Need help with how to anchor wood to side

[Odd Duck]

I have a 46 gallon bow front tank that I want to make into an angelfish tank and pseudo biotope.  I trying to stick to animals and plants/mosses that are at least from South America, Amazon basin ideally.  I think I’ve got that handled for the most part, although I’m still working to decide on moss(es).

My sticking point on starting the tank is how do I fasten 3 separate pieces of wood to the left side of the tank near the top/back.  My goal is to make it look like a group of washed out tree roots.  I found a couple pieces a while back and fairly recently found another piece.  All together they should work and look great if I can just figure out a good way to anchor them that won’t fail in a few months or even a few years.

I have thin slate slabs that I can fasten the wood to, but then I need to hold that up in place somehow.  I have stainless steel “S” hooks that I can bend to go through holes that I can drill in the slate, then go,over the side of the tank, but I don’t see how I’ll be able to use the glass top of the tank that I spent way too much money replacing since there wasn’t one that came with it (used tank).  I’m not in love with this top but I think twinwall would not work well on this tank.  There is no center support and the tank is awkward enough already with the narrow ends that I don’t want to replace the center brace.  I tried that and it didn’t last and made working in the tank soooooo much more challenging for the month it did last.  The tank is 36” long, which twinwall might be OK, but cutting the curve will leave long stretches of sharp, exposed edges and open channels to develop algae.  If I do my aluminum tape over the edges, then I’ve got super shiny metal showing and I’ve found the tape I got doesn’t hold quite as well as I would like it to hold.

Short of removing notches from the glass lid for the “S” hooks, I’m stuck on how else to hang the slate piece.  I don’t really want to epoxy it into place since it might need removing at some point if I ever need to catch fish out of the tank.  I do need any anchor I devise to be able to hold the wood so that the weight of the wood is NOT resting on the tips of the branches as that would lead to early collapse of the structure.  They can touch the bottom, but I don’t want significant weight resting on the bottom.  The thick bits of the wood are going to be at the top/side, not the bottom.  It’s supposed to look like the roots are still attached to the tree, not just driftwood laying there.

Any of you smart people have any ideas?  Because I’m stuck.  I need somebody to break my thinking box so I can come up with a better idea than what I have so far.  The lid won’t fit with the steel hooks on the end which I think is where the wood needs to attach.  Attaching to the back would make it much trickier to cut the bases of the wood pieces since they would need to be at a very acute angle to go flat against the slate for a secure mount and still be at the angle I want for the “roots” to hang.

These are the 2 smaller pieces in the tank, the larger piece has multiple branches and won’t lay in there until I get the plastic shelf out.  These pieces are laying in the opposite direction from where they will be eventually. The larger piece (that is not in here) has a thicker base that will likely need to be trimmed in order to make it work and the base of these pieces will likely need to be trimmed a bit to get them to the right angle once mounted.  That’s the easy part.  The mounting has my stymied.

[lefty o]

instead of epoxy, use aquarium safe silicone. put a blob or three on the wood, press and hold it to where you want it. may have to hold it for a while or use some object to hold it.

[Flumpweesel]

Is this the tank in situ? Will it be viewed from all angles?

My thoughts would be to secure either the tops of the sticks to something in the back corner (say a straight top to bottom that I can cut notches in to hold everything) or the finger ends to a  mesh under the gravel.

Hard to explain I work best when handling things but I hope that helps expand your thinking.

[Griznatch]

If the tank is still empty, and you have the time... I'd go with @lefty o's suggestion. I have used silicone to glue heavy slate to aquarium glass before with no issues. You just have to allow it time to cure. I did the whole back of a 45 bow front that way.

[Atitagain]

Ohh I hope this makes sense, I’ve been thinking on this same problem for a week because my “hanging roots” system failed it was way to heavy and not thought out well enough. So here it goes…it’s all assuming the glass lid will come apart at the bow and you would want to take it apart to use just the bowed glass and attach hinges (or not).

yellow= tank—-blue= Bowed glass lid —-black= egg crate —-purple=Twinwall—-red =plywood blocks

1)separate glass lid at bow 2) cut egg crate to fill back 3) cut twinwall to fit over egg crate 4) place plywood blocks 

this is what I came up with I’m gonna do on my 125G mines not a bow but I know it would work if you can accept the bowed glass being loose or finding a way to hinge it.

good luck mate

Also gives option to move , add, remove 

[DaveO]

How about tying the wood together in the configuration you like with aluminum craft wire. They sell it on Amazon and it even comes coated with black plastic. You could then tie the roots to your slate. 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:47 PM, lefty o said:

instead of epoxy, use aquarium safe silicone. put a blob or three on the wood, press and hold it to where you want it. may have to hold it for a while or use some object to hold it.

But doesn’t the silicone eventually fail when glued to organics?  My wood in tanks is slowly rotting.  I get brown “fluff” coming off the wood when I agitate the water or a fish does.

I’ve also done a couple vivariums with coconut fiber mat on the back and the fiber rots (slowly where dry, faster where wet) and comes loose from the silicone.  I’ve also used cork wood which holds up moderately well to moisture and it failed as well.

I know I can attach the wood to the slate with screws, I have no trouble drilling holes into the slate, even counter-sinking them so the screws won’t scratch the glass on the back side of the slate.  My issue is then how to attach the slate to the tank and still be able to lift it out to catch fish if necessary.

Thanks for the suggestions and keep your thinking cap on for me.

On 11/24/2021 at 1:56 PM, Griznatch said:

If the tank is still empty, and you have the time... I'd go with @lefty o's suggestion. I have used silicone to glue heavy slate to aquarium glass before with no issues. You just have to allow it time to cure. I did the whole back of a 45 bow front that way.

I have all the time I need to make this happen.  I haven’t gotten the fish yet because the tank is nowhere near ready.  I don’t even have the cories breeding yet and I will need the fry at least a few months old before they go in the tank.

I do need to be able to lift out the entire wood structure, even if I attach it in a couple pieces, because it never fails, at some point, I will need to catch fish out of the tank.  These branches are going to be dense enough to prevent catching anything.  Plus I’m putting in a group of unsexed, juvenile angels, which means the risk of hanky panky happening is fairly high, so I’ll need to be able to remove the other angels from the pair.

Thank you both for putting your minds to this.  It does get me thinking more but there are so many factors.  That’s part of why I’m stuck!  I can’t find a solution that solves it ALL.  I think of one thing, but then it won’t work for problem two.  Solve problem two but it won’t work for problem three.  Solve problem three but it won’t work for problem one.  🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:11 PM, Atitagain said:

Ohh I hope this makes sense, I’ve been thinking on this same problem for a week because my “hanging roots” system failed it was way to heavy and not thought out well enough. So here it goes…it’s all assuming the glass lid will come apart at the bow and you would want to take it apart to use just the bowed glass and attach hinges (or not).

yellow= tank—-blue= Bowed glass lid —-black= egg crate —-purple=Twinwall—-red =plywood blocks

1)separate glass lid at bow 2) cut egg crate to fill back 3) cut twinwall to fit over egg crate 4) place plywood blocks 

this is what I came up with I’m gonna do on my 125G mines not a bow but I know it would work if you can accept the bowed glass being loose or finding a way to hinge it.

good luck mate

It does come apart at the “bow” but I don’t think I’ll be able to attach the hinge to anything else.  Twinwall is too thick and egg crate even thicker.  Loose, the stupid thing would be downright dangerous since it’s pretty heavy glass.  I’d have to remove it to do anything in the tank, even anything other than the quickest feed and with 3 very different species, it’s not ever going to be a “quick” feed.  If I separate it I guarantee I’ll drop it in the tank at least weekly since the bow part of the glass is not quite 2 1/8” at the ends.

I wasn’t thinking about attaching to the lid when I picked the wood, so it doesn’t curve the right direction.

Why do I do this to myself?  The idea is so simple and I have a clear vision in my head on how I want it to look, but the answer is going to be a pain in my rear, I think!  I think I’m going to have to sand notches in the glass lid.  🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️  Even with coarse sanding drums that’s going to take stupid long!  I’m going to need that luck!

I need to let this churn in my little brain for a while longer and get ready for work now.  Overnight at the ER for holidays is often far too interesting.

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:18 PM, DaveO said:

How about tying the wood together in the configuration you like with aluminum craft wire. They sell it on Amazon and it even comes coated with black plastic. You could then tie the roots to your slate. 

It’s not the fastening TO the slate that’s the main issue.  It’s the securing the slate to the tank but still being removable that I can’t figure out.  This is going to drive me crazy!  I do like the aluminum craft wire coated with black plastic idea, though.  Maybe after it churns in my brain a bit more something will start to gel.

Please, everybody, keep the ideas coming!  I need all the help I can get!

Secure but not permanent is what I’m looking for.  I can drill the slate easily and stainless screws into the wood are tentatively planned since I know I can make that secure.  I’ll be cutting fresh ends to get into solid wood and get the pieces at the angles I want.

I can also cut the slate into smaller pieces to make it more easily removable, but would prefer to keep all the wood attached to one piece so it’s more stable.  At least I think one piece would be better.  When I go to actually MAKE the structure that may be too ungainly to work in the wacky bow front.  🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️  Why did I buy a bow front again?  Oh, yeah, desperately needed space for Jack Dempsey fry. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[Brandon p]

This is not going to help much,but i saw this on youtube. I can't remember who but i think it was the diy guy or some like that

[Odd Duck]

@Brandon p Saw what?  Did you mean to link a video?

[DaveO]

If you can find good sturdy suction cups that don't fail you could secure the wood to them. The trick would be finding good suction cups that will stay put to the glass.

[Brandon p]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:51 PM, Odd Duck said:

@Brandon p Saw what?  Did you mean to link a video?

I saw the video, no link that's why i said it would not help much. I'm going to look now to find the  video and link

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 3:52 PM, DaveO said:

If you can find good sturdy suction cups that don't fail you could secure the wood to them. The trick would be finding good suction cups that will stay put to the glass.

Always the trick with suction cups.  They always fail in 3-12 months, usually 3-6 months, and the more weight is attached the quicker they fail.

On 11/24/2021 at 3:54 PM, Brandon p said:

I saw the video, no link that's why i said it would not help much. I'm going to look now to find the  video and link

Gotcha!  It would be great if you could find that video and link it!

[Atitagain]

Alright I’ll try again

Yellow= tank

Red= 1 1/4x 3/4 acrylic strips glued together then 2”-ish down from top to inside side wall glass

Black cross hatching= slate

Green= screwed branches

[Odd Duck]

Here’s a pic of the tank with all the would crammed in and at least oriented the direction it will go.  It’s nowhere near its final position, but at least big ends all together and “facing” the right way.  A large chunk of the big piece at the left will probably be gone since I think it’s making the overall piece too big.  I’ll have to see once I can work with the pieces more.  For today, I just shoved them in to help with visualizing.

Picture it:  wood kind of cascading/arching across and down so some of the tips rest in the substrate.  Big Amazon sword on the right side, smaller, assorted color varieties scattered throughout with some close to the tips of wood like they broke away fro the mother plant and snagged on the wood at the substrate.  Moss all over the wood, type still to be determined.

The wood will likely be attached to the slate piece at the top left.  How the slate is held in place securely but is still removable is the hang up I’ve got.  Here’s the ideas I’ve had and that have been proposed that I think might be feasible.

1. Holes drilled in the slate to secure the wood with screws (easy part) and stainless steel hooks shaped to keep the slate as flat as possible to the glass at the top.  The weight of the wood will keep the bottom of the slate against the glass.  This would require sanding notches into the glass lid in 2 spots to allow the hooks over the rim of the tank.

2. Hang the slate to the back instead of the end - MUCH easier to hang the slate, much harder to position the wood and cut the bases at a long angle to get them positioned just right to secure to the slate.  Not impossible, just trickier.

3. Attach wood (no slate needed) to a new top of egg crate that takes the place of the back piece of the glass top.  Also difficult to position the wood just right without getting all new wood since the wood was selected with a different hanging angle in mind.  Would also make using the front, curved part of the glass very difficult.

4. Silicone the slate to the glass after attaching the wood.  This is kind of out since I need the wood to be removable.

5. Suction cups in any configuration - out due to very high failure rate of suction cups.  That’s just gotta be a no for me.

I’ll think of others, but so far this is what I’ve got.  Maybe after I sleep on all these ideas for a couple days something will spark.  I appreciate everybody’s input and would love to see more ideas!

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:11 PM, Atitagain said:

Alright I’ll try again

Yellow= tank

Red= 1 1/4x 3/4 acrylic strips glued together then 2”-ish down from top to inside side wall glass

Black cross hatching= slate

Green= screwed branches

Like this?

Edit: by glued to glass I meant the acrylic strips not the slate.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Odd Duck

[Brandon p]

you don't want the roots to touch the bottom right?

[Brandon p]

I have an idea buy I want to try it in a.m. and then show it. I'm still look for the video

[Gator]

@Odd Duck; There is a two-part epoxy that is a putty used to stick Coral frags to rocks for marine aquariums, this epoxy works underwater. If your LFS sells marine fish, plants, and corals, they probably have this, but why would you want to glue wood to the side of your tank? Angelfish will lay eggs just about anywhere they choose, if they chose a leaf on your Amazon sword, it would be easy to cut the leaf and move the leaf to another tank for hatching to keep the parents from eating the eggs, you wouldn't be able to do this if they lay eggs on the wood and the wood is glued to the glass.

[Atitagain]

@Odd Duck yes with the strips of acrylic glued to glass and was thinking to if you glued the side pieces on then the front cross piece could be screwed to side pieces. This would make removal a lot easier. But screws would be exposed, should be able to figure a way to hide them if needed.

[dasaltemelosguy]

I'm not sure this would work for you but just in case it might, I've done this in tanks I want to be able to disassemble easily.

I use neodymium magnets to hold ornaments and equipment to the glass, through the glass without a mount or gluing. I've used them to mount backgrounds to the rear of the tank without glue or hardware. It anchors it tightly but it can be snapped on and off.

I've also drilled a hole in driftwood and glued a neodymium magnet into the wood and mounted the driftwood from the top. It's snaps on and off easily.

I don't have any images of it in use as the magnets are behind the wood/rocks and the tank but essentially, it's not unlike in the images below. 

It works best with two magnets, one on the outside of the glass and the other on the piece you wish to secure. They are very inexpensive and are available with a waterproof coating and tolerate extreme temperatures and caustic chemicals. This is a typical pair of magnets:

A saltwater/drinking water safe epoxy could be used to glue the neodymium magnet on the slate or wood, the magnet on the outside of the glass or lid will hold almost anything, and the rocks would just 'snap' into place when the two are aligned and be removable easily when needed. Or rocks could be stacked and 'attached' to each other via the magnets glued on each rock. Like a big, magnetic Lego. 

WATERWELD™ EPOXY PUTTY

They work best by placing the inner magnet where you want it in the tank and sliding the outer one over it to "mount' it.

These are seriously strong magnets so you'll want to slide them vs trying to place them by hand as they'll just yank themselves out of your hand!

But they are available to hold almost any weight. This is a pair of neodymium's mounting an Aqueon HOB to a 29G tank side:

I use them to hold HOB's, hoses, filters, heaters, anything I want to mount that needs to be easily removable. 

Naturally the thicker the glass, the weaker the mount but it's very much predictable and you can easily select the right magnet to hold a given weight: Glass Thickness vs Magnet Size

For example;

N52 is the magnet strength.

Diameter

and

Thickness of the magnet here is 1" x 1", or the size of the magnet,

Distance is the glass thickness and two of these magnets will mount over 14lbs through 1/2" thick glass:

And of course, the weight is less under water so it'll hold even heavier rocks than 14lbs in this case.

Not sure how useful this is but I thought I'd mention it just in case it would work for your situation!

[Atitagain]

@dasaltemelosguy I’m loving the magnet idea. I will research a lil but I think they could definitely solve my problems with hanging roots and @Odd Duckmaybe as well. I think only problem would be long term deterioration of the driftwood the magnet glued to it may become a weak bond?

thank you 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 4:53 PM, Brandon p said:

you don't want the roots to touch the bottom right?

I’m fine with the tips of the roots touching the bottom.  I don’t want a lot of weight on the root tips since that will lead to early failure of the structure or at least that branch.

[Odd Duck]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:32 PM, Gator said:

@Odd Duck; There is a two-part epoxy that is a putty used to stick Coral frags to rocks for marine aquariums, this epoxy works underwater. If your LFS sells marine fish, plants, and corals, they probably have this, but why would you want to glue wood to the side of your tank? Angelfish will lay eggs just about anywhere they choose, if they chose a leaf on your Amazon sword, it would be easy to cut the leaf and move the leaf to another tank for hatching to keep the parents from eating the eggs, you wouldn't be able to do this if they lay eggs on the wood and the wood is glued to the glass.

I don’t want to glue wood to the side of my tank, that’s the whole point.  What I do want is to have the visual effect of the wood arching downward like they are tree roots at the margin of the river with the mud washed away from around them.

I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out how I can attach the slate piece to the tank WITHOUT gluing anything to the actual tank.  I must be able to remove the slate piece (or whatever) that is holding the wood (and the wood) so I can catch fish out of the tank if needed.

So far I haven’t come up with any method I really like for a sturdy, but NON-permanent attachment.

On 11/24/2021 at 5:32 PM, Atitagain said:

@Odd Duck yes with the strips of acrylic glued to glass and was thinking to if you glued the side pieces on then the front cross piece could be screwed to side pieces. This would make removal a lot easier. But screws would be exposed, should be able to figure a way to hide them if needed.

Plants hide things very well.  I intend to use some grassy looking plants to hide the anchor point of the structure anyway, so the illusion of streambed margin is better.  I’m just not sure anchoring from this direction is going to get the wood arching in the right direction,

Good ideas, though.  I might be able to build from this core idea.