Tom H Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 How old do endler fry need to be to determine the sex? I have yellow tiger endlers I'm trying to sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom H Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 You're absolutely correct! I'm trying to figure out about how many weeks/months old that would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppysnail Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 4-6 weeks you should be able to see a gonopodium 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom H Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 4:10 AM, Guppysnail said: 4-6 weeks you should be able to see a gonopodium Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Getting to the point I can tell fish apart by more than just color but still learning. Appreciate it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppysnail Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 6:24 AM, Tom H said: Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Getting to the point I can tell fish apart by more than just color but still learning. Appreciate it! After a few batches you can start to tell sooner by behavior but it took me awhile to get to that point 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMYVET Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I think I need a cold shower after reading this post.....all this sex talk....eeesh😱 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 It might take longer than 6 weeks and you have to be careful as endlers are one of those species that er appear to change sex over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 7:52 AM, anewbie said: endlers are one of those species that er appear to change sex over time I was wondering if I was imagining that. I have 3 tanks that I swear I only put females in..... Yet all 3 have now had immaculate conception births. I seem to be having slightly better luck with putting obvious male endlers in with my zebra danio F4 grow out tank. However, the danios are **not** a fan of the gonopodiums😅 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewbie Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Well. @Torrey .. there is another explanation that is more likely. Guppies and Endlers can 'hold' sperm for quite a while; I think 6+ months so if the females have been near a male such as in the store where purchased.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabby Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 I can usually sex endlers and guppies from 6-8 weeks using the start of the small gravid spots in females, but it’s iffy business. Colour develops around 10 weeks in my experience. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGenusCaps Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 8:52 AM, anewbie said: endlers are one of those species that er appear to change sex over time Endler's are known to have what are sometimes termed "sneaker males" - though I've not seen that term used with this species directly. These are males that look like young/small females, except lacking a gonopodium. They drive breeders nuts because they pass on these colorless traits. I'm not sure they are true sneaker males, as I don't know if they fool the dominant males or just people. I was warned about this when I got my N-Class strain from the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 On 9/21/2021 at 5:04 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said: I was warned about this when I got my N-Class strain from the breeder. I was told that breeding in vicinity of predators, within 4 - 6 generations the males would lose color. Not an albino, just melanin/chromatome (it's late, I may have the wrong words/terms) gene expression would turn off. Sounded like a cool experiment to check out with so-called "mutt feeder guppies".... fast forward 18 months of quarantine, and all the generations of feeder fish in the turtle pond are supporting this theory. I pull out ~30 fish, put in a qt, dose for potential parasites, because pond, and wait a few weeks to see how everyone is doing. While in QT, pull any fish that develops a gonopodium, and place in a male tank. Catch any fry, and return to turtle pond to be sorted later. Separate gravid females and put on other side of divider. 6 definite females, after 5 weeks, excluding the 4 gravid females. I put the 6 [theoretically] virgin females in the 4' tank in my spouse's room..... 4 hours later, we have 12 fish. Obviously, I didn't always get the males separated fast enough. No biggie, right? Except 4 weeks later, I only have 3 females, 3 VERY OBVIOUS MALES, 6 fry a month old, and 30 new tiny fry..... I'm ready to give up on sexing..... Spouse is super attached, and doesn't want to get rid of any of the babies, and doesn't want a birth control species (aka schooling fish that will consume fry). Okay. Yesterday, the visual reality of the exponential growth of guppies sank in..... BTW: 2nd generation born out of colorless pairings? All the males look like wild caught endlers....😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriBri Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Hi all I’m new here, just breeding my first endlers and taking as many notes as I can to improve knowledge and care. On Nov 10th I was gifted 4 fry, and documented initial colouration and gonopodium flexing a few days ago (precisely 25 days / 3.5 weeks) in one of of my young males, and no colouration but gonopodium development and flexing in the other - A sneaker male as I learned from this string! Meanwhile the two assumed females do appear to have gravid spots, and have started to hang out with the tank sorority and avoiding the males. This is all quite a bit earlier than the others are reporting here - so just thought to chime in. I’m also starting to wonder how much time I have left now before those males might be able to breed with their sisters if I don’t interfere, if anyone wants to hazard a guess at fertility age based on their “puberty” at 25 days. I’m lastly curious about possible sex changes over time - reading here is the first I’ve ever heard. Would love to know more if anyone wants to share their observations. Thanks kindly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineSong Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 I've bred Endlers and guppies for a couple of years now, and the strains I have raised have shown gonopodium development or coloration as early as yours--I think that is due to variations in strains, because a breeder I watch on YT (Kaimuki Backyard) has easily sexed guppies at 2 months, due to the coloration in his strain. I usually don't rule out that some of my 'females' might actually be males for at least 4-5 months. As for 'sneaker' males, I have had swordtail and platy 'females' develop into males as late as 8 months, but I'm not sure about my guppies and Endlers. I've never seen a fish that looks fully female (has a gravid spot) turn into a male in my tanks. I do have "male-ish?" guppies that develop male coloration but no gonopodium and no gravid spot and do not get pregnant in a tank of all males. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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