Enough Tanks? Sound Plan?

[Cinnebuns]

So I've started my guppy breeding adventure. Practicing on $2 guppies before I get some with good genes. I have a 29 gallon main tank that is currently housing 6 glo tetras and 2 guppies. Originally was going to be 2 females but long story short, it isn't. I've decided to try to keep this as small an operation as guppy breeding can be and try to only have 1 female pregnant at a time. To do this I plan to house the breeding male, along with 4 companion males, in the 29. I will house the 1 lone female along with neon tetras in a 10 gallon. "Conjugal" visits from the breeding male will happen there. 

 

In addition to these 2 tanks, I currently have a 10 and 5 gallon tanks. My original thought was to divide the 10 gallon so I in effect have 3 5 gallon tanks to house fry. Given I will only be having 1 breeding female at a time, this seemed like a good situation as I likely won't have more than 3 batches at a time. While looking for dividers, I have not become confident any will work. Most have holes big enough for fry to swim through, and those that don't have bad reviews with other concerns.

 

Do you think I will need 3 divided areas for fry?  Any divider you know of that might work?  Additionally, does my plan to limit my breeding have any holes in it?  

[Fish Folk]

Best wishes to you! You can explore different approaches to dividers. I like using thick pieces of aquarium sponge.

In a divided 33 gal. long, they look like this…

[WhitecloudDynasty]

With 2 female you'll get 2 drop every 30ish day. They might have to be 3-4month before you can introduce back into the main aquarium. So that's 6 matches, depending on how growth rate and how big the drop are you may be able to put them together. 

You might want to sex them out also, that will even take up more room.

[Cinnebuns]

@WhitecloudDynasty I will only have 1 female. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 12/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@WhitecloudDynasty I will only have 1 female. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 

She may get too much attention from the males if it's only her

[Cinnebuns]

@WhitecloudDynasty most of the time she won't be with them but in a seperate tank. Only occasionally will 1 male be with her. Likely only a few days to a week every 3 months I will put a male in with her. Otherwise they are seperate. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Cinnebuns

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 12/27/2021 at 3:21 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@WhitecloudDynasty most of the time she won't be with them but in a seperate tank. Only occasionally will 1 male be with her. Likely only a few days to a week every 3 months I will put a male in with her. Otherwise they are seperate. 

Sound like a plan 

[Cinnebuns]

@WhitecloudDynasty ok good. I didn't want some unforseen issue to come up. Inevitably a couple things might because you can't plan for EVERYTHING but minimizing is ideal. Ty for your input!!

[PineSong]

Cinnebuns, your plan sounds like a good start to me because you are only going to have one female. 

I have a 10g divided in half by a matten filter (this exact one, does not require cutting to size for a 10g, just stand it upright in the middle of the tank and it'll hold itself in place) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078XTRVWS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and have not noticed any movement of fry from one side to the other. I have this month's fry on one side and last month's fry on the other side, so worst case scenario if one of them was tiny enough to fit through would be they end up in another batch of the same family. 

 

 

 

[Cinnebuns]

@PineSong that looks perfect!  I'm gonna order it right away. Ty so much!!

[GameCzar]

Sounds like you are more prepared than we were!  You got this. 🙂 

[Minanora]

@GameCzar I was thinking the same thing. Haha!

Congratulations on starting your adventure! Guppies are easy to breed. I have my females separate from the males as well. Your plan is pretty solid!

I will note that females carry sperm packs for months. So even if you only have the one female, and have that ONE conjugal visit, you will likely wind up with several broods beyond that single visit, upwards of 6 batches! I have a females that are on brood 2 after being seperated from the males. Hopefully my oldest female only has a few more in her. I want her to retire.

I do recommend separating out the male and female juveniles so they're able to color up and grow quickly. If they come of age mixed, they start to focus on making more babies instead of growing.

Matten filter/filter pads are a great idea for tank dividers. I just got a large tank divider for a 20G high tank, I haven't opened it yet, but I'm sure the holes are large enough for the tiny fry to get through. For me I'm not so worried about the tiny fry so much as I am worried about juveniles coming into maturity. PLUS, dividing them gives everyone a better chance to get fed I think.

[Cinnebuns]

@Minanora I knew females could hold sperm and have many batches but for some reason I thought it was 3. You are the 3rd person in the past 2 days to tell me it's 6 so that must be it!  

 

You seem well informed so if its ok I want to make sure I understand separating fry accurately. Usually seperate them around 2 months of age correct?  Some might be late bloomers but most should show by then if I'm correct?  And keep unknowns with males until sure. 

 

Ty for your time. 

[lefty o]

its typically that they can hold for 4 batches, but ya know nature, it isnt exactly consistant.

[Minanora]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:21 PM, Cinnebuns said:

@Minanora I knew females could hold sperm and have many batches but for some reason I thought it was 3. You are the 3rd person in the past 2 days to tell me it's 6 so that must be it!  

 

You seem well informed so if its ok I want to make sure I understand separating fry accurately. Usually seperate them around 2 months of age correct?  Some might be late bloomers but most should show by then if I'm correct?  And keep unknowns with males until sure. 

 

Ty for your time. 

It is fine to try to separate them at 2 months. Feeding variety will help them develop. With a trained eye, you can honestly start separating them at around 1 month depending on if you can see the gravid spot. Females have a gravid spot that the males will lack, a dark dot at the back of the abdomen, just before, and rising from, the anal fin. I seperate mine as I can. I don't really worry too much about it though. It's something I try to enjoy rather than perfect.

On 12/28/2021 at 1:34 PM, lefty o said:

its typically that they can hold for 4 batches, but ya know nature, it isnt exactly consistant.

I will agree with this, but, under optimum conditions, with a female that is of adult size, and has been in contact with a male through 4 broods... I have experienced the 6 batch hold. Sadly the female didn't live beyond that point, so I wasn't able to confirm that 6 broods was the limit for holding. Bless her soul. After that I decided to always "retire" my ladies after they provide 2 broods. I'm actually experimenting with no exposure beyond them showing in their first pregnancy. Just to see how things go and maybe give myself some breathing room, if I'm lucky!

[Minanora]

On a side note; the divider I got for the 20G is better than i thought it would be. I'm pretty sure that babies over 2 weeks old won't fit through the top long slits. I'll be able to test it in two weeks; babies born this morning. 🤣

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

That packet of sperm will be moved aside for a new male so if you decide you’d like to breed her to a different male introducing her to them will interrupt that whole 4-6 broods from the original male.

 
I think having an extra couple females somewhere might be something to consider. You can do this later of course but as you progress you may find characteristics you like or don’t like and may want to play with ways to accentuate that trait. As you said this is your first go round and the goal is to play around with techniques and this is certainly something I’ve done a bit with my line of Blue Hawaiian Moscows - example: the females can have a black or navy tails and the LFS will not take females that are “colorless” so I’ve been changing up the breeding colony to accentuate this trait. 

I agree with everyone else on trying to keep some of your females separate so they’re not pregnant and it definitely will help as @Minanorastated to get them to focus on coloring up and growing. You will also notice some males coloring up really early. Sometimes those boys will come out smaller and less robust as they sexually matured too fast. Some breeders pull those males and may or may not cull them. I don’t know that I’ve been working too hard on this but I do sometimes pull them to tanks around the house so I can watch them and see how they’re developing color wise and in their conformation- Moscow tail, dorsal fin, etc. 

Enjoy and have fun! 

[Minanora]

On 12/29/2021 at 12:27 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

That packet of sperm will be moved aside for a new male so if you decide you’d like to breed her to a different male introducing her to them will interrupt that whole 4-6 broods from the original male.

 
I think having an extra couple females somewhere might be something to consider. You can do this later of course but as you progress you may find characteristics you like or don’t like and may want to play with ways to accentuate that trait. As you said this is your first go round and the goal is to play around with techniques and this is certainly something I’ve done a bit with my line of Blue Hawaiian Moscows - example: the females can have a black or navy tails and the LFS will not take females that are “colorless” so I’ve been changing up the breeding colony to accentuate this trait. 

I agree with everyone else on trying to keep some of your females separate so they’re not pregnant and it definitely will help as @Minanorastated to get them to focus on coloring up and growing. You will also notice some males coloring up really early. Sometimes those boys will come out smaller and less robust as they sexually matured too fast. Some breeders pull those males and may or may not cull them. I don’t know that I’ve been working too hard on this but I do sometimes pull them to tanks around the house so I can watch them and see how they’re developing color wise and in their conformation- Moscow tail, dorsal fin, etc. 

Enjoy and have fun! 

Good point surrounding changing the male. I've also read studies on brood health improving if there's more then one male. Superfecundation is the correct term in this event, I think. The female will take sperm from each to rear a single, multi-fathered brood. (Similar to how kittens in a litter can have different fathers).

@Beardedbillygoat1975Have you noticed that the ones that color up earlier display more of the wild traits? I feel like that's the case with my mutt fry. Not my single strain though. I have one male that's almost fully adult colored half black half red rose at 27 days. It's the first time I've seen one color so quickly. However he's slightly larger than the rest of the brood, just slightly. I consider him properly sized for 4 weeks, just way more color, and still has his standard anal fin. Half his body was a silky jet black at birth. The next male behind him is just starting to get yellow-brown in his tail over his slightly less jet black. I'm sure the first one will sexually mature faster but I'm going to pull him from the rest and put him with my breeding males today.

 

@CinnebunsIn any case, breeding guppies is always interesting and fun! I intentionally breed guppies, black swordtails, and Sakura orange shrimp. I look forward to seeing your breeding adventure as it progresses! The only other recommendation I have is to keep a birth calendar for the momma and a log of water parameters for each tank. Each female has a pretty consistent cycle length and tracking it will help you know when to get her situated to drop fry.

 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Minanorai noticed that with Endlers but with the line bred guppies I’ve had. Good advice on a log. Find the process goes smoother when I do vs when I don’t. 

[smoore]

@PineSong When you use a matten filter to separate the aquarium, do you need to have a sponge filter in each compartment?

 

[Cinnebuns]

@smoore I would be interested to know this too. From my limited knowledge the filter works for both sides. 

[PineSong]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:43 PM, smoore said:

@PineSong When you use a matten filter to separate the aquarium, do you need to have a sponge filter in each compartment?

 

I do not have a filter on both sides. I have a HOB on one side (just because I already had the HOB. I do baffle the flow in order to not churn the fry) and on the other side I have just an airstone.

I do not have any science to cite about the fry needing the water movement or oxygenation from having the airstone, but it just seems healthier to me to not have stagnant water and also to make the fry work at least a tiny bit with current to help them be strong.

Actually, since the matten filter provides so much surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize, I bet you don't need a sponge filter at all and would be fine with an airstone on each side. Others who know more may want to chime in on this.

[Minanora]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:54 PM, PineSong said:

I do not have a filter on both sides. I have a HOB on one side (just because I already had the HOB. I do baffle the flow in order to not churn the fry) and on the other side I have just an airstone.

I do not have any science to cite about the fry needing the water movement or oxygenation from having the airstone, but it just seems healthier to me to not have stagnant water and also to make the fry work at least a tiny bit with current to help them be strong.

Actually, since the matten filter provides so much surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize, I bet you don't need a sponge filter at all and would be fine with an airstone on each side. Others who know more may want to chime in on this.

I agree entirely! that's a huge surface area. Air is always good to add, too. I think it would be great and work quite well. I mean, unless you're insane like me and have 136+/- fry in a 20g high... Next week 68+/- of them leave, but still... I have all of these to add. 🤦‍♀️ 

Doesn't seem like it, but things are slowing down! I mean, sure there's even more fry that just arrived today loose in the female tank, but hey, what's life without a challenge?!

[smoore]

@Minanora I understand about the fry arriving before you feel ready for them.  I had my first guppy patio pond last summer and I have so many females that I brought into the house as pregnant females.   Oh my!  They were all in a 30 gallon for awhile and I have now split them up by gender, but the fry just keep coming.  Right now I have 176 in a 10 gallon tank.  I need an emoji for "guppies coming out of my ears".  LOL!🤣  Setting up new tanks to handle the grow out.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by smoore