Freshwater shrimp, snails

[MNG]

65 gallon planted tank, ph neutral, ammonia and nitrites under control - tank is a month old and stable: Don't want to add any more fish.

But wouldn't mind some shrimp or snails to add interest.

What shrimp or snails would you recommend in my case? What is the ammonia/nitrite footprint for such creatures? Do they harbor parasites, disease, etc? 

 

Tnx!

[Hobbit]

From what I understand, shrimp add almost nothing to the bio load. They can harbor disease that they spread among themselves, but I have never heard of anything they can pass to fish.

What fish do you have?

[MNG]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:44 PM, Hobbit said:

What fish do you have?

Rams, angels, black neons, blue gouramis, red tail sharks, cory's.

[Solstice_Lacer]

Cherry shrimp and other dwarf shrimp (neocaridina) are awesome and add almost no bio load. They can have their own diseases but are generally considered hardy. I might worry about them with your larger/bolder fish, unless they have a lot of hiding places, but I've personally never kept them together so I can't comment first hand. Amano shrimp have similar care and are slightly bigger (and better at algae eating). But they can't breed in freshwater like cherry shrimp.

Bamboo shrimp/wood shrimp are considerably bigger and are filter feeders rather than bottom scavengers. They need a decent water flow and places to sit where they won't get picked on. And they need higher temps (above 75 F) than the other shrimp mentioned.

Mystery snails, nerite snails, Ramshorn snails, trumpet snails are all pretty commonly kept. Mystery snails are arguably the most "pet like" but do the least cleaning for the amount of waste they produce. The others eat more algae and have less bio load. People do have stories of snails breeding out of control.

There's assassin snails to prevent such things, but they shouldn't be mixed unless you're really overrun with other snails. Assassin snails kill and eat other snails. But they can be fed a protien bottom feeder food if you want to keep them as cool pets with no other snails. They won't hurt fish or shrimp from my understanding/ experience (unless the snail is particularly ornery or the thing it ate was already weak/sick/dead).

There's also fish that eat snails but you said you don't want any more fish.

[MNG]

I

On 8/8/2021 at 3:37 PM, Solstice_Lacer said:

Cherry shrimp and other dwarf shrimp (neocaridina) are awesome and add almost no bio load. They can have their own diseases but are generally considered hardy. I might worry about them with your larger/bolder fish, unless they have a lot of hiding places, but I've personally never kept them together so I can't comment first hand....

I like the idea of cherry shrimp, etc. None of my fish are very bold AFAIK,  so I will look further into those shrimp. Any recommendations on where to get them ( I am North East USA)

Tnx

[Solstice_Lacer]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:43 PM, MNG said:

I

I like the idea of cherry shrimp, etc. None of my fish are very bold AFAIK,  so I will look further into those shrimp. Any recommendations on where to get them ( I am North East USA)

Tnx

A lot of local fish stores have standard red cherry shrimp. If you want a different color (blue, green, orange) you might have to look online. They will have the same care requirements if they are neocaridina davidi, they are just selectively bred for different color lines. 

[lefty o]

nerite snails are the good ones to get if you dont want a population explosion. they lay eggs, but they dont hatch without saltwater.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:37 PM, Solstice_Lacer said:

Cherry shrimp and other dwarf shrimp (neocaridina) are awesome and add almost no bio load. They can have their own diseases but are generally considered hardy. I might worry about them with your larger/bolder fish, unless they have a lot of hiding places, but I've personally never kept them together so I can't comment first hand. Amano shrimp have similar care and are slightly bigger (and better at algae eating). But they can't breed in freshwater like cherry shrimp.

Bamboo shrimp/wood shrimp are considerably bigger and are filter feeders rather than bottom scavengers. They need a decent water flow and places to sit where they won't get picked on. And they need higher temps (above 75 F) than the other shrimp mentioned.

Mystery snails, nerite snails, Ramshorn snails, trumpet snails are all pretty commonly kept. Mystery snails are arguably the most "pet like" but do the least cleaning for the amount of waste they produce. The others eat more algae and have less bio load. People do have stories of snails breeding out of control.

There's assassin snails to prevent such things, but they shouldn't be mixed unless you're really overrun with other snails. Assassin snails kill and eat other snails. But they can be fed a protien bottom feeder food if you want to keep them as cool pets with no other snails. They won't hurt fish or shrimp from my understanding/ experience (unless the snail is particularly ornery or the thing it ate was already weak/sick/dead).

There's also fish that eat snails but you said you don't want any more fish.

This is a great overview! If you don’t already have some being a newer tank I would throw in some driftwood and almond leaves to start growing all the yummy biofilm your new critters will want to eat 😁

[CalmedByFish]

Neocaridina are generally considered the hardiest shrimp for a beginner to try. I've even heard red cherry are the hardiest of the neocaridina. But I'd suggest starting them in a different tank to let the population build up before putting them with your fish. (Or buy a ton in the first place.) A lot of fish eat baby shrimp, so even when you do put them in, they'll need a lot of hiding places.

For snails, consider what task you might want them to do. Different species tend to eat different things. Malaysian trumpet snails are good for eating poo. Ramshorns plow through flat algae. And some species tend to escape, so that's a detail to look at, too.

[AlgaeIsYum]

Larger fish from aggressive families like cichlids and gouramis can attack/harass snails and shrimp. Whenever there's a risk like that I like to have a plan B before getting them. This usually is getting a small number to test out first and having another safe tank I can move them to if it doesn't work out. You can also ask your fish store if they'll take them back if it turns out they won't work out.

The bioload of shrimp is definitely lower than fish. I've read around 5-10 for an equal length fish but that's mostly guesswork. Snails vary a bit, apple snails like mysteries tend to get fairly large and can have larger bioloads but still less than a similar sized fish.

Typically pH isn't overly important but keeping snails is one situation where it can be. Their shells are mostly made of calcium carbonate which tends to start dissolving at <7.6 pH in home aquarium environments. Any pH neutral and above is fine but below that and they can run in to serious shell erosion problems. I know a lot of people like to keep angels in more acidic water so you'll want to think about that if you want snails.

If you do want snails @CalmedByFish advice on thinking about what you want the snails for is the best way to go. They all tend to suit different needs for a tank.

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:59 AM, AlgaeIsYum said:

I know a lot of people like to keep angels in more acidic water so you'll want to think about that if you want snails.

FWIW, my angel has been in pH 7.8 for over 4 years. I'm not an expert on what's ideal for them, but it's working fine, so I'm guessing it'd be fine for a lot of angels.

But yeah, snail shells definitely should be at a pH of 7+, and have at least moderately hard water, plus Ca in their diet. Same for shrimp, for their exoskeleton.

Edited August 9, 2021 by CalmedByFish

[JettsPapa]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:02 PM, MNG said:

Rams, angels, black neons, blue gouramis, red tail sharks, cory's.

I haven't kept rams or red tail sharks, but I do know that gouramis and angels consider even adult neocaridina shrimp a food source.  If you have adequate hiding places some of them might survive, but you will rarely see them.

[MNG]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:35 PM, JettsPapa said:

I haven't kept rams or red tail sharks, but I do know that gouramis and angels consider even adult neocaridina shrimp a food source.  

Yes, others have also mentioned that.

Tnx!