Brine Shrimp FAIL. What am I doing wrong?

[Sandra the fish rookie]

Hi all~

I have had 3 failed attempts at making baby brine using the Ziss brine shrimp thing. My initial issues were as follows:

I could NOT find a heater to fit it and the one that I could find was preset and not warm enough. I have an old heater and that seems to be working for now. Thought that would help. But nope (if someone knows of a brand that is a perfect fit. Please let me know)

I researched a suitable temp and ranges are 79-82. I set it at 81. Still nope.

Using aquarium salt per the specified guidelines on the ACO site, and still no hatching

using a ACO air stone, and its right to the bottom and moving them really well... still no hatch. 

I am keeping my eggs in the fridge sealed don't think that is the issue.

What am I missing? My water is hard, PH 7.3/7.4 out of the tap. not sure if that has anything to do with it?

Any advice would be VERY appreciated. 

 

[Flumpweesel]

All I can do is say what I do. I hatch at room temp the hatcher is in my kitchen which is pretty cold at night.

I use about a tablespoon of salt to 500ml of water with a big pinch of bicarbonate of soda. Bubble slowly no stone just the air through the straw at a slow blub rate.

Takes about 36-48 hrs to get a good hatch. Eggs stored in fridge like yours.

Maybe less air and wait longer every house has a different recipe for success with shrimp.

[Sandra the fish rookie]

I keep my house at 68-70 degrees'. thought it was too cold.

I fill the Ziss with 2 liters of salt water. I put 2 tablespoons of salt. maybe I am not using enough salt? or the wrong type of salt?

@FlumpweeselDo you use Aquarium Salt? 

[Fonske]

On 2/27/2022 at 10:07 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

I have had 3 failed attempts at making baby brine using the Ziss brine shrimp thing

1) Are you having this issue specifically with Ziss hatchery? Or this is your first attempt at live BBSs?

2) Do you use any light during the hatching? In my (DIY, not Ziss) hatchery hatching rate dropped a lot without light source.

3) You didn't mention what kind of BS eggs do you use, are they from Aquarium Coop? If not, could they by chance be decapsulated BBS eggs? 

I would do a test hatch of a tiny amount of the eggs in a flat dish/container. No air, no dechlorinator,  12g salt per 500ml  water, a pinch of baking soda,  24-48 hours  at 70-80F. 

[Struggle]

I use the Ziss hatcher per the below.

• 80ish degree water from the tap with chlorine.  
• 2 tbsp of marine salt.
• 1 ounce of eggs.
• 24ish hours of soak time.
• I let the salt dissolve while my bs eggs coming up to room temperature. 
• Once the eggs are close to room temperature I put in about 1 ounce.

I do not use a air stone, only the hard tubing cut at an angle to the bottom of the hatcher.

I’ve tried heaters but I think they may be cooking them due to the small size of the container and do not use them anymore. I clean the hatcher after every use and before resetting. It may take you a bit to get it down but once you do it’ll run like clockwork.
 

I use the below measuring spoons to keep it simple by only having to do one scoop of each.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RBEJT8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 
 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G5J5Y74/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

[Maggie]

Ditto what @Fonskesaid. I had trouble with hatching brine shrimp until I brought the pH up with just a little pinch of baking soda. They apparently like a higher pH. I use just a hatching dish in a warm spot with a light - no air or heat, but the yield is not nearly as good as a ziss (works OK for one aquarium, though). Adding baking helped tremendously. 

[Flumpweesel]

On 2/27/2022 at 3:41 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

FlumpweeselDo you use Aquarium Salt? 

No I use table salt, I'm in the UK so there is no iodine our table salt 

[Sandra the fish rookie]

@Fonske Yes, I am using the Ziss Hatchery. Yes, it my first time every trying to hatch my own baby brine. 

Light? No.. only when I try to collect them. Guess I need to keep a light on them all the time?. Eggs are from ACO that I keep in the fridge.

@Struggle You use Marine salt. Is that different than aquarium salt? I purchased the salt from ACO as well. You mentioned "soak time" what do you mean? you soak them with no air?

Maybe I will go back to the little heater (that I thought was not warm enough, it kept the water at 76-78 maybe it was enough and 81 is too hot. I keep my house cool so I was worried it would be too cold..

1 have the ACO spoon and use 1 teaspoon of eggs for 2 liters of water, and 2 tablespoons of salt.  

So, this time around, I will use a smaller heater, no air stone, keep the light on the hatcher all the time

[Fonske]

On 2/28/2022 at 12:38 AM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

Light? No.. only when I try to collect them. Guess I need to keep a light on them all the time?

I'd try with light on the them all the time. 

On 2/28/2022 at 12:38 AM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

t kept the water at 76-78 maybe it was enough and 81 is too hot.

My hatchery runs at ~86F during summer months. The only effect is that BBS hatch much faster. 

On 2/28/2022 at 12:38 AM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

So, this time around, I will use a smaller heater, no air stone, keep the light on the hatcher all the time

Air is likely the main issue as you seems to be doing everything else right. I don't use Ziss, but I know that the way the air is supplied (even using same airpump), can affect hatching a lot. Ditch the airstone, play with the air flow a bit if you can, keep the light on and it should work. 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

If you are getting no hatching at all, like none, I would suspect that the eggs are bad. Even if the perameters are a bit off some will hatch.

White light around the 4 hour mark can increase hatch rates but it isn't at all necessary for good hatch rates.

https://academic.oup.com/jcb/article/36/4/515/2735716?login=false

In my experience baby brine are tough and flexible with their perameters but they do need a little more in the water than just salt. I didn't get good hatch rates using my softened water but I do get good hatches using either my hard water + plain salt, or my softened water with either instant ocean or plain salt plus a pinch of baking soda.

[Brandon p]

Do you have a valve to control the air flow. The water just needs to gently move the eggs an after they hatch to much flow can kill them. I use the ziss  and a homemade one with a ziss air stone. I have a week so no Cl. I do add a pinch of backing soda. If I were you would start everything over. And do one thing at a time. Start with just the salt, water and eggs and let them go for closer to 36 hours. 24 works for some people but my best hatch is closer to 36. Next time if that doesn’t work try buying a gallon of water(not distilled) sting or RO water. Then work your way up to different things. If you messaged me I’ll gladly record ho I do it. I had a few issues when I started as well. Can I ask which brand you are using to hatch. Can you post a pic

[Sandra the fish rookie]

Thanks Guys 🙂

Here is what I did (take 4)

1) used the aquarium salt (my husband used all the regular salt to brine chicken UGH) so I used what I had till I get to the store

2) back to the little heater, that keeps it at 76-78

3) have the light ON 

4) added baking soda (pinch)

5) removed the air stone and just have the tube with very light bubbling

NOW... when do I expect to see something happen? And what will they look like? 

[Sandra the fish rookie]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:34 PM, Brandon p said:

well. Can I ask which brand you are using to hatch. Can you post a pic

The eggs are Aquarium Co-op, the Salt is Fritz A+ Aquarium Salt. I received my BBS on 10 FEB 2022. See BBS Hatchery below 🙂 

[Flumpweesel]

Right waiting time for me it's always 36 to 48 hours , so I would say wait at least 36 the best way to explain how the hatch looks is that the water looks fuller and more orange you'll know when you see it.

[TheDukeAnumber1]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:43 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

NOW... when do I expect to see something happen? And what will they look like? 

Expect to see a lot of them hatched at 24 hours, and nearly all of them hatched at 36-48 hours. The eggs are brown but the shrimp are a lighter orange so the color of the turbid water will shift. IMO when you check on it just pause the air and look for little nauplii bopping around, they have a distince motion you'll see it.

[Streetwise]

I have spare Fluval Nano lights. Should I use one for my hatchery? I have not tried brine shrimp in quite a while, mostly because I am not breeding, except for shrimp, and I have only so many gallons of tanks to feed.

[Brandon p]

Everyone has a way that works best. I don’t use the heater. Do give up it may take a bit to get it right. When it happens I think you will be able to with the Qualityof your fish.

[Flumpweesel]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:03 PM, Streetwise said:

I have spare Fluval Nano lights. Should I use one for my hatchery? I have not tried brine shrimp in quite a while, mostly because I am not breeding, except for shrimp, and I have only so many gallons of tanks to feed.

I wouldn't hatch in the dark but I think room lighting is adequate. I think some really old instructions use light bulbs as a heat source (like in old incubaters) but that won't work with modern lights. I just leave mine in the kitchen no heat no extra light. 

[Brandon p]

Ok,this is just well water. I use the scoop that comes with the bbs and for a full batch like this I use 2 scoops of salt and two bbs( pics below). This shows the air stone(ziss) I use. I use a solid piece of tubing which I heated and bent at about 90 degrees and then rubber air tubbing  to attach the stone. I this pic it’s hard to see but there is still some salt that is not disovled. It will the bubbles are just enough to to turn over the eggs.a. Second pic of the bend in the solid tubing. And you can see a Valveon the bottom center to control the air.  this is just the in disobedience salt. 
 

I know you have gotten lots of advice today but I would change just one thing at a time. I have lots of tanks a will use all this plus and extra liter that I make. I do not add any extra light except to harvest. I would do two things first. Let them go 36 hours and remove the heater. If that doesn’t work I would try different water with the heater. If still no luck use different water and more salt and so on. But only change one thing at a time. Go back to basics.

[sumplkrum]

On 2/27/2022 at 1:52 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

The eggs are Aquarium Co-op, the Salt is Fritz A+ Aquarium Salt. I received my BBS on 10 FEB 2022. See BBS Hatchery below 🙂

I had trouble when using the Fritz salt and Candy suggested switching to Marine salt, which has more minerals. It'll probably also up the ph for you.

I'm just using what I have at my local store, which is Fluval SEA marine salt.

[Sandra the fish rookie]

UPDATE!! SUCCESS!!!!!!!!! YAY: I used a bit of everyone's advise.. Here is what worked for me

1) added baking soda

2) still used a heater, but it was a pre set at 78 degrees'

3) Kept a light on

4) took off the stone, cut the tub at an angle, and adjusted the speed of the bubbles so they were still moving but way less and more gentle. 

NOW............. even a teaspoon gave me a TON of BBS! I put them in a jar, with salt water in the fridge. However, my murder bean..(AKA Gazoo) prefers he larger ones I get from the LFS. Which I have a little 2.5 gallon I keep them in and hey last at least 2 weeks or more, and I feed them as well (seriously.. LOL). All I keep in there is an air stone. I think some people call them "sea monkeys" but Gazoo calls them dinner and he LOVES THEM.. chases them everywhere.. 

If I add some BBS in there will they get any larger?