big guppys and the female defended them aggresively but did not injure any other fish. I also saw that the male did not take care of the fry but did not do anything to them. This pair spawned a week after putting them into a 20 long and just sexing them at the shop where they where housed with other conspecifics. This is just my experience and take everything with agrain of salt.

Thanks for sharing! Sorry they ate their young.

[Fish Folk]

Here we go now! Tannins really settling in.

Apistos supposed to arrive today:

I’ve got two caves set up. One is a coconut hut…

The other is an old resin hut that’s been in here for years…

 

 

[Fish Folk]

Yay! Apistos arrived. Excellent shipping / boxing. Heat pack nice and warm. Lively fish.

Here’s a quick just-un-boxed video, on deck for tank…

And here’s a couple shots in the tank…

Male:

Female:

[anewbie]

You have domestic cockatoo so tannis isn't necessary - also my experience is that domestic cockatoo don't last that long - so don't be shocked if they die in a year. My presumption is that it is due to heavy inbreeding. I didn't see the size of the tank; the only real issue with them is that sometime the male can be quite aggressive when the female doesn't want to breed. I found this more true with other species of apistogramma than cockatoo but in a small tank it can still be an issue. This is a generic characteristic of harem breeders - chase the female out of the male territory if she doesnt' want to breed. Conversely once she has laid eggs she can be very aggressive towards the male. This is not so true with bounding pairs (harem breeders don't bound) in which case both sexes are inclined to raise the frys (though there are a few harem breeders where the male will care for the frys); also tidbit there are also apistogramma that are mouth brooders.

[Fish Folk]

Just enjoyed the new Apistos accept some Spirulina Brine Shrimp. Male and one female seem pretty paired off, hanging around the Coconut hut.

[Fish Folk]

Shot a little intro / talk-through video of the Apisto tank. Got some footage of each of the three.

 

[Fish Folk]

Got some breeding indicators going on with my Cacatouides pair. Female doing the strange “look at me… I’m feeling fun… come to this cave thingy over here…” for the male.

 

[Fish Folk]

Moved out the Pygmy Barbs this morning…

Just bought 12x Pencilfish (supposedly coral red, but maybe not…)

Excellent Apisto dithers. 

[Fish Folk]

Man, Pencilfish and Apistos just jive together!

[anewbie]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:09 PM, Fish Folk said:

Moved out the Pygmy Barbs this morning…

Just bought 12x Pencilfish (supposedly coral red, but maybe not…)

Excellent Apisto dithers. 

Don't think they are red coral. Did they cost $20 a fish? Even if they did they don't look like red coral.

[Fish Folk]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:14 PM, anewbie said:

Don't think they are red coral. Did they cost $20 a fish? Even if they did they don't look like red coral.

Yeah… I told the LFS owner the same thing. Any suggestions of other possible ID? 

[Patrick_G]

Hmm... The Coral reds I've seen are very bright red, like a male Cherry barb. Maybe these just haven't colored up. 

[Fish Folk]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:42 PM, Patrick_G said:

Hmm... The Coral reds I've seen are very bright red, like a male Cherry barb. Maybe these just haven't colored up. 

I think @anewbie is correct, these appear to be a basic / generic Nanostomus species. They’re larger and “hardier” than coral reds. Plus, they were only about $3 / each 😅

Edited March 10, 2022 by Fish Folk

[Patrick_G]

Maybe just as well. The manager at the Wet Spot told me they have problems with the Coral red males fighting to the death. 

[anewbie]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:35 PM, Patrick_G said:

Maybe just as well. The manager at the Wet Spot told me they have problems with the Coral red males fighting to the death. 

It is common for them to fight (not sure about death); seriouslyfish talks about them. I suspect like many other fishes it depends on the size of the tank and number of competitors; after all put a female angle in a tank with a pair and the two females will fight to the death but put 20 angels in the tank and death is less likely (though they might not be so pretty after a few months).

 

Likewise it is not infrequent that male and female apisto will kill each other in a 10 gallon aquarium (species makes a difference) but a well scaped 20 long or 29 they can survive. This is mostly with harem breeders where the male will drive a female not interested in breeding out of his territory and a female will attack a male if she has frys. That is why scaping and tank size are very important when breeding many species of apisto. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by anewbie

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Excited to see how these apistogramma look like when they’re breeding because they’re already gorgeous!

[Nate s]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:16 PM, anewbie said:

It is common for them to fight (not sure about death); seriouslyfish talks about them. I suspect like many other fishes it depends on the size of the tank and number of competitors; after all put a female angle in a tank with a pair and the two females will fight to the death but put 20 angels in the tank and death is less likely (though they might not be so pretty after a few months).

 

Likewise it is not infrequent that male and female apisto will kill each other in a 10 gallon aquarium (species makes a difference) but a well scaped 20 long or 29 they can survive. This is mostly with harem breeders where the male will drive a female not interested in breeding out of his territory and a female will attack a male if she has frys. That is why scaping and tank size are very important when breeding many species of apisto. 

I must be lucky then. I have one of my younger pairs in a 10g and they have breed twice for me. The first time they had about a dozen fry but I didn’t pull them quick enough and after the female laid eggs again 3 weeks later I was only able to save one. She also for some reason ate those eggs or they were not fertile. Fast forward 1 month and she has laid again. Hoping to get more saved this time. Just want to keep my apistos going. I have 3 different generations (from two different pairs) mixed and matched into new pairs in 6 of my tanks. Love dwarf cichlids 

[anewbie]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:50 PM, Nate s said:

I must be lucky then. I have one of my younger pairs in a 10g and they have breed twice for me. The first time they had about a dozen fry but I didn’t pull them quick enough and after the female laid eggs again 3 weeks later I was only able to save one. She also for some reason ate those eggs or they were not fertile. Fast forward 1 month and she has laid again. Hoping to get more saved this time. Just want to keep my apistos going. I have 3 different generations (from two different pairs) mixed and matched into new pairs in 6 of my tanks. Love dwarf cichlids 

I'm confused - we were talking about red coral fighting - they are a pencil fish not a species of apisto...

[Fish Folk]

GAME ON! We have Apistogramma Cacatouides fry!

(Pardon my excitement in this first video)
 

Here is a me-not-talking closeup fry video… so tiny… so precious!

Full disclosure: some of you will hate me… I pulled the fry to a breeder net…

They would probably have died quickly in this context otherwise.

 

[anewbie]

Well that didn't take long; why do you think they would have died if you left them with the parents ?

[Fish Folk]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:06 AM, anewbie said:

Well that didn't take long; why do you think they would have died if you left them with the parents ?

There’s a trio in here. The male had already crept on over and gobbled one. I’m not sure I’ve adequately caught them either. Risk both ways, but I want to go for BAP. I need to get 10x to survive for 30-days. I trust nurture over nature this time.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Fish Folk

[anewbie]

On 3/14/2022 at 5:54 AM, Fish Folk said:

There’s a trio in here. The male had already crept on over and gobbled one. I’m not sure I’ve adequately caught them either. Risk both ways, but I want to go for BAP. I need to get 10x to survive for 30-days. I trust nurture over nature this time.

I guess mommy isn't doing her job. There is certain advantages to having the parents raise the frys (if you have good parents); but if daddy is eating them then mommy is being very naughty.

 

What is BAP ?

Edited March 14, 2022 by anewbie